Store Evacuations

[ClownLoach]

I've had interactions with employees in stores wearing these earpieces where we are in the middle of some kind of an interaction or conversation but something comes across the earpiece that is directed at the employee who is talking to me and it isn't good because they have to temporarily pause our interaction but I don't realize it immediately, then then they only half listened to the earpiece message so they have to ask for that to get repeated. Then once the earpiece message gets heard/handled I get to repeat whatever it is I was saying as the earpiece message came through.

Fred Meyer used to have its employees use some basically cordless phones that certain managers/employees would carry around. The phones linked to the store PA system as well. They would literally just call each other on the phones when they were looking for one another. I think Home Depot or Lowes used to use those too. Typically management and loss prevention would have their own phones and certain floor employees would have a "shared" phone.

There are a lot of chains that had old fashioned phone systems, copper wire and a PBX system in the back room usually near electrical breakers. Many of the manufacturers of these PBX phone systems have gone out of business entirely, or they have chosen to stop making parts. So the chains that care and do things correctly will replace the old PBX with a VOIP system that uses the internet for phone lines. In some cases if they were lucky and their PBX is still supported by a vendor that hasn't closed then they can just plug in a new IP box that moves the existing phones to a VOIP format and everything works the same for the store but on the back end they now have the reliability of internet based phones. These days if your copper phone lines go down the phone company may take several weeks to repair them, up to a month! So the upgrades have to be done and again when done correctly the PBX that interfaces with the paging system gets new IP capabilities.

Now here's the problem: many retailers are cheap. So there are newer options coming out which are "virtual phones" where everything is just coming in over the internet. These solutions are very popular with stores. The "virtual phone" is just an app on a handheld device, usually an iPhone or Android phone and it is not "talking to" any hardware in the store. That includes the paging system. In the stores where these systems are put in the entire phone system is otherwise decommissioned and the phones themselves just unplugged and thrown in the electronic waste bin. And all of the virtual phone upgrades can be done remotely by an IT guy at the home office who just poets the store phone numbers over to the virtual operator overnight. Then the next day the phones are dead and there's some new app on the store handhelds which is the new store phone system.

I think these virtual phones are just bad for many reasons. First, I've learned when you call a store with these systems you run into occasional problems such as the seeming "hangup" where it sounds like an employee answered and then disconnected the call a second later. Apparently this is common if an employee answers and they're in a spot where Wifi is poor, and we all know how bad Wifi can be in buildings where it was added as a retrofit instead of being installed at time of construction. Second, it just seems weird and unprofessional as it creates the appearance employees are on their personal phones as they walk around the store talking. Maybe it's easier not to be tied to a phone although every chain I worked with had a couple of cordless phones connected to the system which don't have the appearance of being personal devices. Walmart currently has this program and it just looks bad. There all employees now can use their personal phone as their store handheld device, and many choose to do exactly that. I guess they install a workplace app that gives them options from the time clock on their phone to all the inventory management and lookup. I've seen some incredibly non work appropriate cell phone cases on these employees personal phones when you ask for help and they pull out the phone to scan the shelf label and such. Finally, it is still possible to resurrect the interface to the paging system in the store but with the virtual phones they need a technician to basically run a new line from the back room to the front or wherever and they get an old school microphone with push button to page (like the show Superstore would use as a comedic device). But because this costs thousands of dollars these cheap chains won't pay to wire up and save the PA.

I really think this should be an OSHA requirement, and there are other requirements that can't be met without a working PA system. Code Adam is a program to prevent child abduction in stores and many chains train on it. When a child abduction is reported the program is to immediately page Code Adam and all employees are to secure the facility immediately moving to cover all exits before law enforcement can arrive so that they can monitor for the missing and possibly abducted child. Once again I can see how not having a PA system could both create an opportunity for an abductor to escape undetected as the store staff scramble to secure the store possibly taking longer since not everyone got the message immediately, and it could also encourage them to try to carry out the crime because they don't hear the "Code Adam Missing Child" page overhead that is intended to deter them. And of course the emergency evacuation needs, natural disasters etc. warrant the working PA system which seems less likely to me to create panic than random employees yelling down the aisles to please evacuate.

Any store of decent size, dollar stores/drugstores and up, basically any store where you can't be heard through the entire sales floor if you raise your voice, should be required to have a PA system in working order for safety reasons.

What's weird is that there are VoIP paging adapters that are simple to install. You take the wires off the existing PBX that go to the PA amplifier, plug them into the VoIP paging adapter, provision the secure extension, and off you go. It is just an additional extension with no outside access, and there are ways to do key mapping so you do not have to change the page code from the prior system.

Correct, but the new trend is to just completely decommission the entire phone system in the store and just go to a VOIP app based system where the phone lines are all moved to a cloud based system. The PBX and related equipment is decommissioned, so there is no device that connects. Everything is moved to the cloud. Stores are using the cloud only app based systems in all new construction, leaving no phone equipment whatsoever in the store. The PA is only an amplifier with some kind of Muzak type source plugged in which either uses a thumb drive or Wi-Fi to update. Now these same chains are decommissioning the old equipment to save money. They move the phone lines to the VOIP cloud carrier and just turn off and throw away all the in store equipment. A 1000+ store chain I left a few years ago is currently in this transition and the store employees hate it. They previously had transitioned all the lines with a VOIP adapter but the manufacturer of their phone systems has closed and refurbished parts are hard to find these days so they just gave up on everything and went cloud/app based. I suspect their next move will be to reroute all inbound calls to a overseas call center which will screen the calls and answer basic questions.

[HoustonRetail]

Anecdotally, I was recently in a mall when a fight broke out in the food court, which culminated with one person flashing a gun before they left. I was shopping with someone else in an anchor and noticed a couple of people with kids in tow quickly walking through the store, but I didn't connect it to anything.

We were unaware of what was going on, and the anchor did nothing. We started to walk into the mall, maybe five minutes after seeing the people rush through. We had previously been in the mall, and didn't feel anything odd about going back in. Although walking in, I noticed oddly a shop owner was openly vaping at the entrance to his store, and a few other shop owners were huddled talking near him.

We began walking towards the food court, which was far off and passed stores that simply appeared closed. The gates shut, completely empty. Although it was hit or miss, and many people were still browsing the open stores and walking normally through the corridors. We didn't realize anything was up until we saw a "closed" store with customers inside, opening the gates to let them out.

No announcement was ever made; I'm almost positive the mall does have a P.A.; it certainly did a couple of years ago. It was obvious that the response was not coordinated. This was a major suburban mall run by the biggest operator out there. Working in an industry that strongly emphasizes response protocols, I found it quite shocking to see the failings of these individualized responses.

[Alpha8472]

Costco definitely should have some kind of PA system added. There was a toxic cloud moving through the store.

I was also watching video of a Costco being evacuated due to a firestorm approaching outside. If there is no PA system someone will miss the warnings to evacuate.

[ClownLoach]

What is unfortunate is that I suspect there is going to be a preventable tragedy somewhere because these facilities are being allowed to save a few thousand dollars on public address systems. A PA system can lead to an orderly evacuation before guests begin to panic and stampede, start going in the wrong direction into the path of danger and so forth.

There was a tragedy in 1980 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas which had inadequate fire alarms and no public address system. 87 people were killed because they didnt know the building was burning and they couldn't escape before the smoke and flames spread. Unbelievably, the hotel was repaired and rebranded and you can stay in what was likely a once burned room... It's now branded as the Horseshoe Casino, but spent most of the last few decades as Bally's. Many laws were changed as a result of that fire including public address systems.

[BillyGr]

Anecdotally, I was recently in a mall when a fight broke out in the food court, which culminated with one person flashing a gun before they left. I was shopping with someone else in an anchor and noticed a couple of people with kids in tow quickly walking through the store, but I didn't connect it to anything.

No announcement was ever made; I'm almost positive the mall does have a P.A.; it certainly did a couple of years ago. It was obvious that the response was not coordinated. This was a major suburban mall run by the biggest operator out there. Working in an industry that strongly emphasizes response protocols, I found it quite shocking to see the failings of these individualized responses.

I'd suspect that is intentional - with something like that, which is only impacting a small area (and likely not even most there, since you say that someone showed they had a weapon, but not that they used it, and certainly not that they were planning to go wild running through the mall using it), there may be more problems if the news spreads and others panic for no reason.

[BillyGr]

What is unfortunate is that I suspect there is going to be a preventable tragedy somewhere because these facilities are being allowed to save a few thousand dollars on public address systems. A PA system can lead to an orderly evacuation before guests begin to panic and stampede, start going in the wrong direction into the path of danger and so forth.

There was a tragedy in 1980 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas which had inadequate fire alarms and no public address system. 87 people were killed because they didnt know the building was burning and they couldn't escape before the smoke and flames spread. Unbelievably, the hotel was repaired and rebranded and you can stay in what was likely a once burned room... It's now branded as the Horseshoe Casino, but spent most of the last few decades as Bally's. Many laws were changed as a result of that fire including public address systems.

Though, if all the places now have better alarm systems, simply having an employee set one of those off will quickly notify everyone that there is an issue and that they need to leave the building. Beyond that, it's up to the people inside to remember how to do so safely (unless they were all homeschooled, most everyone in any given building has done fire drills repeatedly as a child, if not later on since many businesses do them as well, so simply think of those as to how to exit quickly but in an orderly fashion, even if you don't know the exact route by just looking for a sign for fire exits that businesses also have all around).
Not that the PA can't be helpful, but it certainly doesn't seem needed to make things work.

[brendenmoney]

What is unfortunate is that I suspect there is going to be a preventable tragedy somewhere because these facilities are being allowed to save a few thousand dollars on public address systems. A PA system can lead to an orderly evacuation before guests begin to panic and stampede, start going in the wrong direction into the path of danger and so forth.

There was a tragedy in 1980 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas which had inadequate fire alarms and no public address system. 87 people were killed because they didnt know the building was burning and they couldn't escape before the smoke and flames spread. Unbelievably, the hotel was repaired and rebranded and you can stay in what was likely a once burned room... It's now branded as the Horseshoe Casino, but spent most of the last few decades as Bally's. Many laws were changed as a result of that fire including public address systems.

Though, if all the places now have better alarm systems, simply having an employee set one of those off will quickly notify everyone that there is an issue and that they need to leave the building. Beyond that, it's up to the people inside to remember how to do so safely (unless they were all homeschooled, most everyone in any given building has done fire drills repeatedly as a child, if not later on since many businesses do them as well, so simply think of those as to how to exit quickly but in an orderly fashion, even if you don't know the exact route by just looking for a sign for fire exits that businesses also have all around).
Not that the PA can't be helpful, but it certainly doesn't seem needed to make things work.

Most stores around the country have proper alarms systems today. I think in part, stores today opt to not install PA systems and justify their reasoning with the fact that most states require larger big box stores to have store-wide fire alarm systems, and can say that if there is an emergency, an employee can simply pull the fire alarm so that all employees and shoppers would evacuate. In the Costco scenario with the chemical spill, it is likely the fire department would have to be called anyways, so they may as well have pulled the fire alarm. In many emergency scenarios, the fire department would likely have to get involved, so pulling the fire alarm can be a simple solution in the eyes of store owners.

I can see this being what stores justify as their reasoning, and it makes sense except for one issue... many shoppers in the store may not see an immediate threat, and simply will just ignore the alarm and keep shopping, hence why having a PA system to further warn shoppers is probably a good idea.

While many states have required full-scale fire alarm systems in large big-box stores for a few decades now, my own state of California to my knowledge didn't require a major fire alarm system to be installed in large big box stores, and by this I mean fire alarm ceiling strobes throughout the store, until the early 2010's. This is why in many large stores in California, there is only a single strobe and a fire-alarm pull typically located at the front of the store, which would likely set off the sprinkler system if pulled. However, those older stores likely had a PA installed, and many of them likely still have a PA, to warn shoppers of an emergency should one arise.

[ClownLoach]

What is unfortunate is that I suspect there is going to be a preventable tragedy somewhere because these facilities are being allowed to save a few thousand dollars on public address systems. A PA system can lead to an orderly evacuation before guests begin to panic and stampede, start going in the wrong direction into the path of danger and so forth.

There was a tragedy in 1980 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas which had inadequate fire alarms and no public address system. 87 people were killed because they didnt know the building was burning and they couldn't escape before the smoke and flames spread. Unbelievably, the hotel was repaired and rebranded and you can stay in what was likely a once burned room... It's now branded as the Horseshoe Casino, but spent most of the last few decades as Bally's. Many laws were changed as a result of that fire including public address systems.

Though, if all the places now have better alarm systems, simply having an employee set one of those off will quickly notify everyone that there is an issue and that they need to leave the building. Beyond that, it's up to the people inside to remember how to do so safely (unless they were all homeschooled, most everyone in any given building has done fire drills repeatedly as a child, if not later on since many businesses do them as well, so simply think of those as to how to exit quickly but in an orderly fashion, even if you don't know the exact route by just looking for a sign for fire exits that businesses also have all around).
Not that the PA can't be helpful, but it certainly doesn't seem needed to make things work.

Most stores around the country have proper alarms systems today. I think in part, stores today opt to not install PA systems and justify their reasoning with the fact that most states require larger big box stores to have store-wide fire alarm systems, and can say that if there is an emergency, an employee can simply pull the fire alarm so that all employees and shoppers would evacuate. In the Costco scenario with the chemical spill, it is likely the fire department would have to be called anyways, so they may as well have pulled the fire alarm. In many emergency scenarios, the fire department would likely have to get involved, so pulling the fire alarm can be a simple solution in the eyes of store owners.

I can see this being what stores justify as their reasoning, and it makes sense except for one issue... many shoppers in the store may not see an immediate threat, and simply will just ignore the alarm and keep shopping, hence why having a PA system to further warn shoppers is probably a good idea.

While many states have required full-scale fire alarm systems in large big-box stores for a few decades now, my own state of California to my knowledge didn't require a major fire alarm system to be installed in large big box stores, and by this I mean fire alarm ceiling strobes throughout the store, until the early 2010's. This is why in many large stores in California, there is only a single strobe and a fire-alarm pull typically located at the front of the store, which would likely set off the sprinkler system if pulled. However, those older stores likely had a PA installed, and many of them likely still have a PA, to warn shoppers of an emergency should one arise.

And you're correct that nobody pays attention to the blinking lights or alarm, nor does this tell anyone what to do. A blinky light doesn't tell you how to evacuate, where to go, etc.

Furthermore older buildings aren't required to update either as far as I've seen. The last new store I opened was just before the pandemic and it was in a 90s building that didn't have any of the latest fire alarm tech. In fact many buildings have fire alarms that only report to the landlord and the retailer doesn't have any control over the process of notification or anything else besides pulling the lever if it even exists (and you'd be surprised how many stores don't even have a single pull alarm).

So stores don't have PA systems anymore, while if you buy a new home now your smoke detectors are networked and will verbally tell you where the (possible) fire is such as "Smoke detected downstairs in Kitchen" to help you evacuate while also sending the same info to the monitoring center for your alarm company.

In other words, your home fire alarms are more protective than those in a big box where there could be thousands of people (like Costco) with a limited number of emergency exits which are not necessarily easily visible from most of the store.

[storewanderer]

Dollar General has a PA system in the stores that is accessible by remote security. They can make pages over the PA but nobody in the store can. They just yell.

The remote security that monitors certain stores makes announcements that it is monitoring. They aren't recordings, they are real people announcing.

[Alpha8472]

I have been in Walmart stores where the fire alarms were being tested. It went on for several minutes. Not many customers even noticed. They kept shopping. The stores then announced they were testing alarms. If it were a real emergency people would ignore fire alarms unless they see actual flames.

I have seen videos of Costco stores being evacuated due to incoming firestorms. It showed 1 police officer running through the store as shoppers still pushed their carts around the store. A Costco evacuation is the slowest and most disorganized among all the major retail chains due to the lack of a PA system. I know of 2 Walmart stores that were converted from Costco stores. They both have tall ceilings and yet PA systems were installed, and announcements are clearly heard.