🛒 Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California Impact

[ClownLoach]

I know I'm a little late, but I'm recently catching up with the latest divesture plan announced by Kroger.

According to what I read, Kroger is divesting the Albertsons banner to C&S in California. I wonder if this includes the Vons and Pavilions banner also being divested? Or just the Albertsons banner alone?

As a So Cal resident that lives in a city that has a Ralphs, Vons, Pavilions, and Food 4 Less all within a 3 mile radius, I'm interested to see how this will play out.

In my opinion, the best way for Kroger to consolidate the banners in Southern California would be:
- Ralphs (traditional "mid-tier" format)
- Pavilions (their higher end format banner, possibly eliminating the Fresh Fare branding)
- Food 4 Less (keeping their price impact format)

This would end up eliminating the Vons banner, since in my opinion, it would make no sense for them to have both Ralphs and Vons branded stores, since they both basically serve the same clientele and having too many banners in the same geographical region would create too much confusion for customers, and for printing their ads. Plus I don't see Kroger eliminating their own banner Ralphs in favor of Vons.

I also don't see Kroger eliminating Food 4 Less or converting it to another format (or vice versa), since Food 4 Less employees are under a different union contract, and any banner conversion with F4L would result in "closing" the existing store, thus resulting negative PR for Kroger.

They are proposing to give C&S the rights to only the Albertsons banner in California. Kroger would retain the Vons banner.

If this merger goes through, they will need both banners. Combining them would create the illusion of a monopoly, while having two banners would create the illusion of competition. That is why Albertsons kept both banners after merging with Safeway.

Also, rebannering a store is very expensive and disruptive, and tends to put off customers. Albertsons learned that the hard way when they rebannered Lucky. I don't think Kroger will make that same mistake again.

Well, Kroger has to make the same mistake purely based off the numbers here. First, just eyeballing the main LA basin they have more Vons than Albertsons they have to divest there as true overlaps. So maybe 40 out of the 63 stores going to C&S will be Vons that have to change banner to Albertsons. Next, there are about 120 Albertsons branded stores, so that means about 100 Albertsons units will be kept and need to change banner to Ralphs, Vons, or Pavilions. So because of their poor decision to license the Albertsons name in California there are at least 140 stores that will change banners, and all of them will be in Southern or Central California. There's going to be mass disruption and absolute chaos no matter what, far worse than the Haggen debacle. In fact I don't think they have any clue in Ohio what Californians think about when changes like this occur, and they probably are so arrogant they figure it won't matter because they are going to be so dominant anyway especially when C&S soils the bed as expected.

I do agree that they are likely to use all three remaining banners, Ralphs, Vons, and Pavilions for some time. The question will be what banners go up where the sign has to change, and I would assume that in most cases the Ralphs banner would be chosen. That is going to be disruptive for them as well because there are some markets where Albertsons is absolutely dominant that have been mentioned and/or Ralphs has closed most of their units (Central Coast, Ventura County, Santa Barbara County, SW Riverside County, North San Diego County). So for the areas where Ralphs obviously mismanaged their brand and closed tons of stores, leaving the unexpected success and expansion of Albertsons, you also have most of the positive population areas and new home growth. So putting the Ralphs banner on all of those Albertsons may not be good for business. Obviously they should have rethought the entire deal, but instead it's obvious some consultant morons are playing with branding surveys and indexes to make the best deal for Kroger and the least viable path for C&S. The only real answer I see is that the Safeway name goes entirely to C&S and then is licensed back in NorCal which is pretty much the only place that name is really loved by the customer. Bonus is in SoCal it would really create the appearance of a new competitor if all the C&S units were rebranded as Safeway and the rest stay as they are.

[reymann]

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EXPAND VIEWTOPIC REVIEW: KROGER-ALBERTSONS MERGER: CALIFORNIA IMPACT
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote ClownLoach
by ClownLoach » Today, 7:10 am

HCal wrote: ↑Today, 1:45 am
SoCalShopper1023 wrote: ↑Yesterday, 11:47 am
I know I'm a little late, but I'm recently catching up with the latest divesture plan announced by Kroger.

According to what I read, Kroger is divesting the Albertsons banner to C&S in California. I wonder if this includes the Vons and Pavilions banner also being divested? Or just the Albertsons banner alone?

As a So Cal resident that lives in a city that has a Ralphs, Vons, Pavilions, and Food 4 Less all within a 3 mile radius, I'm interested to see how this will play out.

In my opinion, the best way for Kroger to consolidate the banners in Southern California would be:
- Ralphs (traditional "mid-tier" format)
- Pavilions (their higher end format banner, possibly eliminating the Fresh Fare branding)
- Food 4 Less (keeping their price impact format)

This would end up eliminating the Vons banner, since in my opinion, it would make no sense for them to have both Ralphs and Vons branded stores, since they both basically serve the same clientele and having too many banners in the same geographical region would create too much confusion for customers, and for printing their ads. Plus I don't see Kroger eliminating their own banner Ralphs in favor of Vons.

I also don't see Kroger eliminating Food 4 Less or converting it to another format (or vice versa), since Food 4 Less employees are under a different union contract, and any banner conversion with F4L would result in "closing" the existing store, thus resulting negative PR for Kroger.
They are proposing to give C&S the rights to only the Albertsons banner in California. Kroger would retain the Vons banner.

If this merger goes through, they will need both banners. Combining them would create the illusion of a monopoly, while having two banners would create the illusion of competition. That is why Albertsons kept both banners after merging with Safeway.

Also, rebannering a store is very expensive and disruptive, and tends to put off customers. Albertsons learned that the hard way when they rebannered Lucky. I don't think Kroger will make that same mistake again.
Well, Kroger has to make the same mistake purely based off the numbers here. First, just eyeballing the main LA basin they have more Vons than Albertsons they have to divest there as true overlaps. So maybe 40 out of the 63 stores going to C&S will be Vons that have to change banner to Albertsons. Next, there are about 120 Albertsons branded stores, so that means about 100 Albertsons units will be kept and need to change banner to Ralphs, Vons, or Pavilions. So because of their poor decision to license the Albertsons name in California there are at least 140 stores that will change banners, and all of them will be in Southern or Central California. There's going to be mass disruption and absolute chaos no matter what, far worse than the Haggen debacle. In fact I don't think they have any clue in Ohio what Californians think about when changes like this occur, and they probably are so arrogant they figure it won't matter because they are going to be so dominant anyway especially when C&S soils the bed as expected.

I do agree that they are likely to use all three remaining banners, Ralphs, Vons, and Pavilions for some time. The question will be what banners go up where the sign has to change, and I would assume that in most cases the Ralphs banner would be chosen. That is going to be disruptive for them as well because there are some markets where Albertsons is absolutely dominant that have been mentioned and/or Ralphs has closed most of their units (Central Coast, Ventura County, Santa Barbara County, SW Riverside County, North San Diego County). So for the areas where Ralphs obviously mismanaged their brand and closed tons of stores, leaving the unexpected success and expansion of Albertsons, you also have most of the positive population areas and new home growth. So putting the Ralphs banner on all of those Albertsons may not be good for business. Obviously they should have rethought the entire deal, but instead it's obvious some consultant morons are playing with branding surveys and indexes to make the best deal for Kroger and the least viable path for C&S. The only real answer I see is that the Safeway name goes entirely to C&S and then is licensed back in NorCal which is pretty much the only place that name is really loved by the customer. Bonus is in SoCal it would really create the appearance of a new competitor if all the C&S units were rebranded as Safeway and the rest stay as they are.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote ClownLoach
by ClownLoach » Today, 6:57 am

reymann wrote: ↑Yesterday, 11:57 am
SoCalShopper1023 wrote: ↑Yesterday, 11:47 am
I know I'm a little late, but I'm recently catching up with the latest divesture plan announced by Kroger.

According to what I read, Kroger is divesting the Albertsons banner to C&S in California. I wonder if this includes the Vons and Pavilions banner also being divested? Or just the Albertsons banner alone?

As a So Cal resident that lives in a city that has a Ralphs, Vons, Pavilions, and Food 4 Less all within a 3 mile radius, I'm interested to see how this will play out.

In my opinion, the best way for Kroger to consolidate the banners in Southern California would be:
- Ralphs (traditional "mid-tier" format)
- Pavilions (their higher end format banner, possibly eliminating the Fresh Fare branding)
- Food 4 Less (keeping their price impact format)

This would end up eliminating the Vons banner, since in my opinion, it would make no sense for them to have both Ralphs and Vons branded stores, since they both basically serve the same clientele and having too many banners in the same geographical region would create too much confusion for customers, and for printing their ads. Plus I don't see Kroger eliminating their own banner Ralphs in favor of Vons.

I also don't see Kroger eliminating Food 4 Less or converting it to another format (or vice versa), since Food 4 Less employees are under a different union contract, and any banner conversion with F4L would result in "closing" the existing store, thus resulting negative PR for Kroger.

I don't see the Ralphs banner working on the central coast and in Kern county. I would keep the Albertsons banner in those areas and rebrand the Fresno area Vons stores to Safeway since their circular with the NorCal stores.
They don't get to keep the Albertsons banner. All C&S units in California will be rebranded to Albertsons, which means all Albertsons units Kroger keeps will have to be rebranded to something else. At this point I think their best bet is to bring the Safeway banner further South as Ralphs has a poor reputation on the Central Coast while Albertsons is the market leader but they have to change the branding anyway.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote HCal
by HCal » Today, 1:45 am

SoCalShopper1023 wrote: ↑Yesterday, 11:47 am
I know I'm a little late, but I'm recently catching up with the latest divesture plan announced by Kroger.

According to what I read, Kroger is divesting the Albertsons banner to C&S in California. I wonder if this includes the Vons and Pavilions banner also being divested? Or just the Albertsons banner alone?

As a So Cal resident that lives in a city that has a Ralphs, Vons, Pavilions, and Food 4 Less all within a 3 mile radius, I'm interested to see how this will play out.

In my opinion, the best way for Kroger to consolidate the banners in Southern California would be:
- Ralphs (traditional "mid-tier" format)
- Pavilions (their higher end format banner, possibly eliminating the Fresh Fare branding)
- Food 4 Less (keeping their price impact format)

This would end up eliminating the Vons banner, since in my opinion, it would make no sense for them to have both Ralphs and Vons branded stores, since they both basically serve the same clientele and having too many banners in the same geographical region would create too much confusion for customers, and for printing their ads. Plus I don't see Kroger eliminating their own banner Ralphs in favor of Vons.

I also don't see Kroger eliminating Food 4 Less or converting it to another format (or vice versa), since Food 4 Less employees are under a different union contract, and any banner conversion with F4L would result in "closing" the existing store, thus resulting negative PR for Kroger.
They are proposing to give C&S the rights to only the Albertsons banner in California. Kroger would retain the Vons banner.

If this merger goes through, they will need both banners. Combining them would create the illusion of a monopoly, while having two banners would create the illusion of competition. That is why Albertsons kept both banners after merging with Safeway.

Also, rebannering a store is very expensive and disruptive, and tends to put off customers. Albertsons learned that the hard way when they rebannered Lucky. I don't think Kroger will make that same mistake again.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote reymann
by reymann » Yesterday, 11:57 am

SoCalShopper1023 wrote: ↑Yesterday, 11:47 am
I know I'm a little late, but I'm recently catching up with the latest divesture plan announced by Kroger.

According to what I read, Kroger is divesting the Albertsons banner to C&S in California. I wonder if this includes the Vons and Pavilions banner also being divested? Or just the Albertsons banner alone?

As a So Cal resident that lives in a city that has a Ralphs, Vons, Pavilions, and Food 4 Less all within a 3 mile radius, I'm interested to see how this will play out.

In my opinion, the best way for Kroger to consolidate the banners in Southern California would be:
- Ralphs (traditional "mid-tier" format)
- Pavilions (their higher end format banner, possibly eliminating the Fresh Fare branding)
- Food 4 Less (keeping their price impact format)

This would end up eliminating the Vons banner, since in my opinion, it would make no sense for them to have both Ralphs and Vons branded stores, since they both basically serve the same clientele and having too many banners in the same geographical region would create too much confusion for customers, and for printing their ads. Plus I don't see Kroger eliminating their own banner Ralphs in favor of Vons.

I also don't see Kroger eliminating Food 4 Less or converting it to another format (or vice versa), since Food 4 Less employees are under a different union contract, and any banner conversion with F4L would result in "closing" the existing store, thus resulting negative PR for Kroger.

I don't see the Ralphs banner working on the central coast and in Kern county. I would keep the Albertsons banner in those areas and rebrand the Fresno area Vons stores to Safeway since their circular with the NorCal stores.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote SoCalShopper1023
by SoCalShopper1023 » Yesterday, 11:47 am

I know I'm a little late, but I'm recently catching up with the latest divesture plan announced by Kroger.

According to what I read, Kroger is divesting the Albertsons banner to C&S in California. I wonder if this includes the Vons and Pavilions banner also being divested? Or just the Albertsons banner alone?

As a So Cal resident that lives in a city that has a Ralphs, Vons, Pavilions, and Food 4 Less all within a 3 mile radius, I'm interested to see how this will play out.

In my opinion, the best way for Kroger to consolidate the banners in Southern California would be:
- Ralphs (traditional "mid-tier" format)
- Pavilions (their higher end format banner, possibly eliminating the Fresh Fare branding)
- Food 4 Less (keeping their price impact format)

This would end up eliminating the Vons banner, since in my opinion, it would make no sense for them to have both Ralphs and Vons branded stores, since they both basically serve the same clientele and having too many banners in the same geographical region would create too much confusion for customers, and for printing their ads. Plus I don't see Kroger eliminating their own banner Ralphs in favor of Vons.

I also don't see Kroger eliminating Food 4 Less or converting it to another format (or vice versa), since Food 4 Less employees are under a different union contract, and any banner conversion with F4L would result in "closing" the existing store, thus resulting negative PR for Kroger.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote ClownLoach
by ClownLoach » April 24th, 2024, 7:14 pm

brendenmoney wrote: ↑April 24th, 2024, 4:14 pm
CalItalian wrote: ↑April 24th, 2024, 9:02 am
storewanderer wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2024, 11:42 pm


Some legitimate competitor seems like they should be able to show up and knock that Menifee Ralphs out. It is amazing how the growth in the area has saved that store.

We will see how Smart & Final impacts the Ralphs in Temecula. I just hope it+Stater remodel doesn't somehow push it to closure.
Smart & Final Extra! Temecula opened this morning.
It's a well designed but fairly basic store. They utilized space very well. In some ways, it feels like Stater Bros. inspired the design. The only area where it really differs from any other Smart & Final is a larger wine area. With a few local labels. They clearly aren't targeting business customers. Grand Opening ad, which is viewable online, is better than most markets I've seen in the last few years. Not a lot of customers for a grand opening morning. They are giving away products & gift cards today with a spin to win.
Also, not to be a party pooper, but there is enough conversation about the Temecula Smart & Final that a new thread for it could be started outside of the merger thread...
New thread started with my observation after spending the entire afternoon visiting everyone except Walmart.

The Albertsons would be the divestiture on that strip without question. Cheaply built Lucky-SavOn combo store, now next door to Aldi and across from Walmart, 2nd worst parking situation on the strip (Sprouts is worst), and very easily subdivided. Plus another Albertsons store right up Margarita Rd and a Vons. My guess is they would choose divesting both Vons branded stores as they're the two worst, but that means rebranding insanity for the 7 other Albertsons kept.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote HCal
by HCal » April 24th, 2024, 4:52 pm

brendenmoney wrote: ↑April 24th, 2024, 4:14 pm
I'm not sure if they intend on divesting any stores on this stretch in the now very unlikely scenario this merger goes through, but if they have a chance of having this merger going through, there is no doubt the FTC is going to require them to give up at least one store on this strip. Yes, a lot of competition exists on this stretch, but this is a scenario where there are two stores right next to each other, and one's gotta give. If no Ralphs are divested, then it would have to be the Albertsons.
With the amount of competition in the area, I don't see why FTC would require a divestiture. There are lots of other options, and no risk of a monopoly being formed.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote brendenmoney
by brendenmoney » April 24th, 2024, 4:14 pm

CalItalian wrote: ↑April 24th, 2024, 9:02 am
storewanderer wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2024, 11:42 pm
CalItalian wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2024, 6:26 am
Temecula Ralphs is not a busy store. Not in the way the Murrieta or Menifee Ralphs is. And it is way, way off I-15 in a heavy traffic corridor. It's 13.5 miles to Murrieta Ralphs which is a larger store. Menifee Ralphs has 12 self-checkout stations which even Murrieta doesn't have.
Some legitimate competitor seems like they should be able to show up and knock that Menifee Ralphs out. It is amazing how the growth in the area has saved that store.

We will see how Smart & Final impacts the Ralphs in Temecula. I just hope it+Stater remodel doesn't somehow push it to closure.
Smart & Final Extra! Temecula opened this morning.
It's a well designed but fairly basic store. They utilized space very well. In some ways, it feels like Stater Bros. inspired the design. The only area where it really differs from any other Smart & Final is a larger wine area. With a few local labels. They clearly aren't targeting business customers. Grand Opening ad, which is viewable online, is better than most markets I've seen in the last few years. Not a lot of customers for a grand opening morning. They are giving away products & gift cards today with a spin to win.
As much as I would hope this new Smart & Final wouldn't cause Ralphs to close, a lot of competition now exists on this stretch of Temecula Parkway, including the traditional operators, Albertsons, Ralphs, and Stater Bros, the latter just finishing up a major remodel. On top of this, there are also Aldi, Sprouts, and a Walmart Supercenter, leaving seven grocery operators on this stretch. Competition is good, but too much competition in one area is enough to push a store or two out, and I imagine we all know which two stores would most likely pull out, out of these seven.

Now, I visit this area very recently, and the Albertsons was doing fairly well, and Stater was really busy after its new remodel. After checking out Ralphs, I know it's not the most favorable decor, but at the very least it was a very clean and organized store, just not many customers patronizing it. And this was just a few days before Smart & Final opening. I don't think this new Smart & Final is very good news for this Ralphs, although Ralphs does have a pharmacy, which something Smart & Final doesn't have, so at the very least they have that over them.

Albertsons and Kroger did release a new divesture package, ruling out the possibility of any Ralphs divestures in California. I'm not sure if they intend on divesting any stores on this stretch in the now very unlikely scenario this merger goes through, but if they have a chance of having this merger going through, there is no doubt the FTC is going to require them to give up at least one store on this strip. Yes, a lot of competition exists on this stretch, but this is a scenario where there are two stores right next to each other, and one's gotta give. If no Ralphs are divested, then it would have to be the Albertsons.

Also, not to be a party pooper, but there is enough conversation about the Temecula Smart & Final that a new thread for it could be started outside of the merger thread...
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote CalItalian
by CalItalian » April 24th, 2024, 9:02 am

storewanderer wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2024, 11:42 pm
CalItalian wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2024, 6:26 am
ClownLoach wrote: ↑April 1st, 2024, 4:59 pm


The Ralphs pulls from a large area of people who prefer them to Albertsons or Stater. It's the only Ralphs around, the others are 10+ miles away. I know people in Fallbrook who drive to this Ralphs (they work in the area but prefer Ralphs over other chains). Remember there are 8 Albertsons/Vons between the Temecula and Murrieta Ralphs. In a few blocks on the Parkway you've got Ralphs, S&F, flagship Walmart Supercenter that somehow keeps looking even better each day since the remodel which is a miracle for them, Aldi, a large Albertsons that was built to be Lucky-SavOn combo store, and Stater Bros. A few thousand new luxury apartments going in up on Ynez a few miles from all of them so everyone will keep comping up. And the Ralphs is the first stop coming in from the desert communities up Hwy 79. I think if the merger had been successful the Ralphs would be retained and the Albertsons dumped on C&S if for no other reason than it would be exceptionally easy to close then subdivide into two or three box stores due to its shape and size.

This S&F is not even using all the space, and it was already a small Best Buy. They walled off the back third of the store or maybe even more looking in. They obviously have low expectations, and I expect it will split the business of the Murrieta store which has very little consumer traffic. It will most likely be geared to small businesses and not consumers. If the flagship Walmart remodel didn't do in the Ralphs then S&F won't either.

The Aldi is pretty popular out of the gate, but the one a short distance away on Rancho California is now a ghost town. It is poorly situated in the type of spot I'd expect to be a Walgreens. Again no real change of share, just a shifting of location. The Aldi is another space waster, they took a large furniture store and walled off the left and right quarters of the building but didn't configure them for subleasing. Two giant empty rooms.

If any other store is a threat to Ralphs, it's the Stater that is finishing up a 6 month long complete remodel taking it from a redecorated 90s era Albertsons convert into the latest SB prototype. The only department that wasn't torn down to the block wall was meats. Everything else has been rebuilt from floor to ceiling, I have to stop by and check on progress as they were finally painting and beginning graphics install. It looked like they were moving deli and bakery, and liquor had moved to the demolished old pharmacy area. It serves as a reminder of what a real remodel is, something we seldom see in SoCal these days.
Temecula Ralphs is not a busy store. Not in the way the Murrieta or Menifee Ralphs is. And it is way, way off I-15 in a heavy traffic corridor. It's 13.5 miles to Murrieta Ralphs which is a larger store. Menifee Ralphs has 12 self-checkout stations which even Murrieta doesn't have.
Some legitimate competitor seems like they should be able to show up and knock that Menifee Ralphs out. It is amazing how the growth in the area has saved that store.

We will see how Smart & Final impacts the Ralphs in Temecula. I just hope it+Stater remodel doesn't somehow push it to closure.
Smart & Final Extra! Temecula opened this morning.
It's a well designed but fairly basic store. They utilized space very well. In some ways, it feels like Stater Bros. inspired the design. The only area where it really differs from any other Smart & Final is a larger wine area. With a few local labels. They clearly aren't targeting business customers. Grand Opening ad, which is viewable online, is better than most markets I've seen in the last few years. Not a lot of customers for a grand opening morning. They are giving away products & gift cards today with a spin to win.
Re: Kroger-Albertsons Merger: California ImpactQuote storewanderer
by storewanderer » April 3rd, 2024, 11:42 pm

CalItalian wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2024, 6:26 am
ClownLoach wrote: ↑April 1st, 2024, 4:59 pm
storewanderer wrote: ↑March 16th, 2024, 11:49 pm


That is probably not great news for the Ralphs... even if Smart & Final only does $250k a week and $100k of that comes from Ralphs that is probably 15% of Ralphs volume.

If Kroger fixed pricing in California to get it more in line with surrounding states, it would be a non-issue.

Also a high quality perimeter and nice looking store would be a good way to fight Smart & Final being next door too. Oops on that remodel they just did downgrading store appearance...
The Ralphs pulls from a large area of people who prefer them to Albertsons or Stater. It's the only Ralphs around, the others are 10+ miles away. I know people in Fallbrook who drive to this Ralphs (they work in the area but prefer Ralphs over other chains). Remember there are 8 Albertsons/Vons between the Temecula and Murrieta Ralphs. In a few blocks on the Parkway you've got Ralphs, S&F, flagship Walmart Supercenter that somehow keeps looking even better each day since the remodel which is a miracle for them, Aldi, a large Albertsons that was built to be Lucky-SavOn combo store, and Stater Bros. A few thousand new luxury apartments going in up on Ynez a few miles from all of them so everyone will keep comping up. And the Ralphs is the first stop coming in from the desert communities up Hwy 79. I think if the merger had been successful the Ralphs would be retained and the Albertsons dumped on C&S if for no other reason than it would be exceptionally easy to close then subdivide into two or three box stores due to its shape and size.

This S&F is not even using all the space, and it was already a small Best Buy. They walled off the back third of the store or maybe even more looking in. They obviously have low expectations, and I expect it will split the business of the Murrieta store which has very little consumer traffic. It will most likely be geared to small businesses and not consumers. If the flagship Walmart remodel didn't do in the Ralphs then S&F won't either.

The Aldi is pretty popular out of the gate, but the one a short distance away on Rancho California is now a ghost town. It is poorly situated in the type of spot I'd expect to be a Walgreens. Again no real change of share, just a shifting of location. The Aldi is another space waster, they took a large furniture store and walled off the left and right quarters of the building but didn't configure them for subleasing. Two giant empty rooms.

If any other store is a threat to Ralphs, it's the Stater that is finishing up a 6 month long complete remodel taking it from a redecorated 90s era Albertsons convert into the latest SB prototype. The only department that wasn't torn down to the block wall was meats. Everything else has been rebuilt from floor to ceiling, I have to stop by and check on progress as they were finally painting and beginning graphics install. It looked like they were moving deli and bakery, and liquor had moved to the demolished old pharmacy area. It serves as a reminder of what a real remodel is, something we seldom see in SoCal these days.
Temecula Ralphs is not a busy store. Not in the way the Murrieta or Menifee Ralphs is. And it is way, way off I-15 in a heavy traffic corridor. It's 13.5 miles to Murrieta Ralphs which is a larger store. Menifee Ralphs has 12 self-checkout stations which even Murrieta doesn't have.
Some legitimate competitor seems like they should be able to show up and knock that Menifee Ralphs out. It is amazing how the growth in the area has saved that store.

We will see how Smart & Final impacts the Ralphs in Temecula. I just hope it+Stater remodel doesn't somehow push it to closure.
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I would then keep the Vons banner for the central coast and Kern county stores.

[ClownLoach]

I would then keep the Vons banner for the central coast and Kern county stores.

Problem is ACI has neglected the Vons banner for so long that in the areas where they primarily fly Albertsons the reputation for Vons is very bad. Here for example there are only 2 Ralphs both in fringe areas and anything central is ACI. Albertsons has 5 premier class stores in outstanding condition, amongst the best I've seen. One somewhat marginal 1990s build Albertsons which could be spruced up, I think it is divest bait as it's slow and near a nice busy Ralphs, they would have to give up that or a much better Albertsons up the freeway that arguably has much more competition. One Vons is an Albertsons divest that they probably didn't want back and it is marginally acceptable on the best day. And one Vons is a toilet bowl that needs to be flushed out of the chain. And the other two big growing markets where Albertsons outnumbers and outperforms Vons have the same problem, poor reputation for Vons and stellar reputation for Albertsons. The customer here will perceive their Albertsons is being "lowered down" to a Vons, or if changed to Ralphs it will look like a near total monopoly. Again no matter what they are going to see banners change on at least a third of their combined stores in SoCal which is going to be a huge win for Stater Bros, Sprouts, Costco, Sam's, Walmart, Target, Trader Joe's, you name it. And the loser will be Kroger no matter what option they use if they change the name on stores they're going to be controlling after they merge, with the only exception being where they can upgrade a Fresh Fare to the Pavilions concept.

And by the way, someone had mentioned that ACI could not possibly change remodel plans based on the merger or they would get in trouble. I disagree and believe they actually have done this already, and the example is the banner change on the Long Beach Pavilions. Apparently the reason for the long delay in changing the banner is that the store was being rebranded from Pavilions to Albertsons, not Vons. They changed this after the remodel had begun and decided to make it a Vons instead, and this was allegedly "because the name has more appeal in the area" which is suspicious at best since the store is bombed with negative reviews complaining it's being downgraded to a "lousy Vons". The C&S deal was already surely in the works at that time, and there is a Vons nearby that is an absolute "must divest true overlap" across the street from a busier Ralphs. So they obviously knew even then that if they put a Albertsons banner on that store they would have to change it again to either Ralphs or Vons potentially within months, and at the same time the nearby Vons would change to Albertsons thereby "flip flopping" the stores multiple times in a year.

I question the source but it makes a lot of sense as to why the store was remodeled but sat for months before officially changing the brand as they would have had to restart the signage permitting process to use the Vons sign instead of Albertsons (and permits take forever in Long Beach).

https://longbeach4d.blogspot.com/2023/0 ... w.html?m=1

[storewanderer]

I would then keep the Vons banner for the central coast and Kern county stores.

I wouldn't convert anything to the Vons banner anywhere unless it was a complete trash dump of a store. I'd use Ralphs there and just fix Ralphs. I'd convert the very best stores to Pavilions.

[storewanderer]

I question the source but it makes a lot of sense as to why the store was remodeled but sat for months before officially changing the brand as they would have had to restart the signage permitting process to use the Vons sign instead of Albertsons (and permits take forever in Long Beach).

https://longbeach4d.blogspot.com/2023/0 ... w.html?m=1

We've seen a lot of Pavilions "downgrade" to Vons over the years, then eventually they seem to close down. Or the worst was Moreno Valley or wherever where the store went Pavilions-Vons-Pak N Save-Closed. Ouch. But the whole downgrade Pavilions to Vons thing, I think is due to the customers over the year perceiving Pavilions as "a better Vons." It would be interesting to see what customer perception would be on a Pavilions converting to the Albertsons banner. Would it also be perceived as a downgrade? We may never know because I don't see it happening.

[reymann]

The Ralphs banner is going to need a lot of work in those areas especially Bakersfield. If Save Mart was in better shape, they could have been considering expansion to those areas. Stater Bros should consider expanding into the Bakersfield area should the Ralphs banner ends up driving away customers.

[veteran+]

The Vons at Mission Hills in San Diego is a beautiful store and well run.

I suspect that store could name change to Pavilions seemlessly.

[ClownLoach]

The Vons at Mission Hills in San Diego is a beautiful store and well run.

I suspect that store could name change to Pavilions seemlessly.

What do you think of the very interesting Vons at Liberty Public Market? Concerned that could land in the hands of C&S. Not sure they could wrap their heads around the concept.

[veteran+]

The Vons at Mission Hills in San Diego is a beautiful store and well run.

I suspect that store could name change to Pavilions seemlessly.

What do you think of the very interesting Vons at Liberty Public Market? Concerned that could land in the hands of C&S. Not sure they could wrap their heads around the concept.

That's a cool store!

C&S would destroy it though I believe Vons could do more with it.

[HCal]

I question the source but it makes a lot of sense as to why the store was remodeled but sat for months before officially changing the brand as they would have had to restart the signage permitting process to use the Vons sign instead of Albertsons (and permits take forever in Long Beach).

https://longbeach4d.blogspot.com/2023/0 ... w.html?m=1

We've seen a lot of Pavilions "downgrade" to Vons over the years, then eventually they seem to close down. Or the worst was Moreno Valley or wherever where the store went Pavilions-Vons-Pak N Save-Closed. Ouch. But the whole downgrade Pavilions to Vons thing, I think is due to the customers over the year perceiving Pavilions as "a better Vons." It would be interesting to see what customer perception would be on a Pavilions converting to the Albertsons banner. Would it also be perceived as a downgrade? We may never know because I don't see it happening.

I don't see it happening either, but my guess is that it would be perceived as a downgrade. Pavilions is a premium brand, while Vons and Albertsons are seen as run-of-the-mill supermarket brands. Many people still don't know that Vons and Albertsons are the same company, so Pavilions -> Vons might be seen as a "downgrade" while Pavilions -> Albertsons might be seen as a new store.