Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by mbz321 »

storewanderer wrote: June 18th, 2023, 10:26 pm

Safeway meanwhile does these ridiculous things like this "Fresh Adventure" thing where I go play their re-run from last year cooking videos in a bunch of dormant browsers to earn game plays then go play some game and keep getting random offers; 1 reward, 5 rewards, $10 off any purchase, $15 off meat, $10 off deli, $10 off bakery, various $1 off category or item specific coupons. In the end I expect to benefit well over $100 from this promotion.

This will be the only reason I will be shopping at Acme all this summer :P I have two accounts and I play on another belonging to a friend that doesn't use theirs. You get to choose one of those high-value category coupons (meat, bakery, produce, paper goods, haba) each time you play through all the levels, which only takes a few days worth of free plays. After going through twice, you get an offer for a free 1 year of FreshPass too. I signed up for the hell of it but probably won't use anything other than the $5 monthly coupon.
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by storewanderer »

mbz321 wrote: June 20th, 2023, 6:34 pm


This will be the only reason I will be shopping at Acme all this summer :P I have two accounts and I play on another belonging to a friend that doesn't use theirs. You get to choose one of those high-value category coupons (meat, bakery, produce, paper goods, haba) each time you play through all the levels, which only takes a few days worth of free plays. After going through twice, you get an offer for a free 1 year of FreshPass too. I signed up for the hell of it but probably won't use anything other than the $5 monthly coupon.
Fresh Pass is helpful as it makes the "rewards" not expire also. Also 2x rewards on private label items, which doesn't do much for me but does do something. It used to give 2x rewards on bakery/deli items and quite a bit of meat/produce (I guess they considered it all private label) but that stopped a few months ago for some reason.

If the merger goes through it will be interesting to see how Fresh Pass is handled. Kroger barely markets or promotes its similar program Boost which from what I can tell the main benefit to is 2x fuel points on all purchases every day (additional bonus for Boost when Kroger has 2x fuel points weekends for all, 4x fuel points on pet items, 4x fuel points on gift cards/random items). Kroger is a lot more generous with fuel points than Albertsons is but they don't have that "reward" redemption option like Albertsons does.

I can't find any use for the $5 off Floral. I heard there are some candles that are in floral and are at half price coming out to 5.99 that work but can't seem to find those at my local stores. I did see they have some balloons for 5.99 but that seems like a waste.
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by architect »

Texas-based El Rancho Supermercado has recently been sold, which Albertsons previously held a 45% stake in. Cross post with the following thread: viewtopic.php?t=3829

Could this be Albertsons' first step in addressing store overlap and required divestitures if the Kroger-Albertsons merger goes through?
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by Bagels »

architect wrote: July 4th, 2023, 7:20 pm Texas-based El Rancho Supermercado has recently been sold, which Albertsons previously held a 45% stake in. Cross post with the following thread: viewtopic.php?t=3829

Could this be Albertsons' first step in addressing store overlap and required divestitures if the Kroger-Albertsons merger goes through?
One more time: Albertsons and Kroger cannot legally coordinate until the feds have signed off on the merger. Yes, there's a team of people from both companies assigned to integration, but I guarantee you they've all signed NDAs and aren't coordinating with day-to-day management. Anything that looks like coordination can torpedo this merger, and there's far too much $$$ at stake.
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

ClownLoach wrote: June 18th, 2023, 8:23 am

Right on. He is going to keep saying positive things until the hammer inevitably comes down. Who cares if they're able to certify compliance with an information request? Of course they'd be able to, because if they couldn't provide the required information then there would be much more serious concerns.

And considering the poison pill type deal Albertsons made to practically guarantee a breakup if this merger gets denied - then the only positive argument I can make is that everyone is probably better off with the Kroger acquisition of the vast majority of the company and stores because there will be far more closures and layoffs in a breakup. Plus Kroger will assuredly buy most of the stores in that deal anyway.

And a sale to a chain that's from outside of the market is much more likely to fail even if they're successful elsewhere for many reasons (Haggen obviously was too small to bite off so many stores - but even if Haggen was a thousand store chain the changes they brought and ineptitude about their new market entries doomed them anyway).
I'd think when the hammer comes down and the Feds successfully stop the merger, I've said this before and I'll say it again: the six most profitable Albertsons divisions (PNW, NorCal, SoCal, Southwest, Intermountain, Jewel) will get picked up by Ahold or move on as a more streamlined company. The remains (Denver, Texas, Safeway East/Acme, Shaw's) will get carved up and sold to other buyers.

Letting Comvest/Haggen buy Albertsons/Safeway stores was intentionally about carving up the stores for real estate. Haggen was clearly not interested in operating stores outside of their northern Washington core turf, they intentionally set pricing high to keep the acquired stores from being profitable. Those Haggen stores were meant to fill space temporarily until the inevitable bankruptcy and store sales for real estate.
That was perhaps the dumbest decision the Feds made, allowing a vampire capitalist group like Comvest (acting as Haggen) to buy the stores. It would've made no difference had they sold the stores to Eddie Lampert.
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by storewanderer »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: July 5th, 2023, 2:46 pm
I'd think when the hammer comes down and the Feds successfully stop the merger, I've said this before and I'll say it again: the six most profitable Albertsons divisions (PNW, NorCal, SoCal, Southwest, Intermountain, Jewel) will get picked up by Ahold or move on as a more streamlined company. The remains (Denver, Texas, Safeway East/Acme, Shaw's) will get carved up and sold to other buyers.

Letting Comvest/Haggen buy Albertsons/Safeway stores was intentionally about carving up the stores for real estate. Haggen was clearly not interested in operating stores outside of their northern Washington core turf, they intentionally set pricing high to keep the acquired stores from being profitable. Those Haggen stores were meant to fill space temporarily until the inevitable bankruptcy and store sales for real estate.
That was perhaps the dumbest decision the Feds made, allowing a vampire capitalist group like Comvest (acting as Haggen) to buy the stores. It would've made no difference had they sold the stores to Eddie Lampert.
We should be very happy about Haggen because I think the Haggen mess is going to be a big reason why this Albertsons/Kroger merger ends up blocked. Also there is the matter that in the Albertsons/Safeway merger a new competitor was supposed to be created in these markets via Haggen. That did not happen since Haggen failed. So no new competitor was created. So these markets are already "short" a competitor. Then to add insult the last living pieces of the previous "competitor" Haggen ended up in the hands of Albertsons as well, so a competitor was eliminated in the original Haggen markets too.

Haggen had been shrinking in OR/WA for years leading up to their purchase of the Albertsons/Kroger divests. Haggen ran a fantastic operation but missed on some details, price was always a problem, but they made up for everything they did wrong with their quality.

When Haggen moved to CA/NV/AZ and the rest of OR/WA for some inexplicable reason rather than get their really good quality items, they pulled their produce supplier down from OR/WA to handle produce so produce was pretty good, and they pulled some suppliers for meat they were familiar with as well, but somehow the level of produce and meat in CA/NV/AZ was still not the same as the original Haggen stores. Then there was bakery/deli where these Haggen converts were slotting literal crap product basically below the level of the worst grocery chains, like below Save Mart level, rather than their excellent items from their original stores for some inexplicable reason.

Haggen's everyday shelf pricing was actually equal to the Safeway/Albertsons pricing that the stores closed with. That directive was followed during the conversions. The problem was the sale pricing at Haggen was basically non-existent aside from a terrible little 4 page ad with no hot deals (other than 50% off Signature brands to get rid of them in the divested Safeway/Vons units; the Supervalu brands the Albertsons units were slotting at that time were continued to be carried by Haggen in OR/WA so no clearance there but they did clearance them in CA/NV/AZ). So due to a lack of sale prices a basket at Haggen (if they even had the items you wanted for your basket) would cost significantly more than Albertsons/Safeway due to a lack of sale prices at Haggen that previously existed at Albertsons/Safeway.

The biggest thing that killed Haggen was Unified Grocers. Unified Grocers, you would have thought, would have done everything it could to drive volume at what became overnight its largest customer in CA. But they didn't. The various independent member-owners of Unified Grocers like Superior, etc. already were doing plenty of self distribution outside of Unified (wonder why that was..) as it was and clearly Unified in CA was not set up to do much other than provide high cost items to independents and do almost nothing to drive volume. They gave Haggen zero help on promotions, zero help on ads, lousy private label support, super high costs on everything, zero merchandising help/support, and basically are a big reason why the whole Haggen fiasco unwound as fast as it did in SoCal. But it wasn't long after that, that Unified Grocers sold itself to Supervalu. So I guess in the end, Unified grocers got what was coming to it.

Meanwhile up in OR/WA where Haggen was using Supervalu, they were able to keep those stores merchandised noticeably better since they could largely keep stocking them the way Albertsons left them, but the Safeway conversions were a big struggle, and the same issues on pricing still existed and it didn't seem like Supervalu gave Haggen much help or pricing support either.
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by ClownLoach »

So... Doesn't it seem like all news around this merger has disappeared? Everything has gone silent?

They have changed and removed some of the outlandish and incredible statements of support from their merger site. There is only one quote remaining that I saw from that "the sky is falling!" analyst who stated that denying this merger would probably lead to both Kroger and Albertsons going out of business immediately (that statement is gone).

It seems that the moment the Teamsters formally announced their opposition things got very quiet. I think that is the political third rail here - now that the very powerful union that runs the entire distribution side has turned against a merger even though they were promised zero job loss, every facility is kept etc, they still are opposed. And that means many politicians who might not have been intensely involved in opposing such a deal would now become more active in lobbying the FTC and Justice Dept. to shut it down.

I wonder if they're working on a "Plan B" type deal as we've speculated to break up Albertsons and only take parts where there is little overlap such as the Northeast, leaving the rest of the company intact and stronger (less unproductive segments, money to pay down debt, etc.).

Interestingly enough they still have many quotes that actually conflict with each other, all basically saying that the conventional supermarket is losing share to others then names everyone from Walmart to Amazon to Lidl (yes, really they're claiming Lidl is a reason for the merger). But one quote has figures attached and basically does state that the big share winners right now are Costco and Sam's, not Walmart, Target, or Amazon. Walmart and Target combined only increased their share 0.6% from 2017 to 2022, Dollar stores only 0.3%, but Costco and Sam's took 2.2% of the share. Based on their combined share increasing from 8.7% to 10.9% that means their business has increased 25.2% overall in only five years. Not sure of any other category in brick and mortar retail that can claim a 25.2% sales increase from 2017 to 2022. Walmart and Target combined gaining only 0.6% of the grocery business is far less than I would have imagined and certainly isn't significant enough to justify this merger. The membership warehouse figure in itself isn't justification for a merger either because it's an indication customers want less of what conventional grocers have to offer and more of what membership warehouses have. Merging Kroger and Albertsons isn't going to suddenly sprout a chain of new warehouses. Maybe they're saying Kroger should buy BJ's or Sam's Club instead of Albertsons?
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by Romr123 »

Kroger and BJs...that would be an interesting combo---really compete only in Detroit and Atlanta...
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by marshd1000 »

Looks like pushback from the Feds now!

https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail- ... guidelines
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Re: Kroger to merge with Albertsons?

Post by jamcool »

ClownLoach wrote: July 21st, 2023, 2:24 pm So... Doesn't it seem like all news around this merger has disappeared? Everything has gone silent?

They have changed and removed some of the outlandish and incredible statements of support from their merger site. There is only one quote remaining that I saw from that "the sky is falling!" analyst who stated that denying this merger would probably lead to both Kroger and Albertsons going out of business immediately (that statement is gone).

It seems that the moment the Teamsters formally announced their opposition things got very quiet. I think that is the political third rail here - now that the very powerful union that runs the entire distribution side has turned against a merger even though they were promised zero job loss, every facility is kept etc, they still are opposed. And that means many politicians who might not have been intensely involved in opposing such a deal would now become more active in lobbying the FTC and Justice Dept. to shut it down.

I wonder if they're working on a "Plan B" type deal as we've speculated to break up Albertsons and only take parts where there is little overlap such as the Northeast, leaving the rest of the company intact and stronger (less unproductive segments, money to pay down debt, etc.).

Interestingly enough they still have many quotes that actually conflict with each other, all basically saying that the conventional supermarket is losing share to others then names everyone from Walmart to Amazon to Lidl (yes, really they're claiming Lidl is a reason for the merger). But one quote has figures attached and basically does state that the big share winners right now are Costco and Sam's, not Walmart, Target, or Amazon. Walmart and Target combined only increased their share 0.6% from 2017 to 2022, Dollar stores only 0.3%, but Costco and Sam's took 2.2% of the share. Based on their combined share increasing from 8.7% to 10.9% that means their business has increased 25.2% overall in only five years. Not sure of any other category in brick and mortar retail that can claim a 25.2% sales increase from 2017 to 2022. Walmart and Target combined gaining only 0.6% of the grocery business is far less than I would have imagined and certainly isn't significant enough to justify this merger. The membership warehouse figure in itself isn't justification for a merger either because it's an indication customers want less of what conventional grocers have to offer and more of what membership warehouses have. Merging Kroger and Albertsons isn't going to suddenly sprout a chain of new warehouses. Maybe they're saying Kroger should buy BJ's or Sam's Club instead of Albertsons?
Kroger has already dabbled in the membership warehouse business before…they owned Price Savers, which was bought by K-Mart owned Pace Membership Warehouse. Pace eventually ended up with…..Sam’s Club.
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