veteran+ wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:18 am
Yup...................spot on again!
F&E palletized by aisle as well.
Side note:
I know that I am an outlier on many things................always have been but...........................
I do NOT like foreign retailers telling me how to shop. Clearly America is open to this well crafted, curated, soft manipulation.
Fewer choices and scant service is good for you BUT way better for us! Oh, and we will lower the prices as long as you "behave".
Personally I'm tired of the over expansion of these small format stores, who all go in with the kind of exclusionary clauses in their leases that I mentioned in my solution to the Kroger-Albertsons deal. One of the secret reasons why Sprouts and Aldi are so fast growing is that they're going into open retail space in a strip mall and adding lease covenants that exclude the addition of a real full service supermarket later. All of these anticompetitive lease exclusions need to be outlawed, and fast. Being in a fast growing market now I'm seeing the destruction this is causing, especially when the area needs ethnic chains such as a proper Asian supermarket and a first class Hispanic market (because Cardenas is really a 2nd class store when compared to Northgate or Vallarta). Both Aldi and Sprouts are opening small formats everywhere and it's annoying.
By doing this Aldi is going to ensure that their intentional slaughter of Winn-Dixie results in the removal of hundreds of viable supermarket sites through lease and deed restrictions.
So now it's "our way or the highway, and by the way we are taking that choice away too."
veteran+ wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 9:18 am
Yup...................spot on again!
F&E palletized by aisle as well.
Side note:
I know that I am an outlier on many things................always have been but...........................
I do NOT like foreign retailers telling me how to shop. Clearly America is open to this well crafted, curated, soft manipulation.
Fewer choices and scant service is good for you BUT way better for us! Oh, and we will lower the prices as long as you "behave".
Personally I'm tired of the over expansion of these small format stores, who all go in with the kind of exclusionary clauses in their leases that I mentioned in my solution to the Kroger-Albertsons deal. One of the secret reasons why Sprouts and Aldi are so fast growing is that they're going into open retail space in a strip mall and adding lease covenants that exclude the addition of a real full service supermarket later. All of these anticompetitive lease exclusions need to be outlawed, and fast. Being in a fast growing market now I'm seeing the destruction this is causing, especially when the area needs ethnic chains such as a proper Asian supermarket and a first class Hispanic market (because Cardenas is really a 2nd class store when compared to Northgate or Vallarta). Both Aldi and Sprouts are opening small formats everywhere and it's annoying.
By doing this Aldi is going to ensure that their intentional slaughter of Winn-Dixie results in the removal of hundreds of viable supermarket sites through lease and deed restrictions.
So now it's "our way or the highway, and by the way we are taking that choice away too."
A few thoughts about the assumptions here......
Having more than one supermarket in a shopping center was the norm up until the beginning of the 60s, so I'd guess that exclusions date to then. The earliest small centers--back in the 30s and 40s had 2 sometimes 3 super markets, but it was more typical of "community" shopping centers (the category not quite in the subsequent mall class, although they might have had a full-line department store) where that was typical. Up until that point it also was common for shopping centers to also have multiple variety stores (usually Woolworth and a semi-national like Grant or Kresge or a regional like Murphy's), too. No one builds large "community" shopping centers anymore although some power centers and even a few lifestyle centers have conventional supermarkets. So---Aldi or TJs in a small shopping center? Probably filling a space that a major chain wouldn't or filling part of a space that a major gave up. W-D hasn't been a real force in its region in 25 years---I'm guessing many of these stores are in weak locations and most of them have survived as low volume operations and some would only be attractive to a low volume/limited selection operator. The limited selection chains are, by design, operations that don't have much market share, so it's not like they plan to take over the world.
W-D's region once had some respected local operators, but now doesn't and they have no co-ops on the scale of say, Shop-Rite to buy and organize stores. The independent chains in the Southeast are in areas that are culturally and geographically distinct from what's left of W-D: Ingle's and Food City are based in Appalachia while Lowe's seems to be in the Piedmont. Ingle's has remained in the Atlanta area, closer to W-D but have never had much market share or respect. Lowe's has had many ups and downs and has shrunk over time; I'm a little surprised that they're still around. Food City is no place more urban than Knoxville. These chains probably have no interest in the debt or risk necessary to enter a lot of new markets. I don't know much about Brookshire or Rouse but I wouldn't be surprised if they are equally unlikely for some similar reasons. It's also worth noting that the 3 chains I've mentioned all have some investment in limited selection stores as a way to operate low volume, often rural locations, which means there's no guarantee that they would operate W-D stores on a conventional basis in the unlikely event that they had the interest and funding to buy them.
Last edited by buckguy on September 18th, 2023, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
ClownLoach wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 1:12 pm
Personally I'm tired of the over expansion of these small format stores, who all go in with the kind of exclusionary clauses in their leases that I mentioned in my solution to the Kroger-Albertsons deal. One of the secret reasons why Sprouts and Aldi are so fast growing is that they're going into open retail space in a strip mall and adding lease covenants that exclude the addition of a real full service supermarket later. All of these anticompetitive lease exclusions need to be outlawed, and fast. Being in a fast growing market now I'm seeing the destruction this is causing, especially when the area needs ethnic chains such as a proper Asian supermarket and a first class Hispanic market (because Cardenas is really a 2nd class store when compared to Northgate or Vallarta). Both Aldi and Sprouts are opening small formats everywhere and it's annoying.
By doing this Aldi is going to ensure that their intentional slaughter of Winn-Dixie results in the removal of hundreds of viable supermarket sites through lease and deed restrictions.
So now it's "our way or the highway, and by the way we are taking that choice away too."
It really does not matter - no matter how many places they set up and prohibit other supermarket type stores from opening, there is almost always another plaza or a piece of vacant land down the street, a couple blocks away or a mile up the road. Thus any other chain that wants to exist in an area simply builds their store in one of those many other locations
BillyGr wrote: ↑September 16th, 2023, 6:13 pm
By doing this Aldi is going to ensure that their intentional slaughter of Winn-Dixie results in the removal of hundreds of viable supermarket sites through lease and deed restrictions.
Since Winn Dixie's store fleet still averages over 20 years old, I would believe it's safe to say they are not slaughtering many viable sites. Most of WD's sites haven't been viable since they opened, much less now.
ClownLoach wrote: ↑September 15th, 2023, 1:12 pm
Personally I'm tired of the over expansion of these small format stores, who all go in with the kind of exclusionary clauses in their leases that I mentioned in my solution to the Kroger-Albertsons deal. One of the secret reasons why Sprouts and Aldi are so fast growing is that they're going into open retail space in a strip mall and adding lease covenants that exclude the addition of a real full service supermarket later. All of these anticompetitive lease exclusions need to be outlawed, and fast. Being in a fast growing market now I'm seeing the destruction this is causing, especially when the area needs ethnic chains such as a proper Asian supermarket and a first class Hispanic market (because Cardenas is really a 2nd class store when compared to Northgate or Vallarta). Both Aldi and Sprouts are opening small formats everywhere and it's annoying.
By doing this Aldi is going to ensure that their intentional slaughter of Winn-Dixie results in the removal of hundreds of viable supermarket sites through lease and deed restrictions.
So now it's "our way or the highway, and by the way we are taking that choice away too."
It really does not matter - no matter how many places they set up and prohibit other supermarket type stores from opening, there is almost always another plaza or a piece of vacant land down the street, a couple blocks away or a mile up the road. Thus any other chain that wants to exist in an area simply builds their store in one of those many other locations
Still really depends on the area. The more densely populated areas are where these lease restrictions are harmful.
It is on the landlords. If a power center landlord with 1,000,000 square feet is dumb enough to sign with Sprouts or Aldi and give them exclusive grocery rights in a shopping center, I think that is a big mistake on the part of the power center landlord.
In the case of a neighborhood shopping center with 150,000 square feet of space signing with Safeway and giving them exclusive grocery rights in a shopping center, that makes a lot of sense to me.
However I don't think it should be allowed for these "exclusive rights" to continue after the grocery store in question no longer operates a grocery store in a given shopping center. This is where the landlord really gets screwed. Yes, the landlord is still being paid rent for the empty box by the grocery chain. But the landlord loses the foot traffic of the previously occupied grocery store which in turn adversely impacts their ability to rent surrounding spaces.
I'd guess that a viable power center would have a Target with some amount of grocery or a Walmart super center, if not also a chain supermarket. An Aldi would be more likely to wind up in a dying power center or a small plaza. They also seem to have a lot of free standing stores and always have--the store in DC seems recently to have relocated to one. Trader Joe's seems to favor free standing stores, too. Sav-a-lot seems to wind up in more distressed properties than Aldi.
buckguy wrote: ↑September 25th, 2023, 6:13 pm
I'd guess that a viable power center would have a Target with some amount of grocery or a Walmart super center, if not also a chain supermarket. An Aldi would be more likely to wind up in a dying power center or a small plaza. They also seem to have a lot of free standing stores and always have--the store in DC seems recently to have relocated to one. Trader Joe's seems to favor free standing stores, too. Sav-a-lot seems to wind up in more distressed properties than Aldi.
Aldi seems to be using a different real estate strategy in California, many of the locations are not freestanding buildings.
In the midwest they are very often a freestanding building though.
Not sure I've ever seen a freestanding Trader Joe's.. I think there is one in the older middle part of Sacramento that is about 15 years old, that may be the only freestanding one I've ever seen.
Save a Lot... is that chain even worth talking about? I did go into one back in IL; terrible mix and not great pricing. They are so far behind Aldi, in terms of mix, marketing, and customer traffic, basically completely different formats at this point. They are limited format both but that is where it stops. I think Save a Lot being a bit more flexible in its formats (in CA they had a hispanic format; some of them in the midwest have fresh cut meat, etc.- they seem to allow the stores to tailor to the location's needs which I think is a great thing) should be a help but for whatever reasons the chain seems to not be having near the growth of Aldi. I also went into one store that was a debranded Save a Lot (big store-former Eagle) and that was pretty interesting basically the operator got AWG to fill the place up with AWG brands, but prices were higher than Hy-Vee, and the store was barely stocked; it had a very fully stocked attached liquor store so I think the low inventory primarily low dollar Always Save item filled grocery area was just a front for the well stocked liquor store adjacent.
storewanderer wrote: ↑September 24th, 2023, 11:43 pm
However I don't think it should be allowed for these "exclusive rights" to continue after the grocery store in question no longer operates a grocery store in a given shopping center. This is where the landlord really gets screwed. Yes, the landlord is still being paid rent for the empty box by the grocery chain. But the landlord loses the foot traffic of the previously occupied grocery store which in turn adversely impacts their ability to rent surrounding spaces.
Agree, Storewanderer.
In the late 1980s or so, Winn Dixie built a new store and held the lease on the old one. They boarded it up for a hurricane and left it that way for, if I remember correctly, 5-10 years. As it was when you entered town, it screamed "Welcome to our town, we're abandoned." The shopping center, which also lost the neighboring Eckerd, began to look real shabby. Not a good look, at all.
Eventually the W/D became a Beall's Outlet which has been quite successful.
Same thing happened in a neighboring town at an ancient Publix store. They held the lease and tried to block the construction of a new, viable store on the site. Eventually the new grocery store, an Albertson's, was built.
Don't see much evidence of this any more, at least in this area.
