Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by cjd »

My mall tried other things to. They were successful getting Planet Fitness to take over a tenant that had been empty nearly 20 years.

I think the hope was it would draw more traffic to the mall, but it doesn’t seem to have done that. In fact all 3 tenants in sight of the gym have closed or relocated.

They try to do local events on weekends but I don’t think there’s enough to do it permanently.

I’m not even sure why they use it for things like sporting events. It’s just really dead and it’s clear new retailers aren’t interested in coming in so the 3 empty anchors shall stay so.
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by veteran+ »

pseudo3d wrote: December 31st, 2022, 11:23 am
ClownLoach wrote: December 29th, 2022, 1:25 pm At this point in the mall transition I have less belief that even "B" quality malls will survive unless they have the ability to be reconfigured to consolidate some existing space, turn some space "inside out" and create outdoor Paseo type setups, etc.

But the true "A" quality malls may have a few short term vacancies but in general they are not going anywhere but up. The best malls in the best locations just wind up increasing the radius of the market they serve, and ironically the best of these malls are still early in transitioning to more restaurants, entertainment, mixed use etc.

The idea that every single city with a 100K population should have a multi anchor enclosed mall is dead and never coming back. But the true regionals will keep adapting and moving on even if it means a metro area that had half a dozen malls reduce to just the single "A" mall.
Any "inside out" remodels for "B" malls won't work if the demographics have soured, and at some point it's not recoverable.

Having a multi-anchor enclosed mall for a 100k population (or less than that) isn't dead IF they learn to compromise and change and evolve. I know that one of the reasons my local mall started to die was because the rent was too high for what it was, leading to a lot of turnover in the smaller, local stores. So if regional malls had more local stores (properly cultivated to not just be cheap banners and just the trash that local stores tend to be associated with), more non-fashion stores, maybe a grocery store anchor, and more community events, they can come back to life. Imagine all those trashy kiosks being replaced with "festival marketplace" stalls or farmers' market stalls.
Well said.

Beverly Center (totally enclosed) in West Hollywood is prime example of smart evolution with the times. Top tier center for sure!
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by veteran+ »

cjd wrote: December 31st, 2022, 9:05 pm My mall tried other things to. They were successful getting Planet Fitness to take over a tenant that had been empty nearly 20 years.

I think the hope was it would draw more traffic to the mall, but it doesn’t seem to have done that. In fact all 3 tenants in sight of the gym have closed or relocated.

They try to do local events on weekends but I don’t think there’s enough to do it permanently.

I’m not even sure why they use it for things like sporting events. It’s just really dead and it’s clear new retailers aren’t interested in coming in so the 3 empty anchors shall stay so.
IMO, when a mall recruits a gym or a vocational school..............................it's days are numbered. Those types of "businesses" do not bring in the foot traffic for retail BUT gobble up all the parking spaces.
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by buckguy »

veteran+ wrote: January 1st, 2023, 7:15 am
cjd wrote: December 31st, 2022, 9:05 pm My mall tried other things to. They were successful getting Planet Fitness to take over a tenant that had been empty nearly 20 years.

I think the hope was it would draw more traffic to the mall, but it doesn’t seem to have done that. In fact all 3 tenants in sight of the gym have closed or relocated.

They try to do local events on weekends but I don’t think there’s enough to do it permanently.

I’m not even sure why they use it for things like sporting events. It’s just really dead and it’s clear new retailers aren’t interested in coming in so the 3 empty anchors shall stay so.
IMO, when a mall recruits a gym or a vocational school..............................it's days are numbered. Those types of "businesses" do not bring in the foot traffic for retail BUT gobble up all the parking spaces.
It least that makes it look less dead from the outside.

The institutional uses like schools or health centers (very expensive because of the plumbing and hazardous waste issues) take up more space than gyms or mon & pops, but not the 100Ks of sf needed to really fill space in a dead or declining mall.
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: January 1st, 2023, 7:15 am
cjd wrote: December 31st, 2022, 9:05 pm My mall tried other things to. They were successful getting Planet Fitness to take over a tenant that had been empty nearly 20 years.

I think the hope was it would draw more traffic to the mall, but it doesn’t seem to have done that. In fact all 3 tenants in sight of the gym have closed or relocated.

They try to do local events on weekends but I don’t think there’s enough to do it permanently.

I’m not even sure why they use it for things like sporting events. It’s just really dead and it’s clear new retailers aren’t interested in coming in so the 3 empty anchors shall stay so.
IMO, when a mall recruits a gym or a vocational school..............................it's days are numbered. Those types of "businesses" do not bring in the foot traffic for retail BUT gobble up all the parking spaces.
These types of businesses also tend to be uninviting. They typically close off the entrances from the mall interior of if they keep them they are like a solid door, no glass windows. These businesses from an appearance perspective do not "fit" into a mall. Stick one of these down at the end of a corridor and any surrounding retail spaces in that corridor are also killed by default.
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: January 1st, 2023, 3:00 pm
veteran+ wrote: January 1st, 2023, 7:15 am IMO, when a mall recruits a gym or a vocational school..............................it's days are numbered. Those types of "businesses" do not bring in the foot traffic for retail BUT gobble up all the parking spaces.
These types of businesses also tend to be uninviting. They typically close off the entrances from the mall interior of if they keep them they are like a solid door, no glass windows. These businesses from an appearance perspective do not "fit" into a mall. Stick one of these down at the end of a corridor and any surrounding retail spaces in that corridor are also killed by default.
Though perhaps it works OK with a mall that has a fair amount of space, IF they work it out such that the remaining stores move together into one section, while these other uses take over a different portion?

That way, you fill the space (and get the money that comes with them) while still allowing the businesses that do well to remain as well.
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by cjd »

The gym has windows that overlook the corridor as well as a set of doors.

They relocated GNC and Hibbetts was already there so they’d be visible from the windows. Both have closed after two years. Well Hibbetts relocated to a power center. But obviously traffic was not drawn in.
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by ninersdd »

Back in 2013, both Ross and Bed Bath Beyond left Country Club Mall in Sacramento for Town and County Village about a mile away. Town and Country was a place that didn't have any big box stores until then, where it became a power center with the stores moving in(a brand new building). It was one of the first suburban oriented shopping centers in the country when it opened in 1946. Country Club Mall got a Planet Fitness and That's Cheap to replace the stores. The mall is still struggling, especially with the closure of Macys in 2016. Definitely odd with a Winco as the other anchor. They did add a cinema in 2019 before the pandemic. Area is where a lot of "old" money lived, but that's been dying off, and there are quite a few homeless on the El Camino and Watt intersection. (Also across the street was where the Wal Mart and Sams closed 5 years ago)
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by storewanderer »

ninersdd wrote: January 4th, 2023, 1:30 am Back in 2013, both Ross and Bed Bath Beyond left Country Club Mall in Sacramento for Town and County Village about a mile away. Town and Country was a place that didn't have any big box stores until then, where it became a power center with the stores moving in(a brand new building). It was one of the first suburban oriented shopping centers in the country when it opened in 1946. Country Club Mall got a Planet Fitness and That's Cheap to replace the stores. The mall is still struggling, especially with the closure of Macys in 2016. Definitely odd with a Winco as the other anchor. They did add a cinema in 2019 before the pandemic. Area is where a lot of "old" money lived, but that's been dying off, and there are quite a few homeless on the El Camino and Watt intersection. (Also across the street was where the Wal Mart and Sams closed 5 years ago)
When Country Club had the outdated Gottschalks and the outdated Macy's that "old money" customer was still going there and it was a comfortable shopping environment for them (despite the shopping centers across the road where Fresh & Easy was and then the one with Wal Mart feeling a bit like you needed to watch your back) and liked those stores. The mall itself was pretty dead already but those anchor tenants survived, not investing in their facilities. I think the biggest reason that Macys stayed open as long as it did was the Arden Macys is undersized. For instance one year I was shopping in Sacramento and went to Arden Macys; looking for Christmas ornaments; looked all around, finally asked for the location of them. I was told they do not have Christmas items at that store and to go to Country Club (this was 7-8 years ago). Who knows what other categories are missing. I almost wonder if Macys needs to go and take the old Sears at Arden Fair and get a full sized store there; but doubt it will happen as retail at Arden area is declining now also.
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Re: Tenants leaving mall for Power Centers

Post by pseudo3d »

cjd wrote: December 31st, 2022, 9:05 pm My mall tried other things to. They were successful getting Planet Fitness to take over a tenant that had been empty nearly 20 years.

I think the hope was it would draw more traffic to the mall, but it doesn’t seem to have done that. In fact all 3 tenants in sight of the gym have closed or relocated.

They try to do local events on weekends but I don’t think there’s enough to do it permanently.

I’m not even sure why they use it for things like sporting events. It’s just really dead and it’s clear new retailers aren’t interested in coming in so the 3 empty anchors shall stay so.
They can't have any hope of revival if they attract anchors that don't open into the mall. Things like Conn's HomePlus or At Home or an Asian market what have you aren't going to be massive draws but they can at least work with what's there.

Even mini college campuses could be a draw if it has something to offer the general public. I remember the physics building at my old alma mater had a few science museum-type permanent displays, such as a Foucault pendulum or one of those funnels you can race coins down. A cooking school, for instance, would be a good choice for a mall because of a student-run restaurant.
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