New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by Romr123 »

storewanderer wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:53 pm
retailfanmitchell019 wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:46 pm
Hy-Vee has been successful in Kansas City, which is similar to the Twin Cities, in which you have both Walmart and Super Target (Walmart is stronger in KC than Target), and a chain with naming rights owned by a wholesaler and franchised out (Cub or Price Chopper). I'd think they'd be able to make it work in Denver, which also has significant Walmart and Super Target presence. It would be a much smarter move than going into Kentucky/Tennessee, where the Albertsons/Kroger merger isn't affecting anything.

In Kansas City, Price Chopper stores look decent from what I've seen looking at pictures. One of the Price Chopper franchisee families, the Ball family, owns Hen House Market. Really nice stores.
I'd think if the Denver Safeway stores become Price Chopper, I'd expect them to be sold to division management and then converted over to the Price Chopper name as a franchise (like how Homeland was created out of the Oklahoma Safeway division 35 years ago, only Homeland wasn't franchised).
AWG should also acquire the Safeway distribution center in Denver to supply those Price Choppers and members it already has in the western plains region (which were previously with Affiliated Foods Midwest).
I've been to a lot of stores around Kansas City over the years but never even knew they had Super Target... shows how much attention I paid to Target...

I think Hy Vee is making a real mistake going into KY/TN. I don't even know what they are thinking or what they are doing.

Price Chopper quality varies by operator but for the most part the stores are large, have a nice decor package, and put out a strong effort on perimeter (actual quality of perimeter is very subjective... I'd say they are about on par with a typical Kroger perimeter... better items here and there though).

I do not see Denver Safeway Division management taking anything over. Poor management is the reason why the division is in the shape it is in. They've never sent shining stars to run the division and based on how the stores look the middle management/district management is very weak and operates at very low standards; this was a problem long before Albertsons bought Safeway. It is possible they have been starved for resources for years and done the best they can with what they have. Denver Division is the only place I've ever seen brown meat in Safeway Stores, I was shocked to see it 10-15 years ago, and to this day that is still a problem. On my trip to Denver a few months ago, one location I visited, I picked up multiple items that were expired from center store. Wanted to tell someone but the store manager was acting as second cashier in the middle of the afternoon after a 6 person line formed at the one open register (store had no self checkout). Again this is not something that happens at Safeway elsewhere in my experience.

An AWG entry into Denver would also provide potential competition for Associated Food Stores and Affiliated Amarillo. I do like AFS and Affiliated, I think they are strong wholesalers, but part of why they are as strong as they are is due to lack of competition. Given how they are organized though it may very well be a situation where the bigger they are the better as I think both are co-op set ups where any profits the wholesaler makes go straight back to the stores being supplied at the end of the year... there was that one year after AFS bought Albertsons Utah that the stores being supplied had to write checks back to AFS to cover losses from that acquisition; first and last time that ever happened.
Target (oddly) didn't enter Kansas City until the mid 90s, and entered with Super Target, as they'd been in St. Louis since 1970. Their first store was 119/I-35 in north Olathe. Not sure they have any non "super" stores in metro KC. They have a small store as I recall out in Lawrence (Kansas University).

Venture was the upscale discounter in KC until that point, and had pretty strong locations (even though May did not operate department stores in KC until late 90s after taking over the Jones Store Co. division of Mercantile Stores; their Payless Shoe Source/Volume Shoe division was headquartered in Topeka). Department stores in KC were Jones Store Company, Macys (left the market mid 80s), Stix Baer and Fuller (mid 70s until mid '80s); and Dillards (after mid '80s, took over Macys/Stix)
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

storewanderer wrote: November 16th, 2022, 10:53 pm Price Chopper quality varies by operator but for the most part the stores are large, have a nice decor package, and put out a strong effort on perimeter (actual quality of perimeter is very subjective... I'd say they are about on par with a typical Kroger perimeter... better items here and there though).

I do not see Denver Safeway Division management taking anything over. Poor management is the reason why the division is in the shape it is in. They've never sent shining stars to run the division and based on how the stores look the middle management/district management is very weak and operates at very low standards; this was a problem long before Albertsons bought Safeway. It is possible they have been starved for resources for years and done the best they can with what they have. Denver Division is the only place I've ever seen brown meat in Safeway Stores, I was shocked to see it 10-15 years ago, and to this day that is still a problem. On my trip to Denver a few months ago, one location I visited, I picked up multiple items that were expired from center store. Wanted to tell someone but the store manager was acting as second cashier in the middle of the afternoon after a 6 person line formed at the one open register (store had no self checkout). Again this is not something that happens at Safeway elsewhere in my experience.

An AWG entry into Denver would also provide potential competition for Associated Food Stores and Affiliated Amarillo. I do like AFS and Affiliated, I think they are strong wholesalers, but part of why they are as strong as they are is due to lack of competition.
You're right. That being said, Safeway Denver should get new management before a sale to AWG.
What Price Chopper operator from Kansas City would be willing to go into Denver?
If AWG doesn't buy the stores, the next best option is SpartanNash (Family Fare).
If SpartanNash doesn't buy the stores, the next best option is Homeland.
The worst option for would be for Kroger to keep the Safeway stores under its umbrella.
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by storewanderer »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: November 20th, 2022, 9:55 pm
You're right. That being said, Safeway Denver should get new management before a sale to AWG.
What Price Chopper operator from Kansas City would be willing to go into Denver?
If AWG doesn't buy the stores, the next best option is SpartanNash (Family Fare).
If SpartanNash doesn't buy the stores, the next best option is Homeland.
The worst option for would be for Kroger to keep the Safeway stores under its umbrella.
Spartan Nash will fail with the stores quickly. Nash has supplied some independents around Denver over the years, and Super Kmarts, and they have never done well. Most independents in the market have been supplied by AWG (since it acquired the midwest wholesaler) or Affiliated Amarillo. A few are even supplied by Associated Utah. Nash is clueless about the Denver market.

I expect Associated Utah is smart enough to NOT bite on any deal involving more than a couple dozen stores after its experience with Albertsons Salt Lake City... but who knows what may happen. Also I think Harmon's could do well in Denver if they could run it the way they run their Utah operation (the question is just how large of a strong bench does Harmon's have that would be willing to move to Denver...). Clark's is also an Associated Utah member who is expanding and in Denver area, so is H Mart adding a store in Colorado Springs. But I do think assets in Grand Junction, parts of Utah, and Idaho will attract interest of Associated Utah and its many growing operators.

Not many of the Safeways will stay open under Kroger. There is no use running a lousy dead outdated $300k a week Safeway across the street from a larger $1 million/week King Soopers. Maybe they could convert some into Ocado spokes. That may be an idea.... probably a really good one... for Kroger...
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by Bagels »

Lots of enthusiasm for a SpartanNash retail expansion, but they've repeatedly stated they'd rather not own any more retail stores. They acquired Martin's only because it was one of their largest (IIRC, it was THE largest) customers and the chain was for sale.
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: November 21st, 2022, 12:06 pm Lots of enthusiasm for a SpartanNash retail expansion, but they've repeatedly stated they'd rather not own any more retail stores. They acquired Martin's only because it was one of their largest (IIRC, it was THE largest) customers and the chain was for sale.
There is good reason why they don't want to own any more retail stores. Nash is a terrible operator of retail stores. They've been failing for years. Avanza, Econo Foods, Sun Mart, you name it, they fail fail and fail again. They just don't do a good job. I thought Spartan was better but it seems on the retail side, the Nash way of doing things is what happened going forward.

As of late they are moving everything to that Family Fare banner and while those stores certainly look better than the old Nash Retail formats of the 90's, they seem to perform just as poorly. It is the same old problems- too high of pricing, strange/poor ads, lack of foot traffic. Some things never seem to change.
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by Bagels »

storewanderer wrote: November 21st, 2022, 10:45 pm
Bagels wrote: November 21st, 2022, 12:06 pm Lots of enthusiasm for a SpartanNash retail expansion, but they've repeatedly stated they'd rather not own any more retail stores. They acquired Martin's only because it was one of their largest (IIRC, it was THE largest) customers and the chain was for sale.
There is good reason why they don't want to own any more retail stores. Nash is a terrible operator of retail stores. They've been failing for years. Avanza, Econo Foods, Sun Mart, you name it, they fail fail and fail again. They just don't do a good job. I thought Spartan was better but it seems on the retail side, the Nash way of doing things is what happened going forward.

As of late they are moving everything to that Family Fare banner and while those stores certainly look better than the old Nash Retail formats of the 90's, they seem to perform just as poorly. It is the same old problems- too high of pricing, strange/poor ads, lack of foot traffic. Some things never seem to change.
Spartan was equally a terrible operator. I'd bet they've closed at least 2/3 of the stores they've acquired in the last 20 years. They seem to do well only in West Michigan, where they are the only traditional grocery store operator. Even there, they've closed the majority of even the large format modern stores they've picked up.
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by buckguy »

Bagels wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:12 pm
storewanderer wrote: November 21st, 2022, 10:45 pm
Bagels wrote: November 21st, 2022, 12:06 pm Lots of enthusiasm for a SpartanNash retail expansion, but they've repeatedly stated they'd rather not own any more retail stores. They acquired Martin's only because it was one of their largest (IIRC, it was THE largest) customers and the chain was for sale.
There is good reason why they don't want to own any more retail stores. Nash is a terrible operator of retail stores. They've been failing for years. Avanza, Econo Foods, Sun Mart, you name it, they fail fail and fail again. They just don't do a good job. I thought Spartan was better but it seems on the retail side, the Nash way of doing things is what happened going forward.

As of late they are moving everything to that Family Fare banner and while those stores certainly look better than the old Nash Retail formats of the 90's, they seem to perform just as poorly. It is the same old problems- too high of pricing, strange/poor ads, lack of foot traffic. Some things never seem to change.
Spartan was equally a terrible operator. I'd bet they've closed at least 2/3 of the stores they've acquired in the last 20 years. They seem to do well only in West Michigan, where they are the only traditional grocery store operator. Even there, they've closed the majority of even the large format modern stores they've picked up.
Spartan very quickly ran Seaway FoodTown into the ground.
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by storewanderer »

buckguy wrote: November 30th, 2022, 6:15 pm
Bagels wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:12 pm

Spartan was equally a terrible operator. I'd bet they've closed at least 2/3 of the stores they've acquired in the last 20 years. They seem to do well only in West Michigan, where they are the only traditional grocery store operator. Even there, they've closed the majority of even the large format modern stores they've picked up.
Spartan very quickly ran Seaway FoodTown into the ground.
Ouch. No wonder the combined wholesaler was so poor at retail. From what I saw of Spartan back before the Nash merger, they looked stronger... it was in West Michigan though... and they were higher priced and not merchandised as well compared to Jewel or an IN Kroger.
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: November 21st, 2022, 10:45 pm
Bagels wrote: November 21st, 2022, 12:06 pm Lots of enthusiasm for a SpartanNash retail expansion, but they've repeatedly stated they'd rather not own any more retail stores. They acquired Martin's only because it was one of their largest (IIRC, it was THE largest) customers and the chain was for sale.
There is good reason why they don't want to own any more retail stores. Nash is a terrible operator of retail stores. They've been failing for years. Avanza, Econo Foods, Sun Mart, you name it, they fail fail and fail again. They just don't do a good job. I thought Spartan was better but it seems on the retail side, the Nash way of doing things is what happened going forward.

As of late they are moving everything to that Family Fare banner and while those stores certainly look better than the old Nash Retail formats of the 90's, they seem to perform just as poorly. It is the same old problems- too high of pricing, strange/poor ads, lack of foot traffic. Some things never seem to change.
Avanza...wasn't that the one where they located inside of a dead mall's Montgomery Ward?
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Re: New Safeway opening Burlington, CO

Post by storewanderer »

pseudo3d wrote: December 1st, 2022, 11:06 am

Avanza...wasn't that the one where they located inside of a dead mall's Montgomery Ward?
The one I went to in Denver on Federal was some old grocery space. It is still open as a Lowe's Food Mercado. Have not been there as Lowe's Food. Was there as Avanza. Avanza was a pathetic effort at hispanic former (Grocery Warehouse did better, was still open there, at least it sold fresh products that were not outright garbage). Low low quality products and a bunch of bright paint slapped on the walls. Just terrible. Poor service, poor front end systems, an all around terrible store. But Lowe's is still open so the location must be viable. Well Raleys tried the same sort of concept with a hispanic Food Source format in Reno minus the bright paint, and had a similar miserable failure.
I think the Lowe's Food Mercado in Aurora was also a former Avanza but that is a former Safeway and many elements of the late 90's Safeway interior including flooring, produce, floral, and deli are still largely in tact there.

But there were other Avanzas besides those.

Now Nash has a hispanic format called Nuestro Familia or something, I think one of those stores is a former Avanza also. Name makes no difference if you run a lousy format. Maybe expectations for how a hispanic format store should be are different in the plains states than they are in the southwest where the hispanic format stores run to a much higher standard of quality and service.
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