Gelsons Laguna Beach closing

[ClownLoach]

They strike me as a step or two below Food 4 Less, but with more "large" size items.

Their product mix in center store seems to keep getting better and better but still isn't great. I don't think their pricing is good at all, but a lot of people seem to think it is pretty good, and perception is everything.

I also don't find many hot specials there. When I go in, about 50/50 if I walk out with any purchases. And if those purchases total more than a few dollars that is something. I find this place even less effective at getting me to buy things than Save Mart.

I think their pricing isn't consistent. Some items are good values, especially items that would have been part of the "old" S&F food service stores. Oddly, the closer the item skews to a traditional grocery store item the higher the price. I saw terrible dessicated looking cluster tomatoes for $4 a pound and laughed that they were more expensive than Bristol Farms/Gelsons/Whole Foods. But they have a great selection of coffee products like syrups at good prices.

The stores opened prior to the finalization of the "extra" format are generally bad as they were not meant to be for consumers but rather restaurant supply houses. There are few of these left but the aforementioned 1992 opening is by definition one of the old food service stores despite whatever updates it received since and probably will never be "right." But they have taken over several former Ralphs and Albertsons and heavily invested to upgrade them nicely so they fit in just fine. An excellent example is a long neglected former Alpha-Beta in Long Beach on 7th and Redondo that was just "lived in" by subsequent Lucky and Albertsons. S&F spent a fortune remodeling this old, problematic store with logistics problems and bought out neighboring tenants at a very high cost to expand and make it a full size store. Lucky/Albertsons did little more than paint over the years and it was never busy as a result then Albertsons finally closed it as an underperformer. When S&F opened they relocated their old, small Foodservice format a couple miles away and this store has never been busier in the decades I've known the site. And it is definitely nicer than the Food4Less up the street. F4L is the downgraded Ralphs from when someone at Kroger wanted to shoehorn in the format so they broke their promise to the community to operate a true full service store which was why they agreed to accept less parking and outside amenities than regulations required. I think that situation leaves a bad taste in the mouth of local residents who were well aware of the deal made and then broken by Ralphs/Kroger. Another good example of a S&F takeover is the Tustin Ralphs on Irvine Blvd that closed to consolidate with the Jamboree store. This S&F really still feels like a Ralphs inside, or maybe a more upscale F4L that is clean well lit and smells good. This store far outperforms the Ralphs that was there and I was told it is one of the top performers in the entire S&F chain which is why it is used as a test store (including the infamous queue line test that flopped).

They generally have been able to try to fill in gaps and seem to do a better job when they have taken over a conventional supermarket in an area lacking coverage. They have not been able to compete in the top end of the market from what I have seen, and that has resulted in closures like Corona Del Mar (former ultra-luxe Albertsons). Yet somehow they squeak by in Santa Barbara, probably carried more by small businesses than consumers.

They generally have been very successful in being a chameleon store that changes to the community. They obviously data mine and figure out what sells best then adjust the assortment so that they can make good sales and grow annually to keep the doors open.

Overall, the comparison of S&F and Gelsons is a good one. Both are niche stores primarily. Gelsons is for the ultra rich who primarily source their meat and seafood from the best possible sources but might need a couple last minute steaks, but then they buy all their boxed goods from their ample and expensive center store along with lots of sides from their pricey deli department. S&F is as said a chameleon that does a better job of adapting to the location and really can serve as a full supermarket in areas under served by the big chains, but where there is more competition they skew back to their Foodservice roots.

[brendenmoney]

They strike me as a step or two below Food 4 Less, but with more "large" size items.

Their product mix in center store seems to keep getting better and better but still isn't great. I don't think their pricing is good at all, but a lot of people seem to think it is pretty good, and perception is everything.

I also don't find many hot specials there. When I go in, about 50/50 if I walk out with any purchases. And if those purchases total more than a few dollars that is something. I find this place even less effective at getting me to buy things than Save Mart.

I think their pricing isn't consistent. Some items are good values, especially items that would have been part of the "old" S&F food service stores. Oddly, the closer the item skews to a traditional grocery store item the higher the price. I saw terrible dessicated looking cluster tomatoes for $4 a pound and laughed that they were more expensive than Bristol Farms/Gelsons/Whole Foods. But they have a great selection of coffee products like syrups at good prices.

The stores opened prior to the finalization of the "extra" format are generally bad as they were not meant to be for consumers but rather restaurant supply houses. There are few of these left but the aforementioned 1992 opening is by definition one of the old food service stores despite whatever updates it received since and probably will never be "right." But they have taken over several former Ralphs and Albertsons and heavily invested to upgrade them nicely so they fit in just fine. An excellent example is a long neglected former Alpha-Beta in Long Beach on 7th and Redondo that was just "lived in" by subsequent Lucky and Albertsons. S&F spent a fortune remodeling this old, problematic store with logistics problems and bought out neighboring tenants at a very high cost to expand and make it a full size store. Lucky/Albertsons did little more than paint over the years and it was never busy as a result then Albertsons finally closed it as an underperformer. When S&F opened they relocated their old, small Foodservice format a couple miles away and this store has never been busier in the decades I've known the site. And it is definitely nicer than the Food4Less up the street. F4L is the downgraded Ralphs from when someone at Kroger wanted to shoehorn in the format so they broke their promise to the community to operate a true full service store which was why they agreed to accept less parking and outside amenities than regulations required. I think that situation leaves a bad taste in the mouth of local residents who were well aware of the deal made and then broken by Ralphs/Kroger. Another good example of a S&F takeover is the Tustin Ralphs on Irvine Blvd that closed to consolidate with the Jamboree store. This S&F really still feels like a Ralphs inside, or maybe a more upscale F4L that is clean well lit and smells good. This store far outperforms the Ralphs that was there and I was told it is one of the top performers in the entire S&F chain which is why it is used as a test store (including the infamous queue line test that flopped).

They generally have been able to try to fill in gaps and seem to do a better job when they have taken over a conventional supermarket in an area lacking coverage. They have not been able to compete in the top end of the market from what I have seen, and that has resulted in closures like Corona Del Mar (former ultra-luxe Albertsons). Yet somehow they squeak by in Santa Barbara, probably carried more by small businesses than consumers.

They generally have been very successful in being a chameleon store that changes to the community. They obviously data mine and figure out what sells best then adjust the assortment so that they can make good sales and grow annually to keep the doors open.

Overall, the comparison of S&F and Gelsons is a good one. Both are niche stores primarily. Gelsons is for the ultra rich who primarily source their meat and seafood from the best possible sources but might need a couple last minute steaks, but then they buy all their boxed goods from their ample and expensive center store along with lots of sides from their pricey deli department. S&F is as said a chameleon that does a better job of adapting to the location and really can serve as a full supermarket in areas under served by the big chains, but where there is more competition they skew back to their Foodservice roots.

A very late reply to this thread:

Overall, Smart & Final has been very successful with taking over former closed supermarkets, as it has a good strategy of catering to underserved markets, and tailoring stores to fit the needs of the community they open up shop in. After the whole Haggen debacle, markets such as San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara counties, which did not have very many S&F stores in the area before Haggen, now probably has some of the highest market share in those areas after acquiring several former Haggen/Albertsons/Vons/whatever. They also have a tract record of trying to keep their stores open, although I do understand we have seen a couple closures from them in the past couple years, that's not much in comparison to Ralphs which I'm sure has cut their store count in half in the past decade, to the point Stater is not far off from beating them in store count. This is why the Coronado Smart & Final is likely not going anywhere anytime soon in Coronado, even though Gelsons may have been a better fit.

Gelsons is also great with tailoring their stores to a very specific niche market. If their nicer Dana Point store wasn't so close, I'm sure the Laguna Beach store in question would have likely have been more successful, the distance between the two stores was just too close. The only other place where there are multiple Gelsons very close to each other would be the four stores in the Sherman Oaks/Encino area. Most of the other former Haggens that Gelsons took over, with the exception of Ladera Ranch, have seen more success, and have since had more thorough remodels.

I think Stater is the most plausible to take over the Laguna Beach Gelsons, although I could see Albertsons also try to take this store back. Stater has been more active in expanding, as well as rebuilding older stores, which is why I can see them looking to take advantage of the surplus of beach-goers in the area. The Laguna Beach mayor wrote a letter to try and advocate Stater to take over the space. Albertsons seems to be focusing their expansion efforts in the state on NorCal, but there are the replacement Vons stores in Santa Monica and Camarillo in development, as well as their planned store in Valley Center, which shows that they do have an eye for new development opportunities in the region, so it is plausible for them to maybe take their store back, just which banner they open it under: Albertsons, Vons, or Pavilions, is questionable. Since Albertsons has control of the Pavilions banner, that would be a good format to use for this store, but it could also be easier to reopen as an Albertsons since this store really hasn't changed much from the Albertsons it was since it was divested.

Ralphs and Whole Foods opening replacement stores in that space I think is less likely, as its now been nearly ten years since Kroger has made any new development in new/replacement Ralphs stores to the point I almost question if Kroger will want to continue to operate in California when (it's not an "if" anymore) the merger is officially killed off. Amazon seems to be on the fence on whether or not it wants to develop any more Whole Foods in the near future, although I'm sure they will resume development at some point. But I guess you never know, maybe some surprising news will be announced from them.

I do hope whatever happens, this store doesn't just sit empty or be leased to a non-grocery tenant.

[ClownLoach]

They strike me as a step or two below Food 4 Less, but with more "large" size items.

Their product mix in center store seems to keep getting better and better but still isn't great. I don't think their pricing is good at all, but a lot of people seem to think it is pretty good, and perception is everything.

I also don't find many hot specials there. When I go in, about 50/50 if I walk out with any purchases. And if those purchases total more than a few dollars that is something. I find this place even less effective at getting me to buy things than Save Mart.

I think their pricing isn't consistent. Some items are good values, especially items that would have been part of the "old" S&F food service stores. Oddly, the closer the item skews to a traditional grocery store item the higher the price. I saw terrible dessicated looking cluster tomatoes for $4 a pound and laughed that they were more expensive than Bristol Farms/Gelsons/Whole Foods. But they have a great selection of coffee products like syrups at good prices.

The stores opened prior to the finalization of the "extra" format are generally bad as they were not meant to be for consumers but rather restaurant supply houses. There are few of these left but the aforementioned 1992 opening is by definition one of the old food service stores despite whatever updates it received since and probably will never be "right." But they have taken over several former Ralphs and Albertsons and heavily invested to upgrade them nicely so they fit in just fine. An excellent example is a long neglected former Alpha-Beta in Long Beach on 7th and Redondo that was just "lived in" by subsequent Lucky and Albertsons. S&F spent a fortune remodeling this old, problematic store with logistics problems and bought out neighboring tenants at a very high cost to expand and make it a full size store. Lucky/Albertsons did little more than paint over the years and it was never busy as a result then Albertsons finally closed it as an underperformer. When S&F opened they relocated their old, small Foodservice format a couple miles away and this store has never been busier in the decades I've known the site. And it is definitely nicer than the Food4Less up the street. F4L is the downgraded Ralphs from when someone at Kroger wanted to shoehorn in the format so they broke their promise to the community to operate a true full service store which was why they agreed to accept less parking and outside amenities than regulations required. I think that situation leaves a bad taste in the mouth of local residents who were well aware of the deal made and then broken by Ralphs/Kroger. Another good example of a S&F takeover is the Tustin Ralphs on Irvine Blvd that closed to consolidate with the Jamboree store. This S&F really still feels like a Ralphs inside, or maybe a more upscale F4L that is clean well lit and smells good. This store far outperforms the Ralphs that was there and I was told it is one of the top performers in the entire S&F chain which is why it is used as a test store (including the infamous queue line test that flopped).

They generally have been able to try to fill in gaps and seem to do a better job when they have taken over a conventional supermarket in an area lacking coverage. They have not been able to compete in the top end of the market from what I have seen, and that has resulted in closures like Corona Del Mar (former ultra-luxe Albertsons). Yet somehow they squeak by in Santa Barbara, probably carried more by small businesses than consumers.

They generally have been very successful in being a chameleon store that changes to the community. They obviously data mine and figure out what sells best then adjust the assortment so that they can make good sales and grow annually to keep the doors open.

Overall, the comparison of S&F and Gelsons is a good one. Both are niche stores primarily. Gelsons is for the ultra rich who primarily source their meat and seafood from the best possible sources but might need a couple last minute steaks, but then they buy all their boxed goods from their ample and expensive center store along with lots of sides from their pricey deli department. S&F is as said a chameleon that does a better job of adapting to the location and really can serve as a full supermarket in areas under served by the big chains, but where there is more competition they skew back to their Foodservice roots.

A very late reply to this thread:

Overall, Smart & Final has been very successful with taking over former closed supermarkets, as it has a good strategy of catering to underserved markets, and tailoring stores to fit the needs of the community they open up shop in. After the whole Haggen debacle, markets such as San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara counties, which did not have very many S&F stores in the area before Haggen, now probably has some of the highest market share in those areas after acquiring several former Haggen/Albertsons/Vons/whatever. They also have a tract record of trying to keep their stores open, although I do understand we have seen a couple closures from them in the past couple years, that's not much in comparison to Ralphs which I'm sure has cut their store count in half in the past decade, to the point Stater is not far off from beating them in store count. This is why the Coronado Smart & Final is likely not going anywhere anytime soon in Coronado, even though Gelsons may have been a better fit.

Gelsons is also great with tailoring their stores to a very specific niche market. If their nicer Dana Point store wasn't so close, I'm sure the Laguna Beach store in question would have likely have been more successful, the distance between the two stores was just too close. The only other place where there are multiple Gelsons very close to each other would be the four stores in the Sherman Oaks/Encino area. Most of the other former Haggens that Gelsons took over, with the exception of Ladera Ranch, have seen more success, and have since had more thorough remodels.

I think Stater is the most plausible to take over the Laguna Beach Gelsons, although I could see Albertsons also try to take this store back. Stater has been more active in expanding, as well as rebuilding older stores, which is why I can see them looking to take advantage of the surplus of beach-goers in the area. The Laguna Beach mayor wrote a letter to try and advocate Stater to take over the space. Albertsons seems to be focusing their expansion efforts in the state on NorCal, but there are the replacement Vons stores in Santa Monica and Camarillo in development, as well as their planned store in Valley Center, which shows that they do have an eye for new development opportunities in the region, so it is plausible for them to maybe take their store back, just which banner they open it under: Albertsons, Vons, or Pavilions, is questionable. Since Albertsons has control of the Pavilions banner, that would be a good format to use for this store, but it could also be easier to reopen as an Albertsons since this store really hasn't changed much from the Albertsons it was since it was divested.

Ralphs and Whole Foods opening replacement stores in that space I think is less likely, as its now been nearly ten years since Kroger has made any new development in new/replacement Ralphs stores to the point I almost question if Kroger will want to continue to operate in California when (it's not an "if" anymore) the merger is officially killed off. Amazon seems to be on the fence on whether or not it wants to develop any more Whole Foods in the near future, although I'm sure they will resume development at some point. But I guess you never know, maybe some surprising news will be announced from them.

I do hope whatever happens, this store doesn't just sit empty or be leased to a non-grocery tenant.

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Stater has said repeatedly they want to stick to the 45,000 Sq ft size box so I'm not sure this would be a store they want to open.

Albertsons ran it before and although it is small they have been able to add Pavilions assortment and amenities to similar size boxes in Laguna Beach on the north end, not to mention the remodeled Montecito store which at first looks to be just the previous store redecorated but actually has a completely different assortment. My guess would be Albertsons picks it up.

There are inklings of a new strategy for Amazon brewing however if you read between the lines of articles about the 7K format and others. It sounds like Amazon has finally figured it out and is merging leadership segments of Fresh/Go/Whole Foods. They have announced that they have a single store development department now from Real Estate to Store Design along with an analytics team that can decide if an area needs Fresh or WFM, if it can be as small as 30K or needs to be as large as 60K+, and so on. Amazon has quietly begun leasing new sites again although based on this reported strategy change we don't yet know what these stores will be... They have leased in Fountain Valley and Laguna Hills in the last six months now and are actively building the FV site which is going to be Fresh. So Amazon is definitely back into building Whole Foods stores and this would be a perfect site for them.

I would not expect anything here but another grocery store and I would expect that it's either going to Albertsons for one of their formats or Whole Foods.