Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

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Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by BatteryMill »

Several news articles are alleging that the SuperTarget brand is making a comeback through a remodel in Naperville, Illinois.
The latter article echoes the "SuperTarget" brand name from the company contracted for renovation construction.

This is quite strange, as I've never seen such an instance during the time the SuperTarget name disappeared as the lowercase wordmark was introduced. Yet a name change might be suggested since said wordmark appeared on one of the building's photos. Thoughts on this, everybody?
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by ClownLoach »

Well, it looked like the new prototype Target that opened a few months ago in Katy, TX was built to be a SuperTarget based on the store map shown, but then it proved not to be such.

I know little of Chicago area but Naperville seems to be a place where upscale concepts get tested.

One of the biggest mistakes Target has made in the last decade is eliminating the sub-brands of SuperTarget, CityTarget and Target Express. Greatland wasn't really relevant anymore and I guess City isn't either, but it makes no sense whatsoever to fail to set customer expectations on either the smallest or largest formats in the fleet. I recently took a friend to one of these formerly SuperTarget stores and they were amazed by it - they had never been in one and didn't realize that location was one since the sign just says "target." They should differentiate both these and the mini stores from the rest of the chain.

There were several years where any SuperTarget store would have been the worst condition building in the area, and some documented examples on this site of stores where they completed a remodel deliberately 'downgrading' them to a regular Target by permanently closing all service counters. Clearly they were moving in a direction of killing the concept entirely or just neglecting it to death. I was in a SuperTarget in Orlando near Walt Disney World in 2016 and it was in old Kmart level condition including carpets and floors with duct tape holding them together, and still had the old red-yellow-green-blue signage and burned out neon all over the place plus faded cracking plastic signs and old school dim humming fluorescent lights. The single worst condition Target I had ever shopped.

Then in 2017 Target started fully remodeling many of the neglected SuperTarget locations and left the grocery area largely intact with upgraded graphics, fixtures and lighting but the same basic merchandise as before. These stores look really good now. (That previously mentioned Orlando location got the remodel in 2017 and looked fantastic when I was back that year).

I believe that the timing of the SuperTarget build out was the reason for its lack of success. Many of these stores went up right before the housing crisis of 2008-2009 and they were big, expensive stores surrounded by canceled developments. I remember one in Phoenix area where a giant big box center was built that looked like it would have at least a dozen other box stores but only SuperTarget opened up and the rest of the parking lot was fenced off. Same thing happened in Murrieta where to this day half of the shopping center is fenced off dirt (although it will finally get built out starting this year, only a decade and a half late). So many of these were out on the fringes and in remote areas that it would create the appearance that these stores were complete flops when in fact the location was the problem and not the concept for the most part.

Target has already stated that they are moving towards big stores again after half a decade of dabbling in small format. Getting the SuperTarget format right once and for all would improve the productivity of the larger and thereby more expensive buildings they're going to construct going forward. If they started building these again and found a way to improve their execution of service bakery and deli (which right now are almost non existent), improved meats, and continue the recent improvements in produce they will have a hit on their hands. I could see these stores being wildly successful in the Los Angeles market if they would start converting the larger ex-Greatlands to SuperTarget.
Last edited by ClownLoach on March 8th, 2023, 5:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by ClownLoach »

I dug into this some more.

The current Naperville, IL store already is and has been a SuperTarget, probably was built as one. It already has deli, bakery etc. departments. The pictures online look like it was last remodeled in the early 2010's with the red circle neon. Most of the pictures show a old SuperTarget sign. I was initially confused by this and another store a few miles south on the same highway but after carefully rereading the articles I determined I was looking at the correct store that is being remodeled.

So nothing "new" that we know of is going into this store, it is probably just getting the full face lift it needs and will look similar to Menifee, CA when completed. But if they start hanging the SuperTarget signs again that will be a very smart change.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by BatteryMill »

ClownLoach wrote: March 8th, 2023, 5:10 pm Well, it looked like the new prototype Target that opened a few months ago in Katy, TX was built to be a SuperTarget based on the store map shown, but then it proved not to be such.

I know little of Chicago area but Naperville seems to be a place where upscale concepts get tested.

One of the biggest mistakes Target has made in the last decade is eliminating the sub-brands of SuperTarget, CityTarget and Target Express. Greatland wasn't really relevant anymore and I guess City isn't either, but it makes no sense whatsoever to fail to set customer expectations on either the smallest or largest formats in the fleet. I recently took a friend to one of these formerly SuperTarget stores and they were amazed by it - they had never been in one and didn't realize that location was one since the sign just says "target." They should differentiate both these and the mini stores from the rest of the chain.

There were several years where any SuperTarget store would have been the worst condition building in the area, and some documented examples on this site of stores where they completed a remodel deliberately 'downgrading' them to a regular Target by permanently closing all service counters. Clearly they were moving in a direction of killing the concept entirely or just neglecting it to death. I was in a SuperTarget in Orlando near Walt Disney World in 2016 and it was in old Kmart level condition including carpets and floors with duct tape holding them together, and still had the old red-yellow-green-blue signage and burned out neon all over the place plus faded cracking plastic signs and old school dim humming fluorescent lights. The single worst condition Target I had ever shopped.

Then in 2017 Target started fully remodeling many of the neglected SuperTarget locations and left the grocery area largely intact with upgraded graphics, fixtures and lighting but the same basic merchandise as before. These stores look really good now. (That previously mentioned Orlando location got the remodel in 2017 and looked fantastic when I was back that year).

I believe that the timing of the SuperTarget build out was the reason for its lack of success. Many of these stores went up right before the housing crisis of 2008-2009 and they were big, expensive stores surrounded by canceled developments. I remember one in Phoenix area where a giant big box center was built that looked like it would have at least a dozen other box stores but only SuperTarget opened up and the rest of the parking lot was fenced off. Same thing happened in Murrieta where to this day half of the shopping center is fenced off dirt (although it will finally get built out starting this year, only a decade and a half late). So many of these were out on the fringes and in remote areas that it would create the appearance that these stores were complete flops when in fact the location was the problem and not the concept for the most part.

Target has already stated that they are moving towards big stores again after half a decade of dabbling in small format. Getting the SuperTarget format right once and for all would improve the productivity of the larger and thereby more expensive buildings they're going to construct going forward. If they started building these again and found a way to improve their execution of service bakery and deli (which right now are almost non existent), improved meats, and continue the recent improvements in produce they will have a hit on their hands. I could see these stores being wildly successful in the Los Angeles market if they would start converting the larger ex-Greatlands to SuperTarget.
I had no idea Katy-Elyson was destined to be a Super, especially in recent years. It seems on par in size with the several stores Target's built over the years but different in several ways.

In press releases Target simply stated that "they're all Target" (implies small-formats were looked down upon, not a good answer in my opinion), though the press speculated this move was helpful for omnichannel (expanding City/Express for order pickup purposes). I can somewhat understand these reasons, but it can mislead guests looking to purchase physically, as well as look unprofessional to strip any difference across the board.

Haven't been to an older Target in a while, thought they were always maintained well.

I still think PFresh may be the biggest culprit in the phasing-out of new SuperTargets. I do quite like what ST has to offer, but I feel like it was better suited for the economic situation at the time since virtually any location in any region could support a decent grocery platter. Your theory of recession cancellations seems quite plausible too, but then again I don't know if regular-size Targets were targeted just the same.
ClownLoach wrote: March 8th, 2023, 5:22 pm I dug into this some more.

The current Naperville, IL store already is and has been a SuperTarget, probably was built as one. It already has deli, bakery etc. departments. The pictures online look like it was last remodeled in the early 2010's with the red circle neon. Most of the pictures show a old SuperTarget sign. I was initially confused by this and another store a few miles south on the same highway but after carefully rereading the articles I determined I was looking at the correct store that is being remodeled.

So nothing "new" that we know of is going into this store, it is probably just getting the full face lift it needs and will look similar to Menifee, CA when completed. But if they start hanging the SuperTarget signs again that will be a very smart change.
I am aware this was a SuperTarget. I've seen a stock photo of a Target that looks like it with the lowercase logo, though I cannot tell if they made a signage change pre-remodel or are sticking with SuperTarget for this one.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by ClownLoach »

BatteryMill wrote: March 8th, 2023, 8:10 pm
ClownLoach wrote: March 8th, 2023, 5:10 pm Well, it looked like the new prototype Target that opened a few months ago in Katy, TX was built to be a SuperTarget based on the store map shown, but then it proved not to be such.

I know little of Chicago area but Naperville seems to be a place where upscale concepts get tested.

One of the biggest mistakes Target has made in the last decade is eliminating the sub-brands of SuperTarget, CityTarget and Target Express. Greatland wasn't really relevant anymore and I guess City isn't either, but it makes no sense whatsoever to fail to set customer expectations on either the smallest or largest formats in the fleet. I recently took a friend to one of these formerly SuperTarget stores and they were amazed by it - they had never been in one and didn't realize that location was one since the sign just says "target." They should differentiate both these and the mini stores from the rest of the chain.

There were several years where any SuperTarget store would have been the worst condition building in the area, and some documented examples on this site of stores where they completed a remodel deliberately 'downgrading' them to a regular Target by permanently closing all service counters. Clearly they were moving in a direction of killing the concept entirely or just neglecting it to death. I was in a SuperTarget in Orlando near Walt Disney World in 2016 and it was in old Kmart level condition including carpets and floors with duct tape holding them together, and still had the old red-yellow-green-blue signage and burned out neon all over the place plus faded cracking plastic signs and old school dim humming fluorescent lights. The single worst condition Target I had ever shopped.

Then in 2017 Target started fully remodeling many of the neglected SuperTarget locations and left the grocery area largely intact with upgraded graphics, fixtures and lighting but the same basic merchandise as before. These stores look really good now. (That previously mentioned Orlando location got the remodel in 2017 and looked fantastic when I was back that year).

I believe that the timing of the SuperTarget build out was the reason for its lack of success. Many of these stores went up right before the housing crisis of 2008-2009 and they were big, expensive stores surrounded by canceled developments. I remember one in Phoenix area where a giant big box center was built that looked like it would have at least a dozen other box stores but only SuperTarget opened up and the rest of the parking lot was fenced off. Same thing happened in Murrieta where to this day half of the shopping center is fenced off dirt (although it will finally get built out starting this year, only a decade and a half late). So many of these were out on the fringes and in remote areas that it would create the appearance that these stores were complete flops when in fact the location was the problem and not the concept for the most part.

Target has already stated that they are moving towards big stores again after half a decade of dabbling in small format. Getting the SuperTarget format right once and for all would improve the productivity of the larger and thereby more expensive buildings they're going to construct going forward. If they started building these again and found a way to improve their execution of service bakery and deli (which right now are almost non existent), improved meats, and continue the recent improvements in produce they will have a hit on their hands. I could see these stores being wildly successful in the Los Angeles market if they would start converting the larger ex-Greatlands to SuperTarget.
I had no idea Katy-Elyson was destined to be a Super, especially in recent years. It seems on par in size with the several stores Target's built over the years but different in several ways.

In press releases Target simply stated that "they're all Target" (implies small-formats were looked down upon, not a good answer in my opinion), though the press speculated this move was helpful for omnichannel (expanding City/Express for order pickup purposes). I can somewhat understand these reasons, but it can mislead guests looking to purchase physically, as well as look unprofessional to strip any difference across the board.

Haven't been to an older Target in a while, thought they were always maintained well.

I still think PFresh may be the biggest culprit in the phasing-out of new SuperTargets. I do quite like what ST has to offer, but I feel like it was better suited for the economic situation at the time since virtually any location in any region could support a decent grocery platter. Your theory of recession cancellations seems quite plausible too, but then again I don't know if regular-size Targets were targeted just the same.
ClownLoach wrote: March 8th, 2023, 5:22 pm I dug into this some more.

The current Naperville, IL store already is and has been a SuperTarget, probably was built as one. It already has deli, bakery etc. departments. The pictures online look like it was last remodeled in the early 2010's with the red circle neon. Most of the pictures show a old SuperTarget sign. I was initially confused by this and another store a few miles south on the same highway but after carefully rereading the articles I determined I was looking at the correct store that is being remodeled.

So nothing "new" that we know of is going into this store, it is probably just getting the full face lift it needs and will look similar to Menifee, CA when completed. But if they start hanging the SuperTarget signs again that will be a very smart change.
I am aware this was a SuperTarget. I've seen a stock photo of a Target that looks like it with the lowercase logo, though I cannot tell if they made a signage change pre-remodel or are sticking with SuperTarget for this one.
Target.com places store maps on the desktop version of the website. The initial map of Katy-Elison looked like it had spaces for deli/bakery, but the store pictures revealed it didn't actually have them. Nowhere did it state that it was a "super" other than the odd quotes from Target corporate that this store offered "the complete assortment of all of Target's product lines". That quote, the square footage, plus the initial map led me and others to speculate it was a rebirth of "super.". It wasn't.

Target does not spend as much on maintenance as they used to. Stores used to have full time maintenance personnel on staff at each location and they were fully trained.

Remodels have changed too. They used to always replace the entire floor in departments being relaid or remodeled, now they just strip the tile and allow fixture rust stains and dents to stay there. They reuse gondolas instead of replacing now. They do spend money in different ways, with improved special fixtures, lighting, ceiling structures and signing though.

But the most neglected stores I've ever seen were SuperTarget locations around 2015-2016. They were run into the ground despite not appearing to even be busy in some cases. I saw this in Orlando, Dallas, and SoCal. It was apparent that for a while these stores were put on a maintenance freeze which, coupled with known "de supering" in Utah and elsewhere plus the "one brand" change made it seem like the entire Super format was being killed. Then they started to fully remodel these stores in 2017. Some of these are now the best looking Target stores I can name, including that Orlando one near WDW and Menifee CA (which is supposedly the #1 Super location in the chain and #6 in the company overall).

It will be interesting to see if they move back to using the Super branding and if this Naperville store receives updates in the grocery section that are something newer and fancier than the 2020 Menifee remodel or other recent Supers that got refreshed or remodeled.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: March 8th, 2023, 11:45 pm

Target.com places store maps on the desktop version of the website. The initial map of Katy-Elison looked like it had spaces for deli/bakery, but the store pictures revealed it didn't actually have them. Nowhere did it state that it was a "super" other than the odd quotes from Target corporate that this store offered "the complete assortment of all of Target's product lines". That quote, the square footage, plus the initial map led me and others to speculate it was a rebirth of "super.". It wasn't.

Target does not spend as much on maintenance as they used to. Stores used to have full time maintenance personnel on staff at each location and they were fully trained.

Remodels have changed too. They used to always replace the entire floor in departments being relaid or remodeled, now they just strip the tile and allow fixture rust stains and dents to stay there. They reuse gondolas instead of replacing now. They do spend money in different ways, with improved special fixtures, lighting, ceiling structures and signing though.

But the most neglected stores I've ever seen were SuperTarget locations around 2015-2016. They were run into the ground despite not appearing to even be busy in some cases. I saw this in Orlando, Dallas, and SoCal. It was apparent that for a while these stores were put on a maintenance freeze which, coupled with known "de supering" in Utah and elsewhere plus the "one brand" change made it seem like the entire Super format was being killed. Then they started to fully remodel these stores in 2017. Some of these are now the best looking Target stores I can name, including that Orlando one near WDW and Menifee CA (which is supposedly the #1 Super location in the chain and #6 in the company overall).

It will be interesting to see if they move back to using the Super branding and if this Naperville store receives updates in the grocery section that are something newer and fancier than the 2020 Menifee remodel or other recent Supers that got refreshed or remodeled.
Target remodels in Reno area have been interesting.
Carson City: remodeled 2020 (I think): store previously had original 1995 interior (neon) and zero capex from opening day but was in great shape (no volume). This store still has no P-Fresh and retains the 1995 layout even after the remodel. In the remodel they basically flipped Food Avenue to Starbucks, put in self checkout, remodeled the bathrooms, re-carpeted clothing, and threw up some new fixtures in cosmetics and electronics. Same shelves, same white tile floor, same lighting. They didn't touch customer service/pick up. The remodel here really improved customer perception of the store as it looked so outdated before. But really in my view it is not any better from a merchandising/presentation perspective than before; it was always neat and organized (again, no volume) but felt like it had less stuff than a busier store.

Reno: Greatland Store, already had a couple of remodels over the years, adding in P-Fresh. This one they expanded Cosmetics and re-did the floor there, also re-carpeted clothing and put new displays. Again the rest of the store kept the white tile floor original from late 90's and most of the shelving throughout the store is also original to the late 90's. They did a major re-configuration of customer service/pick up. This remodel took a year, but did nothing to improve the store. The store looks like literal garbage. The store is far worse now than before the remodel simply because since the remodel they can't seem to keep it stocked.

Sparks: Opened around 2010. Had original interior. Currently being remodeled. They are in the process of removing all or part of the white tile floor. The cement finish work they have done so far shows no signs of the old floor glue or anything, it looks really good. This is looking like it is going to be a very major remodel.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by BatteryMill »

ClownLoach wrote: March 8th, 2023, 11:45 pm Target.com places store maps on the desktop version of the website. The initial map of Katy-Elison looked like it had spaces for deli/bakery, but the store pictures revealed it didn't actually have them. Nowhere did it state that it was a "super" other than the odd quotes from Target corporate that this store offered "the complete assortment of all of Target's product lines". That quote, the square footage, plus the initial map led me and others to speculate it was a rebirth of "super.". It wasn't.

Target does not spend as much on maintenance as they used to. Stores used to have full time maintenance personnel on staff at each location and they were fully trained.

Remodels have changed too. They used to always replace the entire floor in departments being relaid or remodeled, now they just strip the tile and allow fixture rust stains and dents to stay there. They reuse gondolas instead of replacing now. They do spend money in different ways, with improved special fixtures, lighting, ceiling structures and signing though.

But the most neglected stores I've ever seen were SuperTarget locations around 2015-2016. They were run into the ground despite not appearing to even be busy in some cases. I saw this in Orlando, Dallas, and SoCal. It was apparent that for a while these stores were put on a maintenance freeze which, coupled with known "de supering" in Utah and elsewhere plus the "one brand" change made it seem like the entire Super format was being killed. Then they started to fully remodel these stores in 2017. Some of these are now the best looking Target stores I can name, including that Orlando one near WDW and Menifee CA (which is supposedly the #1 Super location in the chain and #6 in the company overall).

It will be interesting to see if they move back to using the Super branding and if this Naperville store receives updates in the grocery section that are something newer and fancier than the 2020 Menifee remodel or other recent Supers that got refreshed or remodeled.
Thank you for the feature - I did not know they brought it back! That being said I'm not sure how much grocery this store has compared to your standard PFresh location or a Super, and another thing that would set it apart is if produce is sold with barcodes (AFAIK only STs have weight scales at checkout).

Target does prioritize remodels differently. Previously they would mold stores into the image of the current prototype inside and out, now they stick with the bones of the old while slapping on a new coat of paint, or go the other way and custom-tailor everything.

Correction, the phasing out of the SuperTarget brand occurred independently of that of City and Express. The last new ST was built in 2011, though the brand would be retained in remodels through the beginning of the P17 era, believe it or not. It was only when the lowercase rolled out that Supers were also unified.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by BatteryMill »

Also it could be tricky to restore the SuperTarget brand since the deli + bakery are typically weak, and features like bulk food, meat & seafood counter as well as other services are all long-gone. This is something I'd like to see Target working on, personally.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by storewanderer »

BatteryMill wrote: March 9th, 2023, 7:15 pm Also it could be tricky to restore the SuperTarget brand since the deli + bakery are typically weak, and features like bulk food, meat & seafood counter as well as other services are all long-gone. This is something I'd like to see Target working on, personally.
Target should have been able to get perimeter departments in the quality of Meijer. Yet their perimeter departments are the worst of any supercenter format ever and it has been this way basically from the time Super Target started. I find their perimeter/fresh program in Super Target more limited in assortment and comparable in product quality to Wal Mart Supercenter. Far below what Super Kmart offered. Far below Meijer. Also at higher prices than all of the above. So far below Fred Meyer words cannot describe how far below it is (but it is cheaper than Fred Meyer, yes).

The early Super Targets had perimeter employees dressed up as chefs. It was a little much, but they were putting out an effort. Meat was always prepack, never cut in store, they never even tried on that. Customer response to the perimeter departments with the employees dressed up as chefs was weak and eventually these departments got expense cut as they did not perform. Volumes were low and the departments just always looked and felt sad and lacking.

I do not see Target investing the labor to get fresh service departments right. That ship has long sailed. Now all efforts are on .com fulfillment.
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Re: Is "SuperTarget" making a comeback?

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: March 10th, 2023, 12:29 am Target should have been able to get perimeter departments in the quality of Meijer. Yet their perimeter departments are the worst of any supercenter format ever and it has been this way basically from the time Super Target started. I find their perimeter/fresh program in Super Target more limited in assortment and comparable in product quality to Wal Mart Supercenter. Far below what Super Kmart offered. Far below Meijer. Also at higher prices than all of the above. So far below Fred Meyer words cannot describe how far below it is (but it is cheaper than Fred Meyer, yes).
Perhaps the question is, does that really matter for the majority of the country.

Since no one has Super Kmart any longer, and only some areas have Meyer or Meijer, anywhere else that Target wanted to have a Super format, the only thing to compare to would be Walmart. So, if their offerings are comparable to that chain, most wouldn't know what they are missing (or not really missing, since they have no option to go to those other stores even occasionally, if at all).

Much like people complain about any grocery store not being Wegman's (since they've seen one here or there that they have been, or maybe even lived previously), but if the nearest Wegman's is hours away, people aren't going to go there over whatever stores are local to them, no matter how much they may prefer it.
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