ClownLoach wrote: ↑April 9th, 2024, 4:14 pm
This does not look like they did much of anything besides hang JCPenney signage, make checkout corrals, and paint the walls. Maybe the light bulbs were replaced with LED and a handful of new recessed spotlights added but the rest looks like L+T to me. Not even sure if the carpet was replaced.
The building is 120,000 Sq ft and the sales floor is only 65,000? So half the space is wasted on offices, stock rooms and other nonsense? This is the same problem Macy's has, incredibly unproductive space that is unnecessary in a world where you can meter out individual items to the stores from a distribution center. There is no reason to have so much back stock in modern department stores.
What happened to the "new look" store in Texas with the retro Penney's logo? That at least looked new. This could be a random pop up store for all I know if it wasn't for the checkout area.
The only exciting thing about this is that it's a department store opening instead of closing.
I assumed that the downsized space was because they didn't have enough merchandise to make it work, like how some of the "reopened" Sears Hometowns had conspicuously blocked-off areas.
It does not appear they did any real construction here. Cosmetic stuff that probably didn't even require a permit. I think this is just the store as it was and they didn't wall off anything more because tons was already behind doors.
The few times I visited a L&T in New Jersey I was surprised by the massive impression of the buildings from the exterior, then how tiny they were once you got inside. I did see that much of the high end women's clothing at L&T was boutique style displayed where there is maybe one dress on a sparsely stocked rack, and a salesperson is there who pulls your size from the back and takes you to a fitting room in a full service sales model. When I returned a few years later and shopped the closing sale it looked like they had increased the inventory by a thousand percent because everything had been pulled out of the stock rooms, and some stock rooms were propped open and merchandised so customers could shop them.
So at this new JCPenney they probably have tons of empty back rooms, offices etc. sitting mothballed and didn't actually downsize anything themselves. Right now this is a very popular way to set up stores as has been discussed elsewhere, I personally leased a 50K box where my company couldn't find any other suitable location to move to and they just walled off a third of it which was left unimproved with a couple small light fixtures and no AC and could only be accessed from the outside fire exits. Wasted space they didn't mind paying for as it would be too expensive to properly subdivide for another retailer to lease. Aldi just did this in Temecula, taking a huge furniture store and walling off nearly half of it on both ends just because they wanted the site. It can be cheaper to just take a larger box than you want if the landlord is motivated, as we know there is more retail square footage than is necessary in this country but a lot of it is in the wrong place.
ClownLoach wrote: ↑April 9th, 2024, 4:14 pm
This does not look like they did much of anything besides hang JCPenney signage, make checkout corrals, and paint the walls. Maybe the light bulbs were replaced with LED and a handful of new recessed spotlights added but the rest looks like L+T to me. Not even sure if the carpet was replaced.
The building is 120,000 Sq ft and the sales floor is only 65,000? So half the space is wasted on offices, stock rooms and other nonsense? This is the same problem Macy's has, incredibly unproductive space that is unnecessary in a world where you can meter out individual items to the stores from a distribution center. There is no reason to have so much back stock in modern department stores.
What happened to the "new look" store in Texas with the retro Penney's logo? That at least looked new. This could be a random pop up store for all I know if it wasn't for the checkout area.
The only exciting thing about this is that it's a department store opening instead of closing.
I assumed that the downsized space was because they didn't have enough merchandise to make it work, like how some of the "reopened" Sears Hometowns had conspicuously blocked-off areas.
It does not appear they did any real construction here. Cosmetic stuff that probably didn't even require a permit. I think this is just the store as it was and they didn't wall off anything more because tons was already behind doors.
The few times I visited a L&T in New Jersey I was surprised by the massive impression of the buildings from the exterior, then how tiny they were once you got inside. I did see that much of the high end women's clothing at L&T was boutique style displayed where there is maybe one dress on a sparsely stocked rack, and a salesperson is there who pulls your size from the back and takes you to a fitting room in a full service sales model. When I returned a few years later and shopped the closing sale it looked like they had increased the inventory by a thousand percent because everything had been pulled out of the stock rooms, and some stock rooms were propped open and merchandised so customers could shop them.
So at this new JCPenney they probably have tons of empty back rooms, offices etc. sitting mothballed and didn't actually downsize anything themselves. Right now this is a very popular way to set up stores as has been discussed elsewhere, I personally leased a 50K box where my company couldn't find any other suitable location to move to and they just walled off a third of it which was left unimproved with a couple small light fixtures and no AC and could only be accessed from the outside fire exits. Wasted space they didn't mind paying for as it would be too expensive to properly subdivide for another retailer to lease. Aldi just did this in Temecula, taking a huge furniture store and walling off nearly half of it on both ends just because they wanted the site. It can be cheaper to just take a larger box than you want if the landlord is motivated, as we know there is more retail square footage than is necessary in this country but a lot of it is in the wrong place.
The "too much retail space" is often used as a justification as to why retail stores continue to shrink, not the fact that there's dead space in deteriorating areas.
But as for the JCPenney, you're probably right that JCPenney never touched the space that Lord & Taylor already blocked. In looking at the history of this store it opened in 1969 as Ohrbach's as part of the mall, then became Steinbach in the 1980s, before closing in the mid-1990s. Then Lord & Taylor opened in 1997, with the building "gutted and expanded". Even for the late 1990s, I'm not sure department stores needed excessive backroom space.
Alpha8472 wrote: ↑April 9th, 2024, 8:25 pm
I was stuck in line at JCPenney, and many people were having problems using their JCPenney rewards program. The cashier would push signing up for Rewards and then people would have problems redeeming.
Then there were multiple issues with the cashier asking if you wanted to apply for a credit card. Then the door alarm would go off and the cashier would have to go to the door and check the person's merchandise for alarm tags.
It was worse than waiting in line at Ross or Burlington. At least at Burlington you don't have to deal with rewards and credit card offers.
Yep, they have a serious problem with faulty technology, bad processes from management, and poorly trained workers. They should be able to talk and work, offer a credit card or whatever other nonsense while they're scanning items. Management has provided some sort of long script, I've seen other mismanaged retailers that have made a simple checkout a "ten step process" which is both obnoxious to the customer and condescending to the worker. If the worker needs to be reminded that you say hello, ask if they found everything they needed, and say thank you at the end then they should not be in a retail store job, so none of that should be on a script. Hire people with that common sense to greet and thank, then emphasize quick and accurate transactions that respect the customer's (and company's) time. While scanning the items simply ask "would you like to apply for a JCPenney card and save X today?" and leave it at that so the customer can decide without feeling like their time isn't respected. JCPenney obviously doesn't understand this, and then you couple it with obviously faulty technology... What a mess. It doesn't matter what the store looks like, what merchandise they have, or what the prices are. This kind of experience pushes customers right into the hands of Amazon, TJX, and everyone in between. They probably drove past dozens of competitors selling similar apparel on the way to the mall. This poor experience now hurts JCPenney and everyone else at the mall as traffic deteriorates when customers choose less inconvenient stores. They need to fix these simple operational issues before they swallow the company whole.
Unfortunately, they are likely following the cheapo consultants directions to make rankings, scorecards and so forth to beat people over the head with for meaningless metrics like number of credit card applications daily. I call this "Upper Management for Dummies" which is sold by these consultants to brainless new executives who all cheated through school to get their MBA and have no clue how to actually run a business. The consultant bozo says that if they shove credit cards down every customer's throat they can make a few million a year in extra profit. Never mind the fact that the rest of the business is neglected leading to losses of hundreds of millions in sales and profit from the actual business. Then everyone is put under pressure for these areas like credit that are meaningless to the customer, while what actually matters to the customer is neglected (a clean, organized and fully stocked store with quick checkout). The demented upper management creates situations where the Store Manager is more worried about losing their job over stupid credit cards and rewards sign-ups than achieving sales and profit targets. They leap over dollars to pick up, well, pennies. How appropriate. This same tactic put Kohl's on life support, management was more worried about the trivial income from credit applications than anything else (the banks pay for these for many reasons, none of which are good for the customer!). Unfortunately I can think of several other retailers where the Store Manager is more worried about their credit card application counts than their sales, profit, payroll, or even if the store is clean and stocked. They will be fired over credit cards that pay the store tens of dollars each, but if the truck isn't stocked or you can smell the back corner restrooms from the front door that is okay. These consultants selling these tactics should be chained to a cash register and beaten daily over their credit sign-ups for a week, then see if they ever recommend this trivial nonsense again.
And surprise, surprise...the mall is owned by Brookfield, the partial owner of JCPenney. Seems to me like this store is nothing more than 'filler' to keep up the healthy mall appearances.
Also technically, this store is simply a relocation from another adjacent big box shopping plaza (Vornado-owned) in Wayne (which formerly was a mall as well until 2008!) https://patch.com/new-jersey/wayne/wayn ... -mall-year
So all in all, this is a big nothing.
Last edited by mbz321 on April 11th, 2024, 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alpha8472 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2024, 8:25 pm
The issue is the central checkout where the single line is so long, it makes customers just dump their merchandise and leave the store.
Totally agree, there is something fundamentally wrong with the JCPenney systems and processes because a queue line should not cause this issue. If anything it should prevent the old problem of getting in line behind the "wrong customer" who has some sort of complications. I have observed the same issue where for some inexplicable reason many of their transactions take forever, causing lines to build. Couple that with understaffed stores with too many visible employees that apparently do not ring on the register. Macy's does not have this problem nor does Kohl's and both slow down their process by trying to push credit cards and loyalty programs. I am not sure what transactions are the ones causing the issue, but I have noticed that they accept credit card payments at every register and those seem to be problematic. I always see at least one employee stuck on the phone trying to do something for a customer at JCPenney, unsure if it's credit lookup or what. They all seem to be able to perform markdowns without a manager present, unlike Macy's where most cashiers are very limited in their security clearance. They need to identify what exact type of transaction slows these lines and move it elsewhere, not sure if that's returns, online pickups or credit applications. Sorry but checkout needs to be fast and if you have to find where the return desk is hidden behind the pole on the 3rd floor back corner it is what it is. It's been a while since my last purchase at JCPenney but I recall the register transaction taking much longer than I would have expected, and it appeared that the cashier had to enter their username and password at the start of every single transaction.
I find the checkout experience to be terrible at both Macys and JCP. Both have very slow systems and ask too many questions. Dillards is better; never a credit card hard sell, or maybe I just don't look credit worthy so they leave me alone. Kohls is okay if they have enough cashiers (their system is at least fast).
JCP is requiring returns be taken to the old catalog counter now... they don't process those in the department anymore.
The only employees I see in JCP are on registers. They hardly have any employees here.
JCP was one of the last stores around to upgrade its registers to have pinpads and stop using "ink' printers for receipts. I think Gottschalks took even longer, they got pinpads about 4 months before going out of business. This is not an industry that has been good with technology or checkout.
Alpha8472 wrote: ↑April 9th, 2024, 8:25 pm
I was stuck in line at JCPenney, and many people were having problems using their JCPenney rewards program. The cashier would push signing up for Rewards and then people would have problems redeeming.
Then there were multiple issues with the cashier asking if you wanted to apply for a credit card. Then the door alarm would go off and the cashier would have to go to the door and check the person's merchandise for alarm tags.
It was worse than waiting in line at Ross or Burlington. At least at Burlington you don't have to deal with rewards and credit card offers.
Yep, they have a serious problem with faulty technology, bad processes from management, and poorly trained workers. They should be able to talk and work, offer a credit card or whatever other nonsense while they're scanning items. Management has provided some sort of long script, I've seen other mismanaged retailers that have made a simple checkout a "ten step process" which is both obnoxious to the customer and condescending to the worker. If the worker needs to be reminded that you say hello, ask if they found everything they needed, and say thank you at the end then they should not be in a retail store job, so none of that should be on a script. Hire people with that common sense to greet and thank, then emphasize quick and accurate transactions that respect the customer's (and company's) time. While scanning the items simply ask "would you like to apply for a JCPenney card and save X today?" and leave it at that so the customer can decide without feeling like their time isn't respected. JCPenney obviously doesn't understand this, and then you couple it with obviously faulty technology... What a mess. It doesn't matter what the store looks like, what merchandise they have, or what the prices are. This kind of experience pushes customers right into the hands of Amazon, TJX, and everyone in between. They probably drove past dozens of competitors selling similar apparel on the way to the mall. This poor experience now hurts JCPenney and everyone else at the mall as traffic deteriorates when customers choose less inconvenient stores. They need to fix these simple operational issues before they swallow the company whole.
Unfortunately, they are likely following the cheapo consultants directions to make rankings, scorecards and so forth to beat people over the head with for meaningless metrics like number of credit card applications daily. I call this "Upper Management for Dummies" which is sold by these consultants to brainless new executives who all cheated through school to get their MBA and have no clue how to actually run a business. The consultant bozo says that if they shove credit cards down every customer's throat they can make a few million a year in extra profit. Never mind the fact that the rest of the business is neglected leading to losses of hundreds of millions in sales and profit from the actual business. Then everyone is put under pressure for these areas like credit that are meaningless to the customer, while what actually matters to the customer is neglected (a clean, organized and fully stocked store with quick checkout). The demented upper management creates situations where the Store Manager is more worried about losing their job over stupid credit cards and rewards sign-ups than achieving sales and profit targets. They leap over dollars to pick up, well, pennies. How appropriate. This same tactic put Kohl's on life support, management was more worried about the trivial income from credit applications than anything else (the banks pay for these for many reasons, none of which are good for the customer!). Unfortunately I can think of several other retailers where the Store Manager is more worried about their credit card application counts than their sales, profit, payroll, or even if the store is clean and stocked. They will be fired over credit cards that pay the store tens of dollars each, but if the truck isn't stocked or you can smell the back corner restrooms from the front door that is okay. These consultants selling these tactics should be chained to a cash register and beaten daily over their credit sign-ups for a week, then see if they ever recommend this trivial nonsense again.
BINGO!!!!
Only thing missed is in the case of Sears: sales of extended warranties with appliances. They literally were told by management to refuse sales if customers declined protection plans in some stores under some managers due to the pressure. Customer won't buy a protection plan? Suddenly the item is out of stock and they don't know when it will be in stock (though when they were talking to you 10 minutes ago at the display model they told you they should be able to deliver it in the next few days/week)... oh sorry about that- didn't realize it was out of stock until I checked the computer...
mbz321 wrote: ↑April 10th, 2024, 7:23 pm
And surprise, surprise...the mall is owned by Brookfield, the partial owner of JCPenney. Seems to me like this store is nothing more than 'filler' to keep up the healthy mall appearances.
Also technically, this store is simply a relocation from another adjacent big box shopping plaza (Vornado-owned) in Wayne (which formerly was a mall as well until 2008!) https://patch.com/new-jersey/wayne/wayn ... -mall-year
So all in all, this is a big nothing.
This is why the store isn't a new concept, isn't remodeled, has old L&T dirty carpet.
Exactly what I suspected.
But really at this point the entire JCPenney enterprise is nothing but filler, that's why Brookfield and the other mall managers bought it. It is cheaper to operate it and fill it with fast fashion quality goods from partial owner Authentic Brands, even at a break even or slight loss, versus eat the massive rent concessions due to mall tenants when a required anchor tenant is missing. So run the store and maybe it loses a hundred thousand dollars a month, but you prevent a million dollars a month in rent concessions. Net $900K a month of increased income.
Yep, they have a serious problem with faulty technology, bad processes from management, and poorly trained workers. They should be able to talk and work, offer a credit card or whatever other nonsense while they're scanning items. Management has provided some sort of long script, I've seen other mismanaged retailers that have made a simple checkout a "ten step process" which is both obnoxious to the customer and condescending to the worker. If the worker needs to be reminded that you say hello, ask if they found everything they needed, and say thank you at the end then they should not be in a retail store job, so none of that should be on a script. Hire people with that common sense to greet and thank, then emphasize quick and accurate transactions that respect the customer's (and company's) time. While scanning the items simply ask "would you like to apply for a JCPenney card and save X today?" and leave it at that so the customer can decide without feeling like their time isn't respected. JCPenney obviously doesn't understand this, and then you couple it with obviously faulty technology... What a mess. It doesn't matter what the store looks like, what merchandise they have, or what the prices are. This kind of experience pushes customers right into the hands of Amazon, TJX, and everyone in between. They probably drove past dozens of competitors selling similar apparel on the way to the mall. This poor experience now hurts JCPenney and everyone else at the mall as traffic deteriorates when customers choose less inconvenient stores. They need to fix these simple operational issues before they swallow the company whole.
Unfortunately, they are likely following the cheapo consultants directions to make rankings, scorecards and so forth to beat people over the head with for meaningless metrics like number of credit card applications daily. I call this "Upper Management for Dummies" which is sold by these consultants to brainless new executives who all cheated through school to get their MBA and have no clue how to actually run a business. The consultant bozo says that if they shove credit cards down every customer's throat they can make a few million a year in extra profit. Never mind the fact that the rest of the business is neglected leading to losses of hundreds of millions in sales and profit from the actual business. Then everyone is put under pressure for these areas like credit that are meaningless to the customer, while what actually matters to the customer is neglected (a clean, organized and fully stocked store with quick checkout). The demented upper management creates situations where the Store Manager is more worried about losing their job over stupid credit cards and rewards sign-ups than achieving sales and profit targets. They leap over dollars to pick up, well, pennies. How appropriate. This same tactic put Kohl's on life support, management was more worried about the trivial income from credit applications than anything else (the banks pay for these for many reasons, none of which are good for the customer!). Unfortunately I can think of several other retailers where the Store Manager is more worried about their credit card application counts than their sales, profit, payroll, or even if the store is clean and stocked. They will be fired over credit cards that pay the store tens of dollars each, but if the truck isn't stocked or you can smell the back corner restrooms from the front door that is okay. These consultants selling these tactics should be chained to a cash register and beaten daily over their credit sign-ups for a week, then see if they ever recommend this trivial nonsense again.
BINGO!!!!
Only thing missed is in the case of Sears: sales of extended warranties with appliances. They literally were told by management to refuse sales if customers declined protection plans in some stores under some managers due to the pressure. Customer won't buy a protection plan? Suddenly the item is out of stock and they don't know when it will be in stock (though when they were talking to you 10 minutes ago at the display model they told you they should be able to deliver it in the next few days/week)... oh sorry about that- didn't realize it was out of stock until I checked the computer...
Sears was the model for extended warranties until the cost cutting and quality destroying era began. I think back to my parents and grandparents, they wouldn't think of buying an appliance from anywhere but Sears and would be asking the salesperson for the longest and most expensive warranty. Their service used to be outstanding. Then they destroyed their reputation by closing all the service centers, changing warranty terms to be less protective, raising prices, and subcontracting most of the work out which would mean a customer would wait weeks instead of hours for a repair person. One of the best examples of abusing the customers trust, which seemed to be intentional under Fast Eddie... Run the customers out as quickly as possible so he can sell the property. It's obvious he never wanted to transform anything other than his bank accounts to overflowing.
Alpha8472 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2024, 8:25 pm
The issue is the central checkout where the single line is so long, it makes customers just dump their merchandise and leave the store.
Totally agree, there is something fundamentally wrong with the JCPenney systems and processes because a queue line should not cause this issue. If anything it should prevent the old problem of getting in line behind the "wrong customer" who has some sort of complications. I have observed the same issue where for some inexplicable reason many of their transactions take forever, causing lines to build. Couple that with understaffed stores with too many visible employees that apparently do not ring on the register. Macy's does not have this problem nor does Kohl's and both slow down their process by trying to push credit cards and loyalty programs. I am not sure what transactions are the ones causing the issue, but I have noticed that they accept credit card payments at every register and those seem to be problematic. I always see at least one employee stuck on the phone trying to do something for a customer at JCPenney, unsure if it's credit lookup or what. They all seem to be able to perform markdowns without a manager present, unlike Macy's where most cashiers are very limited in their security clearance. They need to identify what exact type of transaction slows these lines and move it elsewhere, not sure if that's returns, online pickups or credit applications. Sorry but checkout needs to be fast and if you have to find where the return desk is hidden behind the pole on the 3rd floor back corner it is what it is. It's been a while since my last purchase at JCPenney but I recall the register transaction taking much longer than I would have expected, and it appeared that the cashier had to enter their username and password at the start of every single transaction.
I find the checkout experience to be terrible at both Macys and JCP. Both have very slow systems and ask too many questions. Dillards is better; never a credit card hard sell, or maybe I just don't look credit worthy so they leave me alone. Kohls is okay if they have enough cashiers (their system is at least fast).
JCP is requiring returns be taken to the old catalog counter now... they don't process those in the department anymore.
The only employees I see in JCP are on registers. They hardly have any employees here.
JCP was one of the last stores around to upgrade its registers to have pinpads and stop using "ink' printers for receipts. I think Gottschalks took even longer, they got pinpads about 4 months before going out of business. This is not an industry that has been good with technology or checkout.
Macy's runs a version of the same system Target did up until a couple years ago when they switched to their in house developed "App Style" register designed to reduce training time for cashiers as it looks and works like a smartphone app. Macy's registers are lightning fast in most stores, but I've seen some that do take forever to process credit cards and such which I chalk up to their internet. They do add serial number tags on items where they aren't pre-printed but these days they seldom have to manually apply the sticker, they just scan the first and second barcode without any delay.
I learned the hard way old shopping center buildings frequently do not have modern high speed internet options available to them. The providers subsidize the costs of consumer service by charging businesses much more. I have had 60 year old buildings where they were still running impossibly slow DSL lines up to 2020, and the phone company wanted $25K to run fiber to the building. If it was your house they'd gladly run the fiber for free as long as it was in your neighborhood. Cell reception wasn't adequate for a backup like a Verizon or T-Mobile cellular data line. Those situations translate to very slow registers in old buildings that cannot get an adequate broadband connection. AT&T (in old SBC and Pacific Bell areas) is especially horrible about these charges to upgrade shopping centers, malls etc. and in some areas has monopoly agreements that the cable companies can't run a line to the stores. Old relics of the Bell System before the breakup that live today. In these cases the stores would be better off potentially using a Square or Clover payment system that connects to cellular and only has to process credit cards, but then they would have to pay for that processing and they wouldn't have the payment data linked to the transaction on the register.
Macy's runs a version of the same system Target did up until a couple years ago when they switched to their in house developed "App Style" register designed to reduce training time for cashiers as it looks and works like a smartphone app. Macy's registers are lightning fast in most stores, but I've seen some that do take forever to process credit cards and such which I chalk up to their internet. They do add serial number tags on items where they aren't pre-printed but these days they seldom have to manually apply the sticker, they just scan the first and second barcode without any delay.
I learned the hard way old shopping center buildings frequently do not have modern high speed internet options available to them. The providers subsidize the costs of consumer service by charging businesses much more. I have had 60 year old buildings where they were still running impossibly slow DSL lines up to 2020, and the phone company wanted $25K to run fiber to the building. If it was your house they'd gladly run the fiber for free as long as it was in your neighborhood. Cell reception wasn't adequate for a backup like a Verizon or T-Mobile cellular data line. Those situations translate to very slow registers in old buildings that cannot get an adequate broadband connection. AT&T (in old SBC and Pacific Bell areas) is especially horrible about these charges to upgrade shopping centers, malls etc. and in some areas has monopoly agreements that the cable companies can't run a line to the stores. Old relics of the Bell System before the breakup that live today. In these cases the stores would be better off potentially using a Square or Clover payment system that connects to cellular and only has to process credit cards, but then they would have to pay for that processing and they wouldn't have the payment data linked to the transaction on the register.
Only some Macys locations do the return barcodes on products. That isn't a chainwide thing. Also some items are exempt from the return barcodes.
Their pinpad seems to take forever once you bypass Star Rewards or even if you input it and hangs on "processing" forever. Then once the cashier finishes scanning and totals and tries to send the transaction to the pinpad there seems to be a 10+ second delay to get the pinpad to turn on then it asks for a donation before finally allowing you to run a third party credit or debit card to pay. Their registers are very old NCR units. I think I've seen some with IBM/Toshiba hardware running that same software (may have been a Bloomingdales).
I have noticed the Macys checkout process is MUCH faster for customers who are paying with a Macys card. Due to wanting to collect the swipe at the start of transaction for Star Rewards and also due to eliminating all of the questions they ask it does go much faster for those customers as long as they have a physical card they are using.
Dillards seems to do manual return barcodes on every item. Another very old slow system is used there. They recently turned on tap. They are performing AVS zip code on American Express and Mastercard transactions (but not on Visa). Not a great process.
