LA Times: CA Plastic Bag Ban increases Total Plastic Use

[reymann]

i honestly is gonna happen is that the environmentalist will lobby for california to become bagless and make the reuseable bags the only option. i also think a bagless bill will reach the floor in the legislature within the next year or two. the catch 22 is more stores are requiring customers to check in backpacks/reusable bags at the counter due to theft.

[storewanderer]

i honestly is gonna happen is that the environmentalist will lobby for california to become bagless and make the reuseable bags the only option. i also think a bagless bill will reach the floor in the legislature within the next year or two. the catch 22 is more stores are requiring customers to check in backpacks/reusable bags at the counter due to theft.

They may try that but there are a lot of problems with the NJ reusable bags only thing. Reusable bags have piled up, numerous reports of people with 20, 30, 40, 50 reusable bags. They are trying to develop some kind of a system to collect reusable bags for further re-use through food banks since customers aren't... actually reusing them... sanitation is the main roadblock. Also profitability. Also the fact that by the time you do all that what is the environmental impact you are having? One use of the reusable bag by the initial purchasing user, a bunch of work to transport it/clean it/sanitize it/give it to someone else at a food bank or something who only uses it once and since they got it free they'll just throw it away. So that reusable bag was just used twice. What is the environmental impact of that? Waste of everyone's time. The thin single use bag continues to be the most efficient option with the least environmental impact.

There are some really flimsy reusable bags being sold at the .50 or so price point in NJ by certain retailers such as Wal Mart and these can't be used many times due to how flimsy they are (think the old $1 reusables in CA that were made from plastic milk jug material and cut their weight by about 75%) and also they are awkwardly small.

However Wal Mart has gone the bagless route in quite a few states where they don't have to be bagless (could sell bags for 5 cents/8 cents/10 cents). This was supposedly because it was costing Wal Mart more than the amount of the bag fee to secure compliant bags and they got tired of it and decided to just sell imported from China or Vietnam or something reusable bags only (starting at the .50 or so price point I describe above which is a 100%+ mark up for them) as a merchandise item on the sales floor. No more bags in the store that come in as a "store supply." All bags are merchandise inventory. For some reason in CA they haven't and keep selling 10 cent "store supply" super thick plastic bags. I wonder why that is.

[BillyGr]

However Wal Mart has gone the bagless route in quite a few states where they don't have to be bagless (could sell bags for 5 cents/8 cents/10 cents). This was supposedly because it was costing Wal Mart more than the amount of the bag fee to secure compliant bags and they got tired of it and decided to just sell imported from China or Vietnam or something reusable bags only (starting at the .50 or so price point I describe above which is a 100%+ mark up for them) as a merchandise item on the sales floor. No more bags in the store that come in as a "store supply." All bags are merchandise inventory. For some reason in CA they haven't and keep selling 10 cent "store supply" super thick plastic bags. I wonder why that is.

Maybe those plastic bags are easier/cheaper to obtain than what would be needed in those other states (where they'd have to be paper, if anything is allowed)?

[HCal]

It seems like HCal said that they CAN figure it out, not that they HAVE figured it out as of yet.

They are likely just taking advantage and getting more for their products, as long as chains are willing/able to buy them and they can make as many as are being sold.

If that demand goes higher (more states do something like this), then they would see that they can't supply enough and then invest in making larger facilities.

I suspect those CA stores not having paper bags is just that they have an option (these thicker plastic ones) - every store I've seen in NY has paper bags available regularly, even the cheap ones like Dollar Tree/General/Family that don't even charge for them when not required to. Ocean State (closeout type stores, similar to a Big Lots) even has full sized printed ones and a couple smaller sizes for minor purchases.

Precisely. The market will always find the cheapest solution within the confines of the law. Right now, in California that is these super-thick plastic bags that are terrible for the environment. Until that option is eliminated, nothing is going to change.

[storewanderer]

Those super thick plastic bags never would have been invented or brought to market had it not been for the CA statewide ban. When the ban was limited to specific cities the few stores impacted just flipped to paper bags.

During that limbo period between the ban being passed and it going to voters there started to be some chains that went to super thick plastic bags, before the statewide law vote passed.

[Alpha8472]

I first saw the super thick plastic bags in Martinez, California when there was a city plastic bag ban years before the state law. I found it odd that super thick plastic bags were used when the purpose was to eliminate plastic bags.

Then again Martinez is a city where the hills are covered with ugly oil refineries and related equipment. I remember driving through the city at night. Bright lights from the oil refineries illuminated toxic clouds of vapor at night. The city has been controlled by oil companies for decades. They wanted super thick plastic bags because the plastic bags were made from oil.

Eventually the super thick plastic bags spread throughout California as more cities passed plastic bag ordinances until the state forced all of California to eliminate the thin bags.

The city is an ugly toxic wasteland. I hate driving by the city as it shows how the oil companies have just ruined the quality of life and the natural beauty of the once pristine hills.

[storewanderer]

I first saw the super thick plastic bags in Martinez, California when there was a city plastic bag ban years before the state law. I found it odd that super thick plastic bags were used when the purpose was to eliminate plastic bags.

Then again Martinez is a city where the hills are covered with ugly oil refineries and related equipment. I remember driving through the city at night. Bright lights from the oil refineries illuminated toxic clouds of vapor at night. The city has been controlled by oil companies for decades. They wanted super thick plastic bags because the plastic bags were made from oil.

Eventually the super thick plastic bags spread throughout California as more cities passed plastic bag ordinances until the state forced all of California to eliminate the thin bags.

The city is an ugly toxic wasteland. I hate driving by the city as it shows how the oil companies have just ruined the quality of life and the natural beauty of the once pristine hills.

Now my memory is coming back to me.

The first Super Thick plastic bags I saw were being pushed by Save Mart back when they converted the Albertsons Stores... there was a company Roplast, a plastic bag manufacturer, who was pushing these super thick plastic bags. They were also somehow involved in various local bag bans and state regulations (ensuring these super thick "reusable" plastic bags were allowed under state and local regulations). Save Mart was selling the bags for 25 cents stating you got a 5 cent credit every visit and so the bag would more than pay for itself over time. There was little to no interest in those bags, they sat around for many years.

https://progressivegrocer.com/save-mart ... s-campaign

Also it is completely bogus that these bags as described in the above article could replace 4 single use bags. Potentially replace 2 single use bags IF you are really lucky/pack very well.