H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

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retailfanmitchell019
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

biggins wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:31 am H-E-B broke ground last week on its new Mansfield store at Broad & 287. At 118,000 SF, it looks to be of a similar size as the Plano and Frisco stores. This will fill a 40-mile gap between the Waxahachie and Burleson stores in serving the fringe of the southern DFW Metroplex.

H-E-B breaks ground, releases details on Mansfield store
That Tom Thumb nearby is on borrowed time now.
I think HEB should take Tom Thumb/Albertsons stores in DFW up for divestiture, converting the ones in wealthy areas to Central Market.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by architect »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:15 pm
biggins wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:31 am H-E-B broke ground last week on its new Mansfield store at Broad & 287. At 118,000 SF, it looks to be of a similar size as the Plano and Frisco stores. This will fill a 40-mile gap between the Waxahachie and Burleson stores in serving the fringe of the southern DFW Metroplex.

H-E-B breaks ground, releases details on Mansfield store
That Tom Thumb nearby is on borrowed time now.
I think HEB should take Tom Thumb/Albertsons stores in DFW up for divestiture, converting the ones in wealthy areas to Central Market.
Surprisingly, that Tom Thumb does brisk business, so I'm somewhat doubtful that it will close immediately. Plus, there is a ton of new residential development taking place in the area, giving more market share to split among the stores in the area. On the flipside, I do anticipate at least one competitor closure within a few years, as Tom Thumb, Market Street, Kroger (2 locations), Aldi, and Sprouts all have locations nearby. I also imagine that the Walmart across 287 from the aforementioned Tom Thumb will take a hit, as HEB often meets them on pricing, with a far superior shopping environment.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by pseudo3d »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: February 6th, 2023, 1:15 pm
biggins wrote: February 6th, 2023, 11:31 am H-E-B broke ground last week on its new Mansfield store at Broad & 287. At 118,000 SF, it looks to be of a similar size as the Plano and Frisco stores. This will fill a 40-mile gap between the Waxahachie and Burleson stores in serving the fringe of the southern DFW Metroplex.

H-E-B breaks ground, releases details on Mansfield store
That Tom Thumb nearby is on borrowed time now.
I think HEB should take Tom Thumb/Albertsons stores in DFW up for divestiture, converting the ones in wealthy areas to Central Market.
This post is quite ignorant to how different H-E-B is. A lot of their stores are not full-service at all and, based on what I've seen, is probably closer to ShopRite than most other "real" supermarkets. They rarely acquire stores and NEVER reopen them in any capacity. Also, Central Market and H-E-B are completely different formats in merchandising and layout other than sharing a lot of the back-end support and ownership...it would be like comparing Sam's Club to Walmart.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote: February 8th, 2023, 10:19 am This post is quite ignorant to how different H-E-B is. A lot of their stores are not full-service at all and, based on what I've seen, is probably closer to ShopRite than most other "real" supermarkets. They rarely acquire stores and NEVER reopen them in any capacity. Also, Central Market and H-E-B are completely different formats in merchandising and layout other than sharing a lot of the back-end support and ownership...it would be like comparing Sam's Club to Walmart.
I disagree. HEB is *EXACTLY* like other companies already in DFW:
  • The stores are not full service. Most mainline supermarkets in the metroplex - Albertsons Cos., Kroger, Brookshire, Fiesta are not either. Only Central Market and Market Street (which is an Albertsons division now) come close.
  • They rarely acquire stores. WHAT? Many HEBs outside SA and Austin are either an acquisition or a replacement for one. Look closely at the following stores: Lufkin - built as Albertsons, which HEB remodeled and reopened. Carthage - built as Safeway, which became U-Save Foods, who sold out to HEB. Many Houston stores started out as a Pantry store, many of which were former Safeways, then relocated to larger stores, many Albertsons and others.
  • I agree that they HEB and CM are merchandised differently. They are also located differently. Most CM stores are upscale in nature and located in upscale neighborhoods. HEB stores are mainstream, and are like the list of full service stores above.
  • HEB also proved they were unable to operate outside Texas/Mexico. Their Lake Charles store was a massive failure. They do not do well in areas they are not familiar with.
I still believe they can make things work in Dallas, but they will have to step up the game a bit. Dallas is a deathbed for retail that cannot improve. Let us all remember Minyard/Sack n Save, Food Lion, Safeway, Winn Dixie, Wyatt's, any Brookshire-owned store in Dallas or Tarrant counties, and many, many others.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote: April 21st, 2023, 6:32 am
pseudo3d wrote: February 8th, 2023, 10:19 am This post is quite ignorant to how different H-E-B is. A lot of their stores are not full-service at all and, based on what I've seen, is probably closer to ShopRite than most other "real" supermarkets. They rarely acquire stores and NEVER reopen them in any capacity. Also, Central Market and H-E-B are completely different formats in merchandising and layout other than sharing a lot of the back-end support and ownership...it would be like comparing Sam's Club to Walmart.
I disagree. HEB is *EXACTLY* like other companies already in DFW:
Most mainline supermarkets in the metroplex - Albertsons Cos., Kroger, Brookshire, Fiesta are not either. Only Central Market and Market Street (which is an Albertsons division now) come close.[/list]
Kroger and Tom Thumb run full delis with both sliceable meats and hot/cold food by the pound. H-E-B does not offer plates or food by the pound.
WHAT? Many HEBs outside SA and Austin are either an acquisition or a replacement for one. Look closely at the following stores: Lufkin - built as Albertsons, which HEB remodeled and reopened. Carthage - built as Safeway, which became U-Save Foods, who sold out to HEB. Many Houston stores started out as a Pantry store, many of which were former Safeways, then relocated to larger stores, many Albertsons and others.
It's true that H-E-B picked up a few store sites from Albertsons when they were closing, and did purchase some stores in and around Austin when Albertsons was contracting during the LLC era, but they don't purchase operational stores like Kroger and Albertsons have been known to do. The Pantry stores were a mix of vacant store sites (not necessarily grocery, and in one case not even retail) and new-build operations. They don't typically purchase operating stores like what they would have to do in the Kroger/Albertsons merger.

Furthermore, their new suburban stores are typically around 100k square feet (large stores but not very well merchandised) and its highly doubtful that any stores that will be bumped off will reach that threshold.
Their Lake Charles store was a massive failure. They do not do well in areas they are not familiar with.
This is laughable. The Lake Charles store was hobbled by road construction that took a while, it still lasted seven years despite that, and above all, it's a single data point which is completely worthless as far as statistics is concerned.

Even if that held any weight, the Pantry stores and the "full" stores are very different. The Montrose (Houston) H-E-B opened in 2011 and has been a success since, but a previous Pantry store existed in the neighborhood in the late 1990s and only lasted about a year.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote: April 22nd, 2023, 8:41 am Kroger and Tom Thumb run full delis with both sliceable meats and hot/cold food by the pound. H-E-B does not offer plates or food by the pound.
A Deli department doesn't necessarily mean hot food. It means food not in shelf packaging served full service style.
pseudo3d wrote: April 22nd, 2023, 8:41 am It's true that H-E-B picked up a few store sites from Albertsons when they were closing, and did purchase some stores in and around Austin when Albertsons was contracting during the LLC era, but they don't purchase operational stores like Kroger and Albertsons have been known to do. The Pantry stores were a mix of vacant store sites (not necessarily grocery, and in one case not even retail) and new-build operations. They don't typically purchase operating stores like what they would have to do in the Kroger/Albertsons merger.

Furthermore, their new suburban stores are typically around 100k square feet (large stores but not very well merchandised) and its highly doubtful that any stores that will be bumped off will reach that threshold.
No, they have picked up many 'working stores' (Stores purchased by others while still open) from Safeway, Albertsons, and independents. Working stores are far easier to remodel as all FFE is being currently used and is normally in decent, workable shape. It saves on having to completely remodel the store and helps attract the regulars by not immediately changing all the store around.
pseudo3d wrote: April 22nd, 2023, 8:41 am This is laughable. The Lake Charles store was hobbled by road construction that took a while, it still lasted seven years despite that, and above all, it's a single data point which is completely worthless as far as statistics is concerned.

Even if that held any weight, the Pantry stores and the "full" stores are very different. The Montrose (Houston) H-E-B opened in 2011 and has been a success since, but a previous Pantry store existed in the neighborhood in the late 1990s and only lasted about a year.
You don't know Louisiana very well. Our whole life is around road deterioration and construction. That is not what killed this store. Poor planning and bad merchandising killed Lake Charles. The Delchamps originally in that spot had a deli and bakery selling what locals wanted, HEB removed that. The store was not what was wanted or needed there. Kroger ran circles around them with what was 3 stores at the time (one large new store now). Also, while HEB is building larger stores in metropolitan and immediate suburban areas, outer, more rural oriented (non Dallas, SA or Houston) stores are smaller.

Retailers often operate on the one metric rule - a single data point - to expand. That single failure caused HEB to refocus their expansion - they had been heading more easterly with their namesake stores - until Lake Charles. Other retailers have expanded there - Brookshire Brothers is one example. They purchased Cormie's on the south side of town and expanded it. Kroger has built a near-Marketplace to replace three aging stores. Albertsons still has 2 stores running. Walmart has added a Neighborhood Market. All of those stores have full service departments. HEB tried without and failed. If they come back, they will have to step up their game. They have a surprisingly successful former Pantry store in Orange, TX, and that is why I believe they had the momentum to expand.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by pseudo3d »

The Red Bird site, as well as another location purchased in 2014, will be Joe V's Smart Shop, not full H-E-B stores. It was announced yesterday or today.

https://archive.is/B0XdV
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... -to-dallas
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by storewanderer »

pseudo3d wrote: June 7th, 2023, 7:11 pm The Red Bird site, as well as another location purchased in 2014, will be Joe V's Smart Shop, not full H-E-B stores. It was announced yesterday or today.

https://archive.is/B0XdV
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ret ... -to-dallas
Interesting punch to throw at WinCo.

At least they are doing... something with those 2014 sites...
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by wnetmacman »

storewanderer wrote: June 7th, 2023, 11:11 pm Interesting punch to throw at WinCo.

At least they are doing... something with those 2014 sites...
I don't see Joe V's as a threat. They are very minimal in terms of peripheral departments, like a huge Aldi. There are only nine of them around Houston; for as many mainline HEB stores as they have, that's a minimal number and a possible testament to the lack of popularity.

WinCo is more of a threat in Texas for Brookshire Grocery Company's Super 1 Foods chain, which is more along the same lines with departmental availability. BGC has closed all Super 1 stores in the metroplex, and did so before WinCO got in.
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Re: H-E-B to enter DFW market proper with Plano, Frisco stores

Post by architect »

wnetmacman wrote: June 8th, 2023, 7:09 am
storewanderer wrote: June 7th, 2023, 11:11 pm Interesting punch to throw at WinCo.

At least they are doing... something with those 2014 sites...
I don't see Joe V's as a threat. They are very minimal in terms of peripheral departments, like a huge Aldi. There are only nine of them around Houston; for as many mainline HEB stores as they have, that's a minimal number and a possible testament to the lack of popularity.

WinCo is more of a threat in Texas for Brookshire Grocery Company's Super 1 Foods chain, which is more along the same lines with departmental availability. BGC has closed all Super 1 stores in the metroplex, and did so before WinCO got in.
Actually, in McKinney, Super 1 Foods competed with Winco for at least a couple of years before BGC pulled the plug. With that being said, the Super 1 was an old Brookshires and was undersized compared to other area competition, so I question whether Winco was the sole factor here.
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