Chick-fil-a Data Breach

storewanderer
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: March 17th, 2023, 3:52 pm He says there is 1 milkshake machine. You have to wait for drive thru to finish and vis a versa. There is one spiget. You have to flush the previous flavor first if you have a different flavor.

Crazy stuff like that.
That is what I figured the issue was. That is their standard design though. They probably would be well served to add a second milkshake machine based on the volume they do but I am not sure they built with space or wiring for that. Also a machine that had a separate nozzle for each flavor would probably work better so they could pull multiple cups at once. I suspect 80% of the orders are Vanilla though so not sure how much that would actually help. Those machines are not fun to clean either. Some better/newer ones do have an automatic cleaning cycle but I think sometimes it still needs a more manual cleaning.

The part that I find that gets chaotic at In N Out is the fry area. Between all of the orders coming at them, plus the "special orders" of animal fry, well fry, light fry, cheese fry, no salt fry, etc., that seems like a very chaotic fry station despite having just one "fry" size on the menu.

Wendys has a similar issue with frosty. They used to have a machine at drive through and a second machine at front counter. Then they started to sell a chocolate frosty and a vanilla frosty. So now there is one machine. So people are walking all over to serve frosty depending what flavor the customer orders.
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by veteran+ »

Yup!

Proclaimed to be influenced by the family's military background (organisation, discipline, uniformity, etc.), it is hardly that.

You should see how it is for the clerks to input orders with addendums..................oy vay!
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by mjhale »

storewanderer wrote: March 16th, 2023, 10:35 pm But none of this seems to be stopping the crowds at their locations. They are doing an unbelievable business almost everywhere I go.
Do people still view Chik-Fil-A as the "anti-fast food" fast food type of restaurant? Sort of how people think Target is somehow better than Walmart because Target has a shiny facade and somewhat upgraded product when at its core they are selling a lot of the same stuff that Walmart sells? I also think that they is an attraction to Chik-Fil-A from the so called traditionalists and the religious right. I heard our local righty talk station plugging Chik-Fil-A as the place to eat because you won't be supporting whatever the latest Happy Meal toy that the far right thinks is liberal woke culture. However you put it and politics aside, as has been said here, Chik-Fil-A isn't what it used to be. Even before the pandemic their interior service in my area was slow and while the staffing is nice to see it doesn't improve service significantly and it has to hit their bottom line hence the price increases. I'll stick with the Popeyes spicy chicken sandwich. That has been a good product, served consistently since they released it in my area.
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by ClownLoach »

veteran+ wrote: March 17th, 2023, 3:52 pm He says there is 1 milkshake machine. You have to wait for drive thru to finish and vis a versa. There is one spiget. You have to flush the previous flavor first if you have a different flavor.

Crazy stuff like that.
I only see one milkshake machine at any In-N-Out.

I think their Colorado launch had incredibly bad timing. They opened in the peak of COVID chaos in 2020. They famously had hundreds of COVID cases at the new stores for months after opening and were doing group scheduling as "cohorts" so if one group caught COVID they could all quarantine and a new group could be brought in (versus one person potentially infecting a hundred workers or more). Supposedly the stores opened with four hour lines and off duty police paid to manage traffic. I would imagine that these stores are probably going to be intensely focused on by the company and brought in line.

I disagree on the technology piece as well, INO was an innovator of new tech such as tablets for ordering in the drive through line, credit card acceptance, and such. They have a unique rhythm they must operate in to be efficient as each burger takes approximately five minutes to cook fresh to order yet they still maintain customization. Therefore they will drop a row of patties on the grill all at once which could be one order or six different orders. A timer then signals when to season, flip, place cheese and then get off the grill. No reason to buy complicated pretty looking touch screens and such as those systems are designed for places that batch cook patties and put in a steam table, or scoop fillings like a taco place and so on.

I would imagine that a fast food worker from elsewhere would go crazy in the INO environment, and an INO worker would hate it at Jack in the Box or another such place. The final straw on INO is this - instead of buying multi million dollar kitchen technology like the light up assembly line of a McDonald's where you slap down precooked components out of greasy trays, INO simply takes orders on a cash register, prints order slips, has the kitchen make and assemble the order, and most importantly pays Management between 80K for a low level assistant all the way to 200K+ for the Store Manager. And that $200K Store Manager ALWAYS worked their way up from a cashier to a fry cook to a grill cook and so on. If they are relocated to a new state to grow the company they are given a long contract of guaranteed employment and a massive relocation package. So are they wrong to skip buying the food factory computer system for a few million and pay real people to run the place instead? I don't think so.
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by ClownLoach »

mjhale wrote: March 18th, 2023, 9:57 am
storewanderer wrote: March 16th, 2023, 10:35 pm But none of this seems to be stopping the crowds at their locations. They are doing an unbelievable business almost everywhere I go.
Do people still view Chik-Fil-A as the "anti-fast food" fast food type of restaurant? Sort of how people think Target is somehow better than Walmart because Target has a shiny facade and somewhat upgraded product when at its core they are selling a lot of the same stuff that Walmart sells? I also think that they is an attraction to Chik-Fil-A from the so called traditionalists and the religious right. I heard our local righty talk station plugging Chik-Fil-A as the place to eat because you won't be supporting whatever the latest Happy Meal toy that the far right thinks is liberal woke culture. However you put it and politics aside, as has been said here, Chik-Fil-A isn't what it used to be. Even before the pandemic their interior service in my area was slow and while the staffing is nice to see it doesn't improve service significantly and it has to hit their bottom line hence the price increases. I'll stick with the Popeyes spicy chicken sandwich. That has been a good product, served consistently since they released it in my area.
Chick-fil-A drives a lot of business through giveaways and promotions. For example our local NHL team scores 5 or more goals in a game and their app loads up a free sandwich for anyone in a 100+ mile radius. They go to local events like farmers markets and hand out cards redeemable for a free sandwich. And the points on their app seem to accumulate quickly and don't disappear after a few months like McDonald's. I didn't realize that I probably could eat there every day for a month and have a free sandwich every time, and I don't go that often but that's how many points I have. If you complain about an issue they bend over backwards to make it right and will generously compensate you for any inconvenience. I wouldn't be surprised if each restaurant has a hundred customers a day eating a free sandwich from some kind of local promotional event but they make it up with high margin sides and drinks.

I don't want to get political but from what I see they are less political and religious now that the founder passed away. And much of that may have been generated in the court of public opinion versus the company itself. People start to believe things that may not be real. I have seen multiple employees at multiple locations in Southern California with a company "rainbow" pin in the colors of the recent LGBTQIA+ flag. At one point a few years ago they were promoting a new location opening in the LA market and ran social media advertising introducing the operating partner and his husband. I think they are similar to Hobby Lobby and allow the public to advertise their perceived views, whether they're true or not, as long as it brings in money. (For marketing purposes Hobby Lobby famously started closing Sundays only in 2001 and then rewrote their company history that they were always a religious organization) Being guaranteed Sundays off in retail or food is a differentiating benefit which is very desirable and makes it easier to hire even if the employee is not religious. Truth is the only thing that these companies really worship is the dollar bill.
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by storewanderer »

The point of sale system In N Out uses is just a standard system. Many other fast food chains use it or have used it in the past. Currently the other major chain using that system in the US is KFC. Long John Silver also uses it if you can find one still in business. Overseas various other chains use it. In the past in the US it was used by Wendys, Boston Market, and some corporate Carls Jr. units but they all moved to different systems (some have been through multiple systems since then). That system supported credit card acceptance at Boston Market back 20 years- before In N Out accepted credit cards. So their ability to accept credit cards on that software was because it had already been developed for Boston Market. That system supported kiosk ordering 15 years ago (Carls Jr. had it at a few locations) so the tablets at In N Out are a natural extension of the technology that software provider developed for kiosk ordering.

Not to go too far off topic here but Boston Market was able to make that software work with their online ordering and the online orders came through the register and generated a receipt just like an in-store order. But they couldn't get it to run EMV Chip Cards (the Long John Silver version also still to this day cannot run EMV Chip Cards). Meanwhile KFC cannot make that software work with online ordering and has a completely separate interface, system, and screens in the back for online orders (but KFC can run EMV Chip cards, as can In N Out).

I think the reason customization may appear "difficult" to the In N Out cashier is due to the number of customization options In N Out offers. I have noticed at In N Out if they customize an item for you but miss something or you change your mind after they move to the next item they have to void the item out and start all over again which looks like a pain but is a common quirk of many different restaurant point of sale systems.

McDonalds is who started those free items when a sports team wins promotions on a regional level. Chickfila must just be trying to compete with them on those in some regions. I've never seen any of those promotions in NorCal for Chickfila. I receive random free items from Chickfila app usually from a specific location I've visited in the past. One location is currently giving a free item if you do a mobile order and type "eat more chicken" into the comment box of the mobile order. Wasn't real clear how that worked but a couple weeks after the visit I received a message in the app from that store stating due to my comment in the mobile order they were offering a free side of chicken noodle soup. I didn't end up getting back in time to redeem it before it expired unfortunately.

My impression as an outside observer is the religion thing is much stronger at In N Out than Chickfila. Chickfila is closed Sunday and it kind of stops there as far as the customer or employee sees it. At In N Out it isn't in everyone's face but it is there if you are paying attention. As Chickfila grows nationally and they're trying international again too, I think its culture is evolving significantly.

In N Out sort of seems to be selecting where to grow, to places that seem to align with its culture.

At the end of the day most customers appreciate the value of the product and service In N Out is offering.
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by veteran+ »

ClownLoach wrote: March 18th, 2023, 2:39 pm
veteran+ wrote: March 17th, 2023, 3:52 pm He says there is 1 milkshake machine. You have to wait for drive thru to finish and vis a versa. There is one spiget. You have to flush the previous flavor first if you have a different flavor.

Crazy stuff like that.
I only see one milkshake machine at any In-N-Out.

I think their Colorado launch had incredibly bad timing. They opened in the peak of COVID chaos in 2020. They famously had hundreds of COVID cases at the new stores for months after opening and were doing group scheduling as "cohorts" so if one group caught COVID they could all quarantine and a new group could be brought in (versus one person potentially infecting a hundred workers or more). Supposedly the stores opened with four hour lines and off duty police paid to manage traffic. I would imagine that these stores are probably going to be intensely focused on by the company and brought in line.

I disagree on the technology piece as well, INO was an innovator of new tech such as tablets for ordering in the drive through line, credit card acceptance, and such. They have a unique rhythm they must operate in to be efficient as each burger takes approximately five minutes to cook fresh to order yet they still maintain customization. Therefore they will drop a row of patties on the grill all at once which could be one order or six different orders. A timer then signals when to season, flip, place cheese and then get off the grill. No reason to buy complicated pretty looking touch screens and such as those systems are designed for places that batch cook patties and put in a steam table, or scoop fillings like a taco place and so on.

I would imagine that a fast food worker from elsewhere would go crazy in the INO environment, and an INO worker would hate it at Jack in the Box or another such place. The final straw on INO is this - instead of buying multi million dollar kitchen technology like the light up assembly line of a McDonald's where you slap down precooked components out of greasy trays, INO simply takes orders on a cash register, prints order slips, has the kitchen make and assemble the order, and most importantly pays Management between 80K for a low level assistant all the way to 200K+ for the Store Manager. And that $200K Store Manager ALWAYS worked their way up from a cashier to a fry cook to a grill cook and so on. If they are relocated to a new state to grow the company they are given a long contract of guaranteed employment and a massive relocation package. So are they wrong to skip buying the food factory computer system for a few million and pay real people to run the place instead? I don't think so.
I do not know what to tell you but from the inside, via my friend, it is not what you say. Ordering is totally discombobulated. This results in many orders being thrown away and re-ordered. Making changes per customer requests causes problems and defaults back to the original order and strange things like that. Employees waiting to use the milkshake machine and having to rinse in between different flavors is crazy.

He has never worked in a fast food business before, so he does not have a bias for or against. Maybe this location is an outlier. He finds it very chaotic, not efficient, and employees stepping all over each other doing the same thing in different ways. Also several "leads" giving conflicting direction. Despite the above and MORE, he says everyone is happy and nice.

Yes, they do pay their employees more than any of their competitors and their Store Managers do very well. The store is always busy and the weekends are insane. So I guess all of this works for them ;)
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: March 19th, 2023, 7:29 am

I do not know what to tell you but from the inside, via my friend, it is not what you say. Ordering is totally discombobulated. This results in many orders being thrown away and re-ordered. Making changes per customer requests causes problems and defaults back to the original order and strange things like that. Employees waiting to use the milkshake machine and having to rinse in between different flavors is crazy.

He has never worked in a fast food business before, so he does not have a bias for or against. Maybe this location is an outlier. He finds it very chaotic, not efficient, and employees stepping all over each other doing the same thing in different ways. Also several "leads" giving conflicting direction. Despite the above and MORE, he says everyone is happy and nice.

Yes, they do pay their employees more than any of their competitors and their Store Managers do very well. The store is always busy and the weekends are insane. So I guess all of this works for them ;)
Yes, that is a system issue with modifications to orders. Common to many restaurant point of sale systems if you modify an item then have to go back and "modify the modification" so it is like you start over again.

For example let's say I go to In N Out and I tell them I want a Hamburger, Well Done, Grilled Onion, Green Chile, Pickles, and Light Mustard. In N Out can serve you a Raw or Grilled Onion Slice... the order taker screws up and just punches my order as Onion (so that will be raw, not grilled). I see this mistake on the screen and bring it to their attention. They have to start all over with my screwy order and I have to repeat all of my customizations back to them.

The order takers sound like they are the weak link here and need to be trained better on the register in order to ensure orders are punched accurately. The system is a bit odd, but as long as the time is spent by the order taker and customer ordering to get it right, then everything else should be fine. Whoever is managing the location probably needs to put some significant pressure on the order takers to ensure they are listening to the customer and also repeating back the order in the end for accuracy, and put the best communicating employees into the order taking position (many younger employees are not very social anymore I notice and order taking very much requires someone who is comfortable communicating verbally and quickly).

In the past in the fast food business the standard procedure when a customer ordered food was for the order taker to repeat the order back to the customer for accuracy. What I am noticing when observing locations lately is often employees do not bother to repeat back orders. In the circumstance where an employee actually does repeat the order back to the customer, the customer does not seem to even listen to the employee and is either waiving cash at the employee or has their credit card out and wants to put it through the card reader rather than listen to the order being repeated and confirm it is accurate.

The fast food business is responding the best it can to the level of order customization that occurs today (like the screwy In N Out example I order that I use above). Frankly with the level of customization the current customers expect of the coffee, burger, and mexican concepts, app or kiosk based ordering is the best solution for those situations.
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by babs »

ClownLoach wrote: March 18th, 2023, 2:52 pm
mjhale wrote: March 18th, 2023, 9:57 am
storewanderer wrote: March 16th, 2023, 10:35 pm But none of this seems to be stopping the crowds at their locations. They are doing an unbelievable business almost everywhere I go.
Do people still view Chik-Fil-A as the "anti-fast food" fast food type of restaurant? Sort of how people think Target is somehow better than Walmart because Target has a shiny facade and somewhat upgraded product when at its core they are selling a lot of the same stuff that Walmart sells? I also think that they is an attraction to Chik-Fil-A from the so called traditionalists and the religious right. I heard our local righty talk station plugging Chik-Fil-A as the place to eat because you won't be supporting whatever the latest Happy Meal toy that the far right thinks is liberal woke culture. However you put it and politics aside, as has been said here, Chik-Fil-A isn't what it used to be. Even before the pandemic their interior service in my area was slow and while the staffing is nice to see it doesn't improve service significantly and it has to hit their bottom line hence the price increases. I'll stick with the Popeyes spicy chicken sandwich. That has been a good product, served consistently since they released it in my area.
Chick-fil-A drives a lot of business through giveaways and promotions. For example our local NHL team scores 5 or more goals in a game and their app loads up a free sandwich for anyone in a 100+ mile radius. They go to local events like farmers markets and hand out cards redeemable for a free sandwich. And the points on their app seem to accumulate quickly and don't disappear after a few months like McDonald's. I didn't realize that I probably could eat there every day for a month and have a free sandwich every time, and I don't go that often but that's how many points I have. If you complain about an issue they bend over backwards to make it right and will generously compensate you for any inconvenience. I wouldn't be surprised if each restaurant has a hundred customers a day eating a free sandwich from some kind of local promotional event but they make it up with high margin sides and drinks.

I don't want to get political but from what I see they are less political and religious now that the founder passed away. And much of that may have been generated in the court of public opinion versus the company itself. People start to believe things that may not be real. I have seen multiple employees at multiple locations in Southern California with a company "rainbow" pin in the colors of the recent LGBTQIA+ flag. At one point a few years ago they were promoting a new location opening in the LA market and ran social media advertising introducing the operating partner and his husband. I think they are similar to Hobby Lobby and allow the public to advertise their perceived views, whether they're true or not, as long as it brings in money. (For marketing purposes Hobby Lobby famously started closing Sundays only in 2001 and then rewrote their company history that they were always a religious organization) Being guaranteed Sundays off in retail or food is a differentiating benefit which is very desirable and makes it easier to hire even if the employee is not religious. Truth is the only thing that these companies really worship is the dollar bill.
Maybe because the Chick-fil-A locations in the Portland market, but their restaurants deliver a far superior experience than any other fast food joint. The restaurants tend to be clean and in good condition. The employees are friendlier and deliver good service. Go to any other fast food joint and their employees don't give a sh**. I don't think the food is amazing (except for the Mac and cheese) but the atmosphere and service is what keeps me going back. Yes, standards are that low these days.
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Re: Chick-fil-a Data Breach

Post by storewanderer »

babs wrote: March 19th, 2023, 1:19 pm
Maybe because the Chick-fil-A locations in the Portland market, but their restaurants deliver a far superior experience than any other fast food joint. The restaurants tend to be clean and in good condition. The employees are friendlier and deliver good service. Go to any other fast food joint and their employees don't give a sh**. I don't think the food is amazing (except for the Mac and cheese) but the atmosphere and service is what keeps me going back. Yes, standards are that low these days.
I felt that way about Chickfila in Reno/NorCal area until about a year ago. The operations have really become odd. Some locations are still okay... but not all. I don't understand what has happened. At the Reno one I feel like I am at a McDonalds with how the employees act and how the place looks/smells inside. I've been to a couple around Sacramento recently and they weren't real busy and the employees were borderline rude.

Just yesterday I was in Chickfila and while waiting for my order a customer walked up to the counter and had to tell them to empty the trash can near his table because it stunk. The employee suggested he move to a different table and he said no you need to go empty the trash. The employee said okay I'll do that. The customer went back to the table and the employee disappeared into the back. I was there another 2-3 minutes then my order came, so I left, but I never saw that employee again, the trash was not emptied, and the customer was sitting back at the table complaining loudly to the people he was with.

During COVID when there were all those issues with things like soap/gloves in the supply chains, Chickfila was the only fast food I would go to because I trusted their operational standards and cleanliness so much.

I won't even go into the Chickfila I went to in a Denver suburb last year where the kid taking orders looked about 12 years old and the filth level rivaled some of the dirtiest McDonalds units I've seen.
Last edited by storewanderer on March 19th, 2023, 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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