Walmart 2023 Closings

[veteran+]

Also...........................NO more backpacks and the like!

[BillyGr]

Here is the answer.

The grocery stores need to partner with a vendor that specializes in sterilization and reuse of medical equipment. These companies can make something you would never think of reusing into a viable and sterile instrument.

The store still sells bags for maybe $1 a piece new but introduces a return machine at the entrance. This machine sucks up the used dirty bags and spits out a voucher. Voucher redeems at register, you get a clean bag for each dirty bag. Nobody brings any bags past the entrance doors. Nobody is permitted to shop into bags and LP actually can now enforce the measure by just exchanging the customer bag for a voucher. At the register the voucher is exchanged for reused, sanitized bags. Now every problem is solved. No customer on the floor with any kind of bag is accepted. Germs and viruses are eliminated as the bags get cleaned and treated. Bags actually get the expected reuse of hundreds of times. No other bags are sold or accepted at the store. Anything going out the door in a bag can generally be assumed paid. You must buy into the reusable bag ecosystems offered, which can be banner agnostic to prevent say having an Albertsons bag show up at Kroger.

The other piece of the puzzle is that the stores will have to better secure carts and handbaskets. So many stores are short on carts and baskets these days that if you bought a bag in you might feel encouraged to use it as you might have no alternative. I have seen some newer cart tech that's going to roll out (sorry for the pun) now that GPS locators are cheap, vendors are already trying to sell carts that are completely geolocated and can truly lock down all 4 wheels if taken outside of the property plus give a location to pickup services. These devices are supposed to be tamper proof as well. Other devices being shown are an updated version of the infamous Aldi coin lock where the carts can only be unlocked with the use of a mobile phone and NFC app plus have the same geo lock system, not sure if this is a good solution as technophobes will not be able to figure it out. The homeless will not enjoy this as the days of carts leaving store lots are limited.

Here is the answer: STOP ANNOYING PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CAUSING PROBLEMS AND JUST GO AFTER THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY BREAK THE LAW!!!

No need for ANY of this extra stupidity.
There is nothing wrong with the bags people bring - if THEY don't worry about cleaning them, THEY will be the ones to suffer any effects - if there actually are any, since 99.9999999999% of stuff in stores comes in some kind of package or gets put in a bag, it simply can NOT pick up anything from the bag.
There is nothing wrong with the carts and baskets, and it would be ILLEGAL to use some phone system, as that DISCRIMINATES as NOT EVERYONE HAS nor IS EVERYONE REQUIRED TO HAVE SUCH A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT!!!!

If people are stealing by using bags, carts or whatever, you STOP THEM and ONLY THEM from doing so - hire some 300Lb. former football players to stand at the exit, and it would stop immediately, since those breaking the law know that THOSE security people can and will keep them from leaving, unlike some person looking at a receipt.
Or, if the stores are simply unwilling to do that, let them steal whatever they want to, and subtract the cost from the EXECUTIVES paychecks - I bet they'd figure out how to fix it right then!

[storewanderer]

Here is the answer.

The grocery stores need to partner with a vendor that specializes in sterilization and reuse of medical equipment. These companies can make something you would never think of reusing into a viable and sterile instrument.

The store still sells bags for maybe $1 a piece new but introduces a return machine at the entrance. This machine sucks up the used dirty bags and spits out a voucher. Voucher redeems at register, you get a clean bag for each dirty bag. Nobody brings any bags past the entrance doors. Nobody is permitted to shop into bags and LP actually can now enforce the measure by just exchanging the customer bag for a voucher. At the register the voucher is exchanged for reused, sanitized bags. Now every problem is solved. No customer on the floor with any kind of bag is accepted. Germs and viruses are eliminated as the bags get cleaned and treated. Bags actually get the expected reuse of hundreds of times. No other bags are sold or accepted at the store. Anything going out the door in a bag can generally be assumed paid. You must buy into the reusable bag ecosystems offered, which can be banner agnostic to prevent say having an Albertsons bag show up at Kroger.

The other piece of the puzzle is that the stores will have to better secure carts and handbaskets. So many stores are short on carts and baskets these days that if you bought a bag in you might feel encouraged to use it as you might have no alternative. I have seen some newer cart tech that's going to roll out (sorry for the pun) now that GPS locators are cheap, vendors are already trying to sell carts that are completely geolocated and can truly lock down all 4 wheels if taken outside of the property plus give a location to pickup services. These devices are supposed to be tamper proof as well. Other devices being shown are an updated version of the infamous Aldi coin lock where the carts can only be unlocked with the use of a mobile phone and NFC app plus have the same geo lock system, not sure if this is a good solution as technophobes will not be able to figure it out. The homeless will not enjoy this as the days of carts leaving store lots are limited.

Here is the answer: STOP ANNOYING PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CAUSING PROBLEMS AND JUST GO AFTER THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY BREAK THE LAW!!!

No need for ANY of this extra stupidity.
There is nothing wrong with the bags people bring - if THEY don't worry about cleaning them, THEY will be the ones to suffer any effects - if there actually are any, since 99.9999999999% of stuff in stores comes in some kind of package or gets put in a bag, it simply can NOT pick up anything from the bag.
There is nothing wrong with the carts and baskets, and it would be ILLEGAL to use some phone system, as that DISCRIMINATES as NOT EVERYONE HAS nor IS EVERYONE REQUIRED TO HAVE SUCH A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT!!!!

If people are stealing by using bags, carts or whatever, you STOP THEM and ONLY THEM from doing so - hire some 300Lb. former football players to stand at the exit, and it would stop immediately, since those breaking the law know that THOSE security people can and will keep them from leaving, unlike some person looking at a receipt.
Or, if the stores are simply unwilling to do that, let them steal whatever they want to, and subtract the cost from the EXECUTIVES paychecks - I bet they'd figure out how to fix it right then!

As long as those bags never touch anything in the store, who cares how clean they are. Who cares if a cashier and bagger both handle a reusable customer provided bag full of dog pee or worse vomit (I've seen it... smelled it... in one case I touched it)... Sorry but these reusable bags are disgusting.

You are correct that the store needs to go after the people who steal and leave everyone else alone. It is just that pushing reusable bags creates a situation making it much easier for the thief to blend in with "other customers." So how do you suggest that is addressed? Better security? More security?

Many chains for safety purposes and liability reasons do not allow store employees to chase or apprehend shoplifters. There are too many reports of shoplifters injuring staff. Having intimidating looking security at the store makes honest customers uncomfortable and makes them concerned this store may not be a safe place to shop in.

Safety needs to be the first priority and I am sorry but I'd rather keep the store employees safe and other customers safe than allow reusable bags, backpacks, duffle bags, etc. on the sales floor if banning the reusable bags would help to get theft under control. At this point again as I said this will not alleviate the issue but it would be a significant help.

Notice how so many of these cities that are having major theft issues in the retail stores are in places where bag fees have been legislated? Connect the dots.

It is going to be a lot worse for these cities when more and more retailers close up shop. But that's okay- online deliveries full of plastic air sheets will be permitted since nobody legislated against the use of those. Same exact thin plastic film as the bags with ZERO reuse potential (unlike the bags which are reused for trash easily among other things). So much for "plastic reduction."

[BillyGr]

As long as those bags never touch anything in the store, who cares how clean they are. Who cares if a cashier and bagger both handle a reusable customer provided bag full of dog pee or worse vomit (I've seen it... smelled it... in one case I touched it)... Sorry but these reusable bags are disgusting.

That is obviously FAR beyond what 99.99% of the bags are like. If someone actually brought that bag you describe in, they should be escorted back out the door immediately. It's more those who think that because the bag was used to carry a bunch of sealed products (bottles, cans, boxes and similar) once that it needs to go into a hazardous waste disposal.

That's the opposite end of the scale, and much closer to what the majority of these bags are looking like when brought in.

You are correct that the store needs to go after the people who steal and leave everyone else alone. It is just that pushing reusable bags creates a situation making it much easier for the thief to blend in with "other customers." So how do you suggest that is addressed? Better security? More security?

Many chains for safety purposes and liability reasons do not allow store employees to chase or apprehend shoplifters. There are too many reports of shoplifters injuring staff. Having intimidating looking security at the store makes honest customers uncomfortable and makes them concerned this store may not be a safe place to shop in.

The easy solution is to watch for those who don't follow the "normal" pattern. For instance, someone walking to the exit with a reusable bag and not going through the checkout line is going to be far more suspect than someone coming towards the door from the checkout area with a bag and receipt in hand. Certainly, that person from the register may not have been 100% honest, but far less likely. So, you have whoever is at the door watching for those trying to exit the "wrong" way first and foremost.
Also, that second part is why they need specific people to hold these positions, not just anyone, similar to the way one would for other strenuous spots (like actual police and other positions). Some may be uncomfortable, though they may be able to disguise these people (such as have them in a section near the door with one-way windows, so they can watch what's happening and respond when needed, but otherwise not be visible to those not causing issues).

Safety needs to be the first priority and I am sorry but I'd rather keep the store employees safe and other customers safe than allow reusable bags, backpacks, duffle bags, etc. on the sales floor if banning the reusable bags would help to get theft under control. At this point again as I said this will not alleviate the issue but it would be a significant help.

Notice how so many of these cities that are having major theft issues in the retail stores are in places where bag fees have been legislated? Connect the dots.

It is going to be a lot worse for these cities when more and more retailers close up shop. But that's okay- online deliveries full of plastic air sheets will be permitted since nobody legislated against the use of those. Same exact thin plastic film as the bags with ZERO reuse potential (unlike the bags which are reused for trash easily among other things). So much for "plastic reduction."

The question is, is it the fees, or just that they tend to be put in place in areas that already have issues?
For instance, I don't see or hear about very much of these issues here, compared to other parts of NY (even a smaller city like Albany, no less NYC). Those cities were having problems before bag rules existed, so it may make them worse, or may just be what it always was, or it might be the other laws arriving at the same time.

Note also that ANY thin plastic can be recycled just as the bags can - and even though bags have been gone since Oct 2020 here, all stores still have the bins to collect anything that people wish to recycle (and that was used for, among other things, that imitation wood that people use for outdoor furniture and similar, so it is actually getting recycled and not dumped).

[storewanderer]

That is obviously FAR beyond what 99.99% of the bags are like. If someone actually brought that bag you describe in, they should be escorted back out the door immediately. It's more those who think that because the bag was used to carry a bunch of sealed products (bottles, cans, boxes and similar) once that it needs to go into a hazardous waste disposal.

That's the opposite end of the scale, and much closer to what the majority of these bags are looking like when brought in.



The easy solution is to watch for those who don't follow the "normal" pattern. For instance, someone walking to the exit with a reusable bag and not going through the checkout line is going to be far more suspect than someone coming towards the door from the checkout area with a bag and receipt in hand. Certainly, that person from the register may not have been 100% honest, but far less likely. So, you have whoever is at the door watching for those trying to exit the "wrong" way first and foremost.
Also, that second part is why they need specific people to hold these positions, not just anyone, similar to the way one would for other strenuous spots (like actual police and other positions). Some may be uncomfortable, though they may be able to disguise these people (such as have them in a section near the door with one-way windows, so they can watch what's happening and respond when needed, but otherwise not be visible to those not causing issues).



The question is, is it the fees, or just that they tend to be put in place in areas that already have issues?
For instance, I don't see or hear about very much of these issues here, compared to other parts of NY (even a smaller city like Albany, no less NYC). Those cities were having problems before bag rules existed, so it may make them worse, or may just be what it always was, or it might be the other laws arriving at the same time.

Note also that ANY thin plastic can be recycled just as the bags can - and even though bags have been gone since Oct 2020 here, all stores still have the bins to collect anything that people wish to recycle (and that was used for, among other things, that imitation wood that people use for outdoor furniture and similar, so it is actually getting recycled and not dumped).

The nasty reusable bags are much more common than you think. 5% or so of them are just nasty- as in dried (fill in the blank- feces, pee, whatever, stinks). Another 40% of them are visibly dirty but at least not smelly. The bags are noticeably cleaner if you are in a higher income neighborhood or in a Whole Foods or a Trader Joe's.

The shoplifting problem in certain large cities problem has gotten MUCH worse in the past 2-3 years. The causes I think are due to the socio-economic climate that occurred during COVID and after COVID. And I don't see the situation getting any better now, especially with the major inflation.

The thing is with the way a lot of these larger stores are configured, a lot of people can easily go to the exit without paying. Things like those old entry gates, etc. are less common today than they once were due to fire/safety concerns. In a busy store with people coming at the exit from multiple angles, through regular checkouts, self checkouts, etc., it is really difficult. For example let's say I have a reusable bag and I want to shoplift from Wal Mart or Target. I go to the self checkout and "pretend" to check myself out or hover near a checkout briefly then bolt out the door along a path with 20 other customers who all paid and 10 of them also have reusable bags. Security may happen to notice that I walked into self checkout like the other 20 customers, and didn't pay, but it all happens so quickly, a catch is quite unlikely.

The other key to using the reusable bag (vs. a store cart) is the store if they pursue it, can attempt to provide fingerprints from a left behind cart or basket (pretty useless in my opinion given dozens of people touch that cart and it isn't cleaned, but it can help to ID someone).

Conversely if you are in a store where nobody is using reusable bags, the shoplifter who is using them sticks out. It is very easy to "notice" them filling them on the sales floor (since nobody else is filling bags on the sales floor) and then keep an eye on them, and have someone near the door to potentially apprehend or approach them upon exit. At high theft Wal Mart and Target units they are supposed to remove all bags from closed registers- why do they do this? Because in the same way shoplifters can use reusable bags and blend in, they can also steal store bags, quickly put items into those bags, and try to make it look as if they paid (since again per the exit policy the receipt is only asked of for unbagged merchandise). But that is a lot harder because those store bags are generally not on the sales floor (unless someone digs them from an electronics register or something) and someone approaching a closed register at front end (where there are employees around) and stopping to fill up bags would be noticed and it would take time for them to do that, and nobody else would be doing that.

I think the areas these bag regulations were put into place already had issues with theft but it wasn't like it has become in the past few years. You hear about all these theft issues with various retailer's stores in Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, San Francisco bay area. What do they all have in common? Bag regulations that have been in place for a while- long enough to really help the shoplifters (combined with other factors- masks, lack of staff, whatever else). Now go to other large cities with no bag regulation like Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, St. Louis, and you hear isolated stories of a store here and there closing due to theft but every area even some small/medium areas sometimes have a store/mall/shopping center that turns into a theft magnet where the theft spirals out of control for some reason but when it is isolated to a single store/mall/shopping center it is easier to put extra resources into that to try to fix the issue. The difference now is this is hitting so many retailers in some of these cities I mention in the first sentence of this paragraph that it is out of control.

[ClownLoach]

That is obviously FAR beyond what 99.99% of the bags are like. If someone actually brought that bag you describe in, they should be escorted back out the door immediately. It's more those who think that because the bag was used to carry a bunch of sealed products (bottles, cans, boxes and similar) once that it needs to go into a hazardous waste disposal.

That's the opposite end of the scale, and much closer to what the majority of these bags are looking like when brought in.



The easy solution is to watch for those who don't follow the "normal" pattern. For instance, someone walking to the exit with a reusable bag and not going through the checkout line is going to be far more suspect than someone coming towards the door from the checkout area with a bag and receipt in hand. Certainly, that person from the register may not have been 100% honest, but far less likely. So, you have whoever is at the door watching for those trying to exit the "wrong" way first and foremost.
Also, that second part is why they need specific people to hold these positions, not just anyone, similar to the way one would for other strenuous spots (like actual police and other positions). Some may be uncomfortable, though they may be able to disguise these people (such as have them in a section near the door with one-way windows, so they can watch what's happening and respond when needed, but otherwise not be visible to those not causing issues).



The question is, is it the fees, or just that they tend to be put in place in areas that already have issues?
For instance, I don't see or hear about very much of these issues here, compared to other parts of NY (even a smaller city like Albany, no less NYC). Those cities were having problems before bag rules existed, so it may make them worse, or may just be what it always was, or it might be the other laws arriving at the same time.

Note also that ANY thin plastic can be recycled just as the bags can - and even though bags have been gone since Oct 2020 here, all stores still have the bins to collect anything that people wish to recycle (and that was used for, among other things, that imitation wood that people use for outdoor furniture and similar, so it is actually getting recycled and not dumped).

The nasty reusable bags are much more common than you think. 5% or so of them are just nasty- as in dried (fill in the blank- feces, pee, whatever, stinks). Another 40% of them are visibly dirty but at least not smelly. The bags are noticeably cleaner if you are in a higher income neighborhood or in a Whole Foods or a Trader Joe's.

The shoplifting problem in certain large cities problem has gotten MUCH worse in the past 2-3 years. The causes I think are due to the socio-economic climate that occurred during COVID and after COVID. And I don't see the situation getting any better now, especially with the major inflation.

The thing is with the way a lot of these larger stores are configured, a lot of people can easily go to the exit without paying. Things like those old entry gates, etc. are less common today than they once were due to fire/safety concerns. In a busy store with people coming at the exit from multiple angles, through regular checkouts, self checkouts, etc., it is really difficult. For example let's say I have a reusable bag and I want to shoplift from Wal Mart or Target. I go to the self checkout and "pretend" to check myself out or hover near a checkout briefly then bolt out the door along a path with 20 other customers who all paid and 10 of them also have reusable bags. Security may happen to notice that I walked into self checkout like the other 20 customers, and didn't pay, but it all happens so quickly, a catch is quite unlikely.

The other key to using the reusable bag (vs. a store cart) is the store if they pursue it, can attempt to provide fingerprints from a left behind cart or basket (pretty useless in my opinion given dozens of people touch that cart and it isn't cleaned, but it can help to ID someone).

Conversely if you are in a store where nobody is using reusable bags, the shoplifter who is using them sticks out. It is very easy to "notice" them filling them on the sales floor (since nobody else is filling bags on the sales floor) and then keep an eye on them, and have someone near the door to potentially apprehend or approach them upon exit. At high theft Wal Mart and Target units they are supposed to remove all bags from closed registers- why do they do this? Because in the same way shoplifters can use reusable bags and blend in, they can also steal store bags, quickly put items into those bags, and try to make it look as if they paid (since again per the exit policy the receipt is only asked of for unbagged merchandise). But that is a lot harder because those store bags are generally not on the sales floor (unless someone digs them from an electronics register or something) and someone approaching a closed register at front end (where there are employees around) and stopping to fill up bags would be noticed and it would take time for them to do that, and nobody else would be doing that.

I think the areas these bag regulations were put into place already had issues with theft but it wasn't like it has become in the past few years. You hear about all these theft issues with various retailer's stores in Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, San Francisco bay area. What do they all have in common? Bag regulations that have been in place for a while- long enough to really help the shoplifters (combined with other factors- masks, lack of staff, whatever else). Now go to other large cities with no bag regulation like Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, St. Louis, and you hear isolated stories of a store here and there closing due to theft but every area even some small/medium areas sometimes have a store/mall/shopping center that turns into a theft magnet where the theft spirals out of control for some reason but when it is isolated to a single store/mall/shopping center it is easier to put extra resources into that to try to fix the issue. The difference now is this is hitting so many retailers in some of these cities I mention in the first sentence of this paragraph that it is out of control.

I supervised a store in a rare location where a bag ordinance was passed, and then repealed several years later. I also supervised a store in a city that passed an ordinance but then was unsure if their ordinance was superceded by the state or not so we had to abide by it for years until they resolved their legal situation. (Huntington Beach and Oceanside were the cities). In both cases shrink increased year over year more than 50% in the first full year of the bag ordinances and kept climbing at least 20bps each year until the ordinance was repealed/invalidated. Both stores returned to the standard of free disposable T-shirt bags as they were non food/non pharmacy stores so reusables were no longer mandated Shrink decreased by about 40% the first year after the repeal/invalidation. Nothing else significant changed in these stores and they were both statistical outliers to the Orange County and San Diego County market results. Reusable bags were documented as the theft device in dozens of LP incident reports for run outs in both locations. Unfortunately same issue has other retailers, only an LP agent could make an arrest. In another market in San Diego where I had such a high theft problem that I got an agent a few days a week they were arresting bag loaders 5 to 1 over other concealment methods (purses, shove down pants, conceal in storage).

The reusable bags are one of the most convenient ways to shoplift ever devised. They are easy to line with metallic material to prevent Checkpoint and Sensor magic alarms from going off. Keeper boxes stack neatly in them and the thief doesn't care if they steal those with the merchandise as they usually have keys which they bought on eBay or devised themselves.

I have complete confidence that the leading cause of increased and then decreased shrink was the reusables. The only reason for not seeing as much of a decrease in the first year after repeal was that many customers still used them but that dwindled over time and eventually only customers behaving suspiciously were bringing them in and trying to shop into them; few enough we could customer service them and I did task my teams with bringing them a cart or basket at the same time they ask for the customer not to shop into the bag. When it is only a few people it is easy to do this.

I saw the argument to leave normal shoppers alone, but the industry hasn't done that for decades and can't either. Lots of retail is set up to prevent theft and impact all customers the same way. Locked fitting rooms. Turnstiles and one way doors. Lock up cases. Keeper boxes and alarms. Unfortunately I have always heard it said by LP folks that if you took 100 people and let them sit in a room with a million dollars on the counter, no cameras- 90 would never even think of taking one dollar. 9 would take anything from one buck to shovel all of the cash down their pants, in a bag, heck walk out with bundles of cash in their arms if they could figure out how not to get caught. And one was trying to break into the room to take it all before they even knew you would let them in. Security must be in place to create perception of control or the store descends into a theft pit. Yes there are a couple of professionals that will hit daily using the methods I have discussed here - but there are far more that given the right opportunity will decide to steal. There has to be a balance, nobody can be made to feel they've been discriminated against, so the challenge is how do you treat everyone the same way when you know you must put insurmountable obstacles to the most commonly used methods in front of the worst of your thieves and your potential thieves?

[storewanderer]

I supervised a store in a rare location where a bag ordinance was passed, and then repealed several years later. I also supervised a store in a city that passed an ordinance but then was unsure if their ordinance was superceded by the state or not so we had to abide by it for years until they resolved their legal situation. (Huntington Beach and Oceanside were the cities). In both cases shrink increased year over year more than 50% in the first full year of the bag ordinances and kept climbing at least 20bps each year until the ordinance was repealed/invalidated. Both stores returned to the standard of free disposable T-shirt bags as they were non food/non pharmacy stores so reusables were no longer mandated Shrink decreased by about 40% the first year after the repeal/invalidation. Nothing else significant changed in these stores and they were both statistical outliers to the Orange County and San Diego County market results. Reusable bags were documented as the theft device in dozens of LP incident reports for run outs in both locations. Unfortunately same issue has other retailers, only an LP agent could make an arrest. In another market in San Diego where I had such a high theft problem that I got an agent a few days a week they were arresting bag loaders 5 to 1 over other concealment methods (purses, shove down pants, conceal in storage).

The reusable bags are one of the most convenient ways to shoplift ever devised. They are easy to line with metallic material to prevent Checkpoint and Sensor magic alarms from going off. Keeper boxes stack neatly in them and the thief doesn't care if they steal those with the merchandise as they usually have keys which they bought on eBay or devised themselves.

I have complete confidence that the leading cause of increased and then decreased shrink was the reusables. The only reason for not seeing as much of a decrease in the first year after repeal was that many customers still used them but that dwindled over time and eventually only customers behaving suspiciously were bringing them in and trying to shop into them; few enough we could customer service them and I did task my teams with bringing them a cart or basket at the same time they ask for the customer not to shop into the bag. When it is only a few people it is easy to do this.

I saw the argument to leave normal shoppers alone, but the industry hasn't done that for decades and can't either. Lots of retail is set up to prevent theft and impact all customers the same way. Locked fitting rooms. Turnstiles and one way doors. Lock up cases. Keeper boxes and alarms. Unfortunately I have always heard it said by LP folks that if you took 100 people and let them sit in a room with a million dollars on the counter, no cameras- 90 would never even think of taking one dollar. 9 would take anything from one buck to shovel all of the cash down their pants, in a bag, heck walk out with bundles of cash in their arms if they could figure out how not to get caught. And one was trying to break into the room to take it all before they even knew you would let them in. Security must be in place to create perception of control or the store descends into a theft pit. Yes there are a couple of professionals that will hit daily using the methods I have discussed here - but there are far more that given the right opportunity will decide to steal. There has to be a balance, nobody can be made to feel they've been discriminated against, so the challenge is how do you treat everyone the same way when you know you must put insurmountable obstacles to the most commonly used methods in front of the worst of your thieves and your potential thieves?

What is interesting in California is the retail theft you keep hearing about seems to center with Target, Wal Mart, and the Drugstore Chains. Why? Because they are all subject to the bag ordinance. So they are easy targets.

In California basically the only stores subject to the statewide bag ordinance are stores with a liquor license. So that basically means the entire mall can (and does) keeps using thin bags/free bags for everyone. Nobody brings reusable bags to the mall in California (other than shoplifters). There are some cities that subjected ALL retailers to the bag ordinances but it is relatively few (San Francisco is one of them).

In these other states that have passed the bag ordinance, it applies to ALL retailers across the board statewide. So we will see how this shakes out. Will the situation end up being that the theft is "spread" among all retailers to the point that nobody really cares? Or in the case of the few retailers that do care, the government affairs department refuses to speak out against the bag ban because marketing is afraid doing so will make "the company look like it doesn't care about the environment" so they collectively tell operations and loss prevention to stuff it with any concerns over theft from reusable bags and ultimately upper management just tells pricing to just up prices to cover the theft (until they have to close the store due to too much theft)?

The other issue with reusable bags in a power center is that if a customer has something in one of them, they can easily say it was from another store since many of these stores sell the same things. And unless the store watched that customer take that item off their shelf and had their eye on that customer the entire remaining time in the store, come checkout time, the customer can just choose what they want to pay for and what they claim they "bought somewhere else and just had in the reusable bag."

And I am sure in some cases items just so happen to "fall" into the customer's reusable bag.

Talking to loss prevention people in states where nobody uses reusable bags (entire middle of the US basically), almost every theft you hear about is using reusable bags. I hate to say they basically assume people are going to steal when they show up with reusable bags, but unfortunately the shoplifters keep proving them right.

[Super S]

Another thing I am seeing are people who are honest and pay for their purchases, but are absolutely adamant about refusing to pay for bags, and just put their items back in the cart. I have seen this often at WinCo (where you bag your own groceries) as well as Walmart and others which have self checkout. Many of these customers are stopped at the door at Walmart, but generally are not harassed if they have a receipt. But there are people who do not save receipts and instead rely on their phones to document all purchases, and more than once I have seen receipts left behind at self-checkout, and people fumbling with their phone to show that they just paid with their card, phone app, or whatever at the exit, clogging up the line. But this also illustrates another point, with some people not wanting to pay for bags, and some merchandise not having sensors, it could be relatively easy to walk out the door with shoplifted items. A store like WinCo can get really busy at times (more so than Walmart) and they do not have sensors, or people at the door monitoring things except for the self-checkout attendant, which is usually facing away from the doors. It could be relatively easy to blend in.

[Romr123]

Yeah, the "bag it in the trunk" crowd really took off over all income levels with Aldi/Costco---if you're in the habit of that why WOULDN"T you do it at WinCo/WM/etc.

[veteran+]

This is all kind of comical.

Whenever new tech comes around under the guise of "faster", "cheaper", efficient", "convenient", "environmental" and even "you are in control", it is all about business operators saving money for themselves via reducing labor and other expenses. This includes the Amazon like technologies being played with (though that is proving to be a money pit).

Thing is, good or bad ideas need supervision (labor) and quick fine tuning (labor). Think about self checkouts that are under supervised or unattended.

All of that creates delicious pathways for people to steal. Why cram a huge sirloin steak in between your legs (I have seen this all over from NY to FL to CO to CA) when the store gives you the means to walk out with a bag or the opportunity to make believe at the self checkout, etc, etc?

Heck, we even let people come in with backpacks and such.

Also, that 90% out of a 100% not stealing if no one is looking? Nah.................. I believe it is much higher than that!

Top notch customer service, bodies on the floor, anticipating customers' needs, "can I help you find something", etc. is what diminishes theft. But all of that requires LABOR. Well trained of course.

BTW................I have seen shoppers at the Beverly Center mall and many others with reusable bags in tow when shopping.