Kroger closing in The Woodlands, TX

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Re: Kroger closing in The Woodlands, TX

Post by storewanderer »

grocerywatcher wrote: March 10th, 2025, 7:55 am
storewanderer wrote: March 9th, 2025, 11:54 pm
pseudo3d wrote: March 9th, 2025, 5:29 pm

Since 2015? About 10-12 I'd say, though a few of those were replacement stores, at least +9 in net total.
Since 2018? About 8 (this includes replacement stores). Add the two Joe V's stores, and you've still got a solid +5 lead where Kroger has done NOTHING.

If Kroger kept building stores at a pace to H-E-B, they'd likely still hold #1 (or #2 behind Walmart) today. While I've stated that the divestment plan looked like it was clearly aimed for C&S to flip the two Houston-area stores they would've gotten to H-E-B (the only two areas where H-E-B had pulled out previously), the rest of the stores would've gone to Kroger unscathed. How effective would this be is unknown since all but a few of the divested stores are close to Kroger stores, and these Kroger stores are (generally) better locations (larger, better locations, etc.), and they don't go where H-E-B went, to the suburbs.



With Albertsons as a whole having issues, it's not hard to see that Randalls wasn't giving their best when they closed those stores, there just isn't enough grocers to fill the void, and the barrier of entry to new businesses these days (especially large ones) is way too high.

If you look at retail bankruptcies that lead to "too much retail space" stories, there were almost no stores that were just victims of circumstance, all of them had major issues that drove away customers over time. It's not that there's no market for 200k+ square feet department stores and "category killer" boxes but these won't come to life in a vacuum.

Without derailing the topic further, the reason THIS Kroger is closing is indicative of two reasons:
1) Kroger has soft-given up on the Houston area as Safeway did YEARS earlier and is letting leases expire.
2) The landlord has a better idea for the space.
3) Kroger had the same idea that Randalls did back five years ago, that stores in The Woodlands for whatever reason were more trouble than they were worth and throwing them under the bus was vital to the market's survival.
I don't want to go into speculation but wouldn't it be somewhat humorous if Randalls took over this space Kroger is closing to return to the area? How is the store positioned in comparison to the stores they closed? I mean, Randalls is doing those (cheap repaint of Lifestyle fixtures) remodels there... they aren't zeroed out on capex...

I do think it is harsh to say Kroger has soft given up on the market. I don't really see that. There are so many markets Kroger hasn't built a new store in 20 years at this point out west... I hate to think they've soft given up on all of those markets (one being mine).

What it kind of looks like is both parties Kroger and HEB may have built too many new stores around the same time period and these stores need time to mature and turn more profitable. But that should be a 3-5 year time period.

Back to this closing Kroger in The Woodlands it is evident they are not interested in this store and have not been for some time. The store interior decor is a cheap application of that package and is greater than 10 years old. The flooring throughout the store appears to be the original flooring. Refrigeration mostly looks original. While these are quite nice stores, for whatever reason, this one seems like one they just didn't have much interest in and never gave it much capex.
A couple other things to note, to counter some of the doom & gloom about Kroger's future in Houston:

1. Kroger is still comfortably in 1st place terms of store count (100+ stores). Houston is also Kroger's largest division.

Even H-E-B and Walmart only have ~80 to
~70 stores each in the region. So realistically, how many more stores does Kroger *NEED* to have?

Yes, Kroger is building new stores in DFW, but that region currently has a somewhat lower store count and a bit more slack with 800K more people plus a somewhat faster growth rate (per US Census CSA numbers).

2. Kroger recently selected the Houston market to pilot new concepts such as Hispanic-type format as well as an in-store ghost kitchen.

EDIT: I also don't buy into the theory that it was the landlord's decision to boot Kroger with this Woodlands store that's set to close. Chain grocers such as Kroger are reliable long-term tenants that consistently drive a ton of traffic for other businesses in these low-profile shopping centers. And as implied in an earlier post, if anything, landlords tend to struggle when it comes to backfilling these abandoned grocery stores with quality tenants in neighborhood strip malls. You see this when driving around older suburban areas across the country where these spaces are now occupied by flea markets, government offices, or subdivided to serve smaller tenants (if not vacant).
The thing is when you look at that 100 stores Kroger has in the Houston market, how many low volume (under $500k per week by Kroger standards) stores are there? I suspect very few. My guess is multiple former Albertsons locations fit that profile, along with a handfull of still open old stores like the former Family Center in Baytown. Those are the stores sometimes with closed or scaled back perimeter departments.

HEB is obviously going to be more productive in most if not all cases from a volume perspective, but as far as chain conventional stores go, Kroger still pulls well above average volumes and I suspect comes close to them in multiple locations in volume.

So I don't think it is all doom and gloom for Kroger around Houston. I was not overly impressed with what I saw of the stores there, I am not used to seeing things like scaled back perimeters in Kroger chains, so some of that was somewhat of a shock for me. However overall their pricing seemed okay and execution seemed okay, and all stores I visited had moderate traffic at the worst.

They are lucky in Houston all they deal with is HEB and those smaller chains like Food Town. Ignoring Wal Mart. Up in Dallas they are dealing with significantly more competition.
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Re: Kroger closing in The Woodlands, TX

Post by pseudo3d »

johnintx wrote: March 10th, 2025, 8:08 pm
pseudo3d wrote: March 9th, 2025, 5:29 pm Without derailing the topic further, the reason THIS Kroger is closing is indicative of 3 possible reasons:
1) Kroger has soft-given up on the Houston area as Safeway did YEARS earlier and is letting leases expire.
Kroger hasn't given up on Houston. My local Kroger ("Old Kingwood") just started its second remodel in the last 10 years. The first was to compete with a new HEB. Now, Trader Joe's and Sprouts are moving in. In this time period, HEB flooded during Harvey (and reopened) and a Randalls across the street closed. Meanwhile, Kroger keeps plugging along serving a different set of neighborhoods. The remodel started last month. The've pulled up the center store floors for now.

Kroger isn't going anywhere.
Randalls reopened within a few weeks before H-E-B. Of course, it got hit in the 2020 closing round, but that was almost two and a half years later.
HoustonRetail wrote: March 10th, 2025, 8:52 pmKroger is in too deep in Houston to just give up, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of a pullback from Kroger than a push forward, at least for the next few years. I think some of it concerns HEB, eg, abandoning the new Pearland store in 2018. However, some of it is trying to recover from the failed merger. The real question, though, is how long will that last? Lots of development is occurring on the West side of town, and HEB is quickly catching up to the progress Kroger made years ago. If they stay dormant for too long, they could lose their lead in new developments around Fulshear, Austin Point, etc...
I think Kroger could bounce back in Houston if they redirected their resources from other projects like Ocado, Mariano's, and other distractions while trying to tailor their advertising to the Houston market. No one wants to hear "fresher than fresh" nonsense; if they advertised full-service departments and a better selection to H-E-B than they could really get back on their feet.
storewanderer wrote: March 11th, 2025, 12:46 am The thing is when you look at that 100 stores Kroger has in the Houston market, how many low volume (under $500k per week by Kroger standards) stores are there? I suspect very few. My guess is multiple former Albertsons locations fit that profile, along with a handfull of still open old stores like the former Family Center in Baytown. Those are the stores sometimes with closed or scaled back perimeter departments.

HEB is obviously going to be more productive in most if not all cases from a volume perspective, but as far as chain conventional stores go, Kroger still pulls well above average volumes and I suspect comes close to them in multiple locations in volume.

So I don't think it is all doom and gloom for Kroger around Houston. I was not overly impressed with what I saw of the stores there, I am not used to seeing things like scaled back perimeters in Kroger chains, so some of that was somewhat of a shock for me. However overall their pricing seemed okay and execution seemed okay, and all stores I visited had moderate traffic at the worst.

They are lucky in Houston all they deal with is HEB and those smaller chains like Food Town. Ignoring Wal Mart. Up in Dallas they are dealing with significantly more competition.
The Albertsons stores were a godsend for Kroger. They weren't bad stores for Albertsons (they were dealing with other issues) and Kroger selected all the right locations. If I recall, all of them (except for a weirdly-located one that they later reopened and closed again within the course of a few years) remain open today (or have been replaced with Marketplace stores).

The Signature store program had saved the division and propelled Kroger back up to a #1 status but the Albertsons purchase accelerated Kroger's phaseout of the old Greenhouse stores and allowed them to keep that status through the rest of the 2000s. In the late 2000s H-E-B started building full-line stores in the Inner Loop (where Kroger ruled, neither Albertsons or Randalls made much progress there) and coupled with faster development in the suburbs, turned the tide against Kroger.

I disagree with the fact that H-E-B is doing well in every store, there are a few stores that are probably marginal or losers between lower volume + shrink; which isn't uncommon...Kmart used to have quite a number of bad stores to keep market share but that only pays off when you have a bunch of really good stores to compensate (which H-E-B does, Kmart not so much).
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Re: Kroger closing in The Woodlands, TX

Post by storewanderer »

pseudo3d wrote: March 11th, 2025, 6:43 am
johnintx wrote: March 10th, 2025, 8:08 pm
pseudo3d wrote: March 9th, 2025, 5:29 pm Without derailing the topic further, the reason THIS Kroger is closing is indicative of 3 possible reasons:
1) Kroger has soft-given up on the Houston area as Safeway did YEARS earlier and is letting leases expire.
Kroger hasn't given up on Houston. My local Kroger ("Old Kingwood") just started its second remodel in the last 10 years. The first was to compete with a new HEB. Now, Trader Joe's and Sprouts are moving in. In this time period, HEB flooded during Harvey (and reopened) and a Randalls across the street closed. Meanwhile, Kroger keeps plugging along serving a different set of neighborhoods. The remodel started last month. The've pulled up the center store floors for now.

Kroger isn't going anywhere.
Randalls reopened within a few weeks before H-E-B. Of course, it got hit in the 2020 closing round, but that was almost two and a half years later.
HoustonRetail wrote: March 10th, 2025, 8:52 pmKroger is in too deep in Houston to just give up, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of a pullback from Kroger than a push forward, at least for the next few years. I think some of it concerns HEB, eg, abandoning the new Pearland store in 2018. However, some of it is trying to recover from the failed merger. The real question, though, is how long will that last? Lots of development is occurring on the West side of town, and HEB is quickly catching up to the progress Kroger made years ago. If they stay dormant for too long, they could lose their lead in new developments around Fulshear, Austin Point, etc...
I think Kroger could bounce back in Houston if they redirected their resources from other projects like Ocado, Mariano's, and other distractions while trying to tailor their advertising to the Houston market. No one wants to hear "fresher than fresh" nonsense; if they advertised full-service departments and a better selection to H-E-B than they could really get back on their feet.
storewanderer wrote: March 11th, 2025, 12:46 am The thing is when you look at that 100 stores Kroger has in the Houston market, how many low volume (under $500k per week by Kroger standards) stores are there? I suspect very few. My guess is multiple former Albertsons locations fit that profile, along with a handfull of still open old stores like the former Family Center in Baytown. Those are the stores sometimes with closed or scaled back perimeter departments.

HEB is obviously going to be more productive in most if not all cases from a volume perspective, but as far as chain conventional stores go, Kroger still pulls well above average volumes and I suspect comes close to them in multiple locations in volume.

So I don't think it is all doom and gloom for Kroger around Houston. I was not overly impressed with what I saw of the stores there, I am not used to seeing things like scaled back perimeters in Kroger chains, so some of that was somewhat of a shock for me. However overall their pricing seemed okay and execution seemed okay, and all stores I visited had moderate traffic at the worst.

They are lucky in Houston all they deal with is HEB and those smaller chains like Food Town. Ignoring Wal Mart. Up in Dallas they are dealing with significantly more competition.
The Albertsons stores were a godsend for Kroger. They weren't bad stores for Albertsons (they were dealing with other issues) and Kroger selected all the right locations. If I recall, all of them (except for a weirdly-located one that they later reopened and closed again within the course of a few years) remain open today (or have been replaced with Marketplace stores).

The Signature store program had saved the division and propelled Kroger back up to a #1 status but the Albertsons purchase accelerated Kroger's phaseout of the old Greenhouse stores and allowed them to keep that status through the rest of the 2000s. In the late 2000s H-E-B started building full-line stores in the Inner Loop (where Kroger ruled, neither Albertsons or Randalls made much progress there) and coupled with faster development in the suburbs, turned the tide against Kroger.

I disagree with the fact that H-E-B is doing well in every store, there are a few stores that are probably marginal or losers between lower volume + shrink; which isn't uncommon...Kmart used to have quite a number of bad stores to keep market share but that only pays off when you have a bunch of really good stores to compensate (which H-E-B does, Kmart not so much).
I think Kroger can compete with HEB through different promotional formats, somewhat different of a perimeter operation (even if not as good of quality, it is more "conventional" in what it has and how it works; HEB perimeter operations are a bit different, lacking a lot of service counters etc.), and a different private label program. I obviously think HEB rather heavily rolls over Kroger but it does not completely flatten it. If I lived in the area I would shop at both chains and it would be interesting to see where I'd end up buying more because I think I'd spread purchases between the two pretty evenly. There is no question that Kroger is in the best position to compete with HEB of pretty much any chain and the Marketplace format is a big help even if that is a relatively low number of stores.

Taking it a step further if the Albertsons locations have been good for Kroger, I wonder why they have not taken any Randalls locations that have closed. Do you think this is because some got placed with El Rancho, or is it that Kroger was already present in those areas? And I would have to agree with you there- had Kroger not gotten those Albertsons locations, where would they be in the market and what would their store count be? So I agree, it was a good thing they got what they got of those.

I guess I don't see the doom and gloom for Kroger in Houston. I feel like they are in a very solid position. Even if HEB is beating them in the usual HEB manner which is a big beating, Kroger is still a very strong player in the market.

This one store closure- who knows what the circumstances are. But we will know shortly once we see what happens to the space when Kroger vacates it. And I do not expect a string of closures to occur.
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Re: Kroger closing in The Woodlands, TX

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: March 12th, 2025, 12:35 am
pseudo3d wrote: March 11th, 2025, 6:43 am
johnintx wrote: March 10th, 2025, 8:08 pm

Kroger hasn't given up on Houston. My local Kroger ("Old Kingwood") just started its second remodel in the last 10 years. The first was to compete with a new HEB. Now, Trader Joe's and Sprouts are moving in. In this time period, HEB flooded during Harvey (and reopened) and a Randalls across the street closed. Meanwhile, Kroger keeps plugging along serving a different set of neighborhoods. The remodel started last month. The've pulled up the center store floors for now.

Kroger isn't going anywhere.
Randalls reopened within a few weeks before H-E-B. Of course, it got hit in the 2020 closing round, but that was almost two and a half years later.
HoustonRetail wrote: March 10th, 2025, 8:52 pmKroger is in too deep in Houston to just give up, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of a pullback from Kroger than a push forward, at least for the next few years. I think some of it concerns HEB, eg, abandoning the new Pearland store in 2018. However, some of it is trying to recover from the failed merger. The real question, though, is how long will that last? Lots of development is occurring on the West side of town, and HEB is quickly catching up to the progress Kroger made years ago. If they stay dormant for too long, they could lose their lead in new developments around Fulshear, Austin Point, etc...
I think Kroger could bounce back in Houston if they redirected their resources from other projects like Ocado, Mariano's, and other distractions while trying to tailor their advertising to the Houston market. No one wants to hear "fresher than fresh" nonsense; if they advertised full-service departments and a better selection to H-E-B than they could really get back on their feet.
storewanderer wrote: March 11th, 2025, 12:46 am The thing is when you look at that 100 stores Kroger has in the Houston market, how many low volume (under $500k per week by Kroger standards) stores are there? I suspect very few. My guess is multiple former Albertsons locations fit that profile, along with a handfull of still open old stores like the former Family Center in Baytown. Those are the stores sometimes with closed or scaled back perimeter departments.

HEB is obviously going to be more productive in most if not all cases from a volume perspective, but as far as chain conventional stores go, Kroger still pulls well above average volumes and I suspect comes close to them in multiple locations in volume.

So I don't think it is all doom and gloom for Kroger around Houston. I was not overly impressed with what I saw of the stores there, I am not used to seeing things like scaled back perimeters in Kroger chains, so some of that was somewhat of a shock for me. However overall their pricing seemed okay and execution seemed okay, and all stores I visited had moderate traffic at the worst.

They are lucky in Houston all they deal with is HEB and those smaller chains like Food Town. Ignoring Wal Mart. Up in Dallas they are dealing with significantly more competition.
The Albertsons stores were a godsend for Kroger. They weren't bad stores for Albertsons (they were dealing with other issues) and Kroger selected all the right locations. If I recall, all of them (except for a weirdly-located one that they later reopened and closed again within the course of a few years) remain open today (or have been replaced with Marketplace stores).

The Signature store program had saved the division and propelled Kroger back up to a #1 status but the Albertsons purchase accelerated Kroger's phaseout of the old Greenhouse stores and allowed them to keep that status through the rest of the 2000s. In the late 2000s H-E-B started building full-line stores in the Inner Loop (where Kroger ruled, neither Albertsons or Randalls made much progress there) and coupled with faster development in the suburbs, turned the tide against Kroger.

I disagree with the fact that H-E-B is doing well in every store, there are a few stores that are probably marginal or losers between lower volume + shrink; which isn't uncommon...Kmart used to have quite a number of bad stores to keep market share but that only pays off when you have a bunch of really good stores to compensate (which H-E-B does, Kmart not so much).
Taking it a step further if the Albertsons locations have been good for Kroger, I wonder why they have not taken any Randalls locations that have closed. Do you think this is because some got placed with El Rancho, or is it that Kroger was already present in those areas? And I would have to agree with you there- had Kroger not gotten those Albertsons locations, where would they be in the market and what would their store count be? So I agree, it was a good thing they got what they got of those.
Kroger has good locations near almost of the Randalls locations now, maybe better ones. That wasn't the case in 2002.

There are rumors of another store closure for Kroger in Houston. I'm not at liberty to say but it's in a good neighborhood and was one of my favorites if only because how convenient it was. (It wasn't particularly large but not small, either).
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Re: Kroger closing in The Woodlands, TX

Post by storewanderer »

So a 45k square foot type of store? I feel like that is borderline too small for Kroger. Unfortunately they are going to give about the best center store mix and pricing of anyone operating stores of that size today so a closure will not just reopen and be "as good" when Food Town or similar assumes the building.

Also guessing this store was a great place to score Kroger markdowns.
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