Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by buckguy »

veteran+ wrote: August 11th, 2022, 8:49 am
Alpha8472 wrote: August 11th, 2022, 12:32 am San Francisco blames Walgreens for filling opioid prescriptions and claims that Walgreens was encouraging drug abuse.

Now San Francisco is talking about opening official safe injection sites so that drug users can use drugs in a safe supervised environment. Is this not encouraging drug abuse?

The Tenderloin Center run by the city had a fenced in patio obscured by tarps where addicts were allowed to use drugs. It was a safe consumption site in violation of state and federal laws.
Actually, no, it does not encourage drug abuse. There have been many studies on this.
This issue and the research have been revisited repeatedly in the various court fights to establish these programs elsewhere. The road to injection is way more complicated than the presence of safe injection sites, The sites themselves provide wrap around services including referral to treatment. The Tenderloin isn't exactly a new destination for heavy drug use.
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

Alpha8472 wrote: August 11th, 2022, 9:50 am San Francisco has a very negative view among many people today. These safe injection sites might draw more drug users to the city and there probably won't be room for every drug user. The city is dealing with a migration of drug users from all over the state and even the rest of the country due to San Francisco's policies.
I still think making a deal to convert the closed Walgreens locations into safe injection sites is a great idea. As Walgreens closes more and more stores they could have 20+ of these around the city before long.

San Francisco should go ahead and plunge ahead with this program. It is fast becoming the next Oakland from a commercial and crime standpoint. That is something to be proud of, I guess?
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by veteran+ »

States with the Biggest Drug Problems (a per capita measurement)

1. Missouri 11. Vermont
2. West Virginia 12. Delaware
3. Michigan 13. Oregon
4. District of Columbia 14. Connecticut
5. New Hampshire 15. Massachusetts
6. New Mexico 16. Rhode Island
7. Colorado 17. Kentucky
8. Arkansas 18. Arizona
9. Nevada 19. Tennessee
10. Indiana 20. Montana
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: August 13th, 2022, 9:02 am States with the Biggest Drug Problems (a per capita measurement)

1. Missouri 11. Vermont
2. West Virginia 12. Delaware
3. Michigan 13. Oregon
4. District of Columbia 14. Connecticut
5. New Hampshire 15. Massachusetts
6. New Mexico 16. Rhode Island
7. Colorado 17. Kentucky
8. Arkansas 18. Arizona
9. Nevada 19. Tennessee
10. Indiana 20. Montana
That list seems to unfairly hit smaller states. Almost every tiny eastern state is on it, along with the not so populated large land masses (like MT). These types of lists are pretty worthless. Let's see it broken down better, like per capita drug use within a specific section of San Francisco. Of course, nobody will measure that. The number would be so far off the charts.
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by veteran+ »

It is a more realistic measurement when it is per capita instead of these hyperbolic over reported end of the world scenarios that focuses on the usual suspects (blue city sodom and gomorrah).
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: August 13th, 2022, 11:23 am It is a more realistic measurement when it is per capita instead of these hyperbolic over reported end of the world scenarios that focuses on the usual suspects (blue city sodom and gomorrah).
The issue is more the impact it has on the people who live in a given place. Even if some manipulated statistic (in this case, using per capita) makes you feel like somehow this is a bigger problem in those little small states back east or the big not dense states elsewhere, the impact this has on the overall environment is different in those places than it is in San Francisco (or Portland...). The problem in places like San Francisco is that this problem is so pervasive that it IS impacting just about everyone who lives in these cities because the side effects caused by this problem, is causing large sections of the city to turn into an unlivable situation. This is a retail thread. Stores are closing in San Francisco because of this problem. I don't see chain retailers closing this number of stores in MT, VT, CT, WV, MI, NH, or any other state on that list because of the circumstances stores are being closed in San Francisco for... people are leaving the big cities. We can place the blame on whatever we want but people are leaving these big cities, retailers are leaving, tourists are not coming back as often, and the convention business has dried up. It is fine if you don't want to blame the leadership of these cities (in this case, elected officials, primarily affiliated with a specific political party) for what is happening, maybe they just got dealt a bad deck of cards, you know, like a good store manager who gets moved to a store with a terrible crew, I guess. But that good store manager should be able to at least stem the declines to a degree even with a terrible crew, over time; through attrition and trying to mend the situation to improve the existing crew. But these big cities are just getting worse and worse... and EVERY store closure just pushes the decline further.
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by lake52 »

storewanderer wrote: August 13th, 2022, 1:43 pm
veteran+ wrote: August 13th, 2022, 11:23 am It is a more realistic measurement when it is per capita instead of these hyperbolic over reported end of the world scenarios that focuses on the usual suspects (blue city sodom and gomorrah).
The issue is more the impact it has on the people who live in a given place. Even if some manipulated statistic (in this case, using per capita) makes you feel like somehow this is a bigger problem in those little small states back east or the big not dense states elsewhere, the impact this has on the overall environment is different in those places than it is in San Francisco (or Portland...). The problem in places like San Francisco is that this problem is so pervasive that it IS impacting just about everyone who lives in these cities because the side effects caused by this problem, is causing large sections of the city to turn into an unlivable situation. This is a retail thread. Stores are closing in San Francisco because of this problem. I don't see chain retailers closing this number of stores in MT, VT, CT, WV, MI, NH, or any other state on that list because of the circumstances stores are being closed in San Francisco for... people are leaving the big cities. We can place the blame on whatever we want but people are leaving these big cities, retailers are leaving, tourists are not coming back as often, and the convention business has dried up. It is fine if you don't want to blame the leadership of these cities (in this case, elected officials, primarily affiliated with a specific political party) for what is happening, maybe they just got dealt a bad deck of cards, you know, like a good store manager who gets moved to a store with a terrible crew, I guess. But that good store manager should be able to at least stem the declines to a degree even with a terrible crew, over time; through attrition and trying to mend the situation to improve the existing crew. But these big cities are just getting worse and worse... and EVERY store closure just pushes the decline further.
Quite frankly, you aren’t seeing these store closures in states like Montana, Kentucky, Vermont, West Virginia, etc, because they were never open in the first place.

Walgreens has more stores in San Francisco than the entire state of Montana. Montana has a slightly larger population. Target has 13 stores in the entire state of Kentucky, SF and Daly City have a combined 7 stores and a quarter of the population. Safeway has more stores within the San Francisco city limits than Food Lion does in the entire state of West Virginia.

The density of retail stores in large cities is not sustainable due to online convenience, real estate prices, labor rates, supply chain issues, and a whole other multitude of issues, including shrink. Shrink has a part in the laundry list of reasons why Walgreens and other chains are shrinking but maintaining their large presence in these cities.

I’d also quickly point out that if a Walgreens closes in a town of 4,000 people in Kentucky, the likelihood of anyone other than the local paper (if it’s still around) reporting on it, is incredibly low. Doesn’t fit the narrative.
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

lake52 wrote: August 13th, 2022, 6:02 pm

Quite frankly, you aren’t seeing these store closures in states like Montana, Kentucky, Vermont, West Virginia, etc, because they were never open in the first place.

Walgreens has more stores in San Francisco than the entire state of Montana. Montana has a slightly larger population. Target has 13 stores in the entire state of Kentucky, SF and Daly City have a combined 7 stores and a quarter of the population. Safeway has more stores within the San Francisco city limits than Food Lion does in the entire state of West Virginia.

The density of retail stores in large cities is not sustainable due to online convenience, real estate prices, labor rates, supply chain issues, and a whole other multitude of issues, including shrink. Shrink has a part in the laundry list of reasons why Walgreens and other chains are shrinking but maintaining their large presence in these cities.

I’d also quickly point out that if a Walgreens closes in a town of 4,000 people in Kentucky, the likelihood of anyone other than the local paper (if it’s still around) reporting on it, is incredibly low. Doesn’t fit the narrative.
Oh, I'd let everyone here know if a Walgreens closed in a random small town in Kentucky.

Look, what is happening in San Francisco at retail stores, is not normal. This is not happening elsewhere in the country. This is not even happening in Oakland (to this extent). Having thieves go into Walgreens and go behind the counter and become aggressive and physically fight with other customers/employees on a regular basis is not normal. Having multiple (3 of the 4 in town) Target Stores only open 9 AM to 6 PM every day is not normal. Having all (yes ALL) of the toothpaste, OTC medicine, even fabric softener sheets locked up in said Target Stores is not normal. Have you been to that Mission Street Target in the past six months or so? Have you see what it looks like in there? Folsom Street is the same way. Stonestown which is open 9 AM to 8 PM has fewer issues but it is also rapidly becoming like the others.

The "narrative" you describe is basically a cry for help from the rest of the country. San Francisco: get control over this problem before it spreads out of there to more and more places. If this spreads, self service retail as we know it in this country is history.
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by lake52 »

storewanderer wrote: August 14th, 2022, 1:13 am
lake52 wrote: August 13th, 2022, 6:02 pm

Quite frankly, you aren’t seeing these store closures in states like Montana, Kentucky, Vermont, West Virginia, etc, because they were never open in the first place.

Walgreens has more stores in San Francisco than the entire state of Montana. Montana has a slightly larger population. Target has 13 stores in the entire state of Kentucky, SF and Daly City have a combined 7 stores and a quarter of the population. Safeway has more stores within the San Francisco city limits than Food Lion does in the entire state of West Virginia.

The density of retail stores in large cities is not sustainable due to online convenience, real estate prices, labor rates, supply chain issues, and a whole other multitude of issues, including shrink. Shrink has a part in the laundry list of reasons why Walgreens and other chains are shrinking but maintaining their large presence in these cities.

I’d also quickly point out that if a Walgreens closes in a town of 4,000 people in Kentucky, the likelihood of anyone other than the local paper (if it’s still around) reporting on it, is incredibly low. Doesn’t fit the narrative.
Oh, I'd let everyone here know if a Walgreens closed in a random small town in Kentucky.

Look, what is happening in San Francisco at retail stores, is not normal. This is not happening elsewhere in the country. This is not even happening in Oakland (to this extent). Having thieves go into Walgreens and go behind the counter and become aggressive and physically fight with other customers/employees on a regular basis is not normal. Having multiple (3 of the 4 in town) Target Stores only open 9 AM to 6 PM every day is not normal. Having all (yes ALL) of the toothpaste, OTC medicine, even fabric softener sheets locked up in said Target Stores is not normal. Have you been to that Mission Street Target in the past six months or so? Have you see what it looks like in there? Folsom Street is the same way. Stonestown which is open 9 AM to 8 PM has fewer issues but it is also rapidly becoming like the others.

The "narrative" you describe is basically a cry for help from the rest of the country. San Francisco: get control over this problem before it spreads out of there to more and more places. If this spreads, self service retail as we know it in this country is history.
Walgreens closed at least two stores in Kentucky in 2022 (Liberty and Lexington). Along with countless others in years prior.

Please direct me to the post
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Re: Walgreens Closures Continue in San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

lake52 wrote: August 14th, 2022, 1:42 am
storewanderer wrote: August 14th, 2022, 1:13 am
lake52 wrote: August 13th, 2022, 6:02 pm

Quite frankly, you aren’t seeing these store closures in states like Montana, Kentucky, Vermont, West Virginia, etc, because they were never open in the first place.

Walgreens has more stores in San Francisco than the entire state of Montana. Montana has a slightly larger population. Target has 13 stores in the entire state of Kentucky, SF and Daly City have a combined 7 stores and a quarter of the population. Safeway has more stores within the San Francisco city limits than Food Lion does in the entire state of West Virginia.

The density of retail stores in large cities is not sustainable due to online convenience, real estate prices, labor rates, supply chain issues, and a whole other multitude of issues, including shrink. Shrink has a part in the laundry list of reasons why Walgreens and other chains are shrinking but maintaining their large presence in these cities.

I’d also quickly point out that if a Walgreens closes in a town of 4,000 people in Kentucky, the likelihood of anyone other than the local paper (if it’s still around) reporting on it, is incredibly low. Doesn’t fit the narrative.
Oh, I'd let everyone here know if a Walgreens closed in a random small town in Kentucky.

Look, what is happening in San Francisco at retail stores, is not normal. This is not happening elsewhere in the country. This is not even happening in Oakland (to this extent). Having thieves go into Walgreens and go behind the counter and become aggressive and physically fight with other customers/employees on a regular basis is not normal. Having multiple (3 of the 4 in town) Target Stores only open 9 AM to 6 PM every day is not normal. Having all (yes ALL) of the toothpaste, OTC medicine, even fabric softener sheets locked up in said Target Stores is not normal. Have you been to that Mission Street Target in the past six months or so? Have you see what it looks like in there? Folsom Street is the same way. Stonestown which is open 9 AM to 8 PM has fewer issues but it is also rapidly becoming like the others.

The "narrative" you describe is basically a cry for help from the rest of the country. San Francisco: get control over this problem before it spreads out of there to more and more places. If this spreads, self service retail as we know it in this country is history.
Walgreens closed at least two stores in Kentucky in 2022 (Liberty and Lexington). Along with countless others in years prior.

Please direct me to the post
There has been nothing that says these stores in KY closed due to high theft or other dangerous conditions for customers/employees. Liberty appears to be one of the hundreds of former Rite Aids they have closed in a town of 2k people and there have been many Rite Aid overlap related closures in Lexington. It is no secret the stores they bought from Rite Aid were underperforming- flat out lack of customers.

The closures in San Francisco are a far different situation. A few of the San Francisco closures are obviously due to a lack of customers like the Financial District one somewhat recently but that isn't the case for the majority of them. But lake: you know San Francisco and you know most of these San Francisco stores and the areas they are in and the density of people in the areas. You are well aware these locations have a history of high customer traffic and high volumes for decades. You know most of these San Francisco stores aren't closing due to a lack of customer traffic.

Have you actually been into any of these stores in the past couple years? The situation has deteriorated significantly for retail chain stores in San Francisco in the past two years. Basically the second COVID started and the office workers and tourists disappeared...

Also have you reviewed feedback of customers of these Target and Walgreens Stores in San Francisco and learned what they think of everything being locked up and shorter hours of operation? I am going to tell you what they think- they hate it. They dread going to the stores due to the situation. They are favoring ordering online (not necessarily from these two retailers) and losing even more paying customers will only speed up the downward spiral of these stores.

The whole thing about being in the city is everything being close together/very walkable. As more stores close, things aren't so walkable anymore. Life in the city deteriorates. Residents get upset and leaving (joining all the office workers who no longer come around 5 days a week anymore) too which again just fuels the downward spiral. Many middle US cities fell victim to this in the 70's and 80's and emptied out. San Francisco has a lot more going for it than many of those middle US cities but the circumstances are the same: if too many of the paying customers (the residents, the office workers, the tourists) disappear... there aren't enough left to keep things going. So even if the stores are closing for reasons that have nothing to do with theft and crime (this is absolutely NOT the case in San Francisco, but I'll play along here), the net result is still going to be the same. People leave, stores close; more people leave as the areas have fewer services; more businesses close since people have left. It is a bad pattern. Developers are counting on people returning to these cities and building some large projects, but I am not so convinced as many people will return to San Francisco in the future, as were there before COVID.

Also Target's website doesn't even list the stores in San Francisco. I guess that is "normal" too. It is like they don't even want people looking for a Target to know about those 4 stores in San Francisco. Isn't that strange? It has been that way since last year.
https://www.target.com/store-locator/st ... california
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