ClownLoach wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 3:28 pm
I still expect to see more of the more upscale Vons and Albertsons with top wine and liquor sales converted to Pavilions format in the future.
That's assuming the Kroger merger doesn't happen. I think Calabasas, Rancho Mirage, Irvine (Quail Hill), and San Clemente (Plaza Pacifica) Albertsons stores would be great for the Pavilions format.
I think Vons stores in Carlsbad (Rancho Santa Fe, and the one across from Carlsbad Mall), Encinitas (Santa Fe), Del Mar, San Diego (Liberty Station), Pacific Palisades, Studio City, Encino, Agoura Hills, and Thousand Oaks would be good Pavilions conversions.
Calabasas is a very special Albertsons- was always shown in Albertsons TV ads. It definitely had the Jewel interior, and it was the flagship Albertsons until the Market Street near Boise opened.
storewanderer wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 8:13 pm
I think the musical chairs of Albertsons in that neighborhood is not necessarily due to failure. It is more due to circumstance (mergers and divests). Stater is doing VERY well there.
I expect the Vons there to be converted to Ralphs assuming the Kroger merger is completed.
Calabasas is a beautiful store that definitely should be converted to Pavilions. The Vons on Rancho Santa Fe (the newer one in La Costa Town Square) was already planned to convert to Pavilions pre-covid.
Do you mean this soon-to-be Long Beach Vons would convert to Ralphs banner?
ClownLoach wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 10:01 pm
Calabasas is a beautiful store that definitely should be converted to Pavilions. Do you mean this soon-to-be Long Beach Vons would convert to Ralphs banner?
Yes, I expect this Long Beach Vons to be a Ralphs as there are no Ralphs nearby to divest.
Stater Long Beach was non existent there until the strike. I wasn't even sure if they would stay open as their first couple of years they maintained the blue and gray Albertsons decor and had absolutely no customers. I mean 5pm prime time nobody in line. They struck gold with the strike. Food4Less had already closed and was a low end IGA which would eventually become a Fresh and Easy. Then the other stores around it all were on strike (Pavilions, Albertsons, Ralphs). Suddenly they were the only conventional grocery store open on the entire Eastern side of Long Beach. This may be the single best example where they would go from "zero to hero" since they didn't have any presence in town previously and nobody had heard of them.
I'm surprised there were ANY IGA stores in the LA basin.
It was a old format Food4Less where all the signage was only hanging yellow banners. Ultra low end and obviously not right for the neighborhood. It closed and became an independent called Spring Farms IGA. They did absolutely nothing to remodel the store and it looked, felt, and smelled (!!!) like the Food4Less that preceded it. Trying to sell premium organic produce with F4L merchandising and displays didn't work well, no services to speak of like a deli, bakery or service meat, and all IGA house brands center store. I don't think it lasted more than a couple of years, but I can verify it absolutely was an IGA.
It currently is split between a Grocery Outlet and a Dollar Tree.
It is a very heavy Monday-Friday morning and afternoon store, as you see in traditional communities where there is a stay at home parent. The large square footage and wide aisles help this store with wear and tear. Also it got a full remodel from old Pavilions decor (white walls/purple red stripe) to "Pavilions Lifestyle" with the arched signs and the nice sponge painted walls. Hence the mint condition appearance. If it wasn't performing then it wouldn't have received two remodels in a time frame where most Pavilions even in richer areas only got one.
Stater Long Beach was non existent there until the strike. I wasn't even sure if they would stay open as their first couple of years...
As far as Albertsons goes - yes this is an area where they upset the customers and mismanaged their brand severely.
Interesting. I noticed the tiles behind the perimeter departments in Long Beach Pavilions appeared to be from that alternative Pavilions Lifestyle interior and I was curious why it had the later Lifestyle decor on the walls. I wonder if they were possibly considering converting that to a Vons before then didn't go through with it for some reason. It is odd it got two remodels so it must have done okay to get them.
I think the situation you describe with Stater in Long Beach describes the situation for most of the divested stores Stater bought...
I didn't realize Albertsons had screwed up so badly with that former Lucky. I just assumed it was a solid store since it had received renovations by Supervalu and the divest to Haggen was since it was the smaller facility.
It is a very heavy Monday-Friday morning and afternoon store, as you see in traditional communities where there is a stay at home parent. The large square footage and wide aisles help this store with wear and tear. Also it got a full remodel from old Pavilions decor (white walls/purple red stripe) to "Pavilions Lifestyle" with the arched signs and the nice sponge painted walls. Hence the mint condition appearance. If it wasn't performing then it wouldn't have received two remodels in a time frame where most Pavilions even in richer areas only got one.
Stater Long Beach was non existent there until the strike. I wasn't even sure if they would stay open as their first couple of years...
As far as Albertsons goes - yes this is an area where they upset the customers and mismanaged their brand severely.
Interesting. I noticed the tiles behind the perimeter departments in Long Beach Pavilions appeared to be from that alternative Pavilions Lifestyle interior and I was curious why it had the later Lifestyle decor on the walls. I wonder if they were possibly considering converting that to a Vons before then didn't go through with it for some reason. It is odd it got two remodels so it must have done okay to get them.
I think the situation you describe with Stater in Long Beach describes the situation for most of the divested stores Stater bought...
I didn't realize Albertsons had screwed up so badly with that former Lucky. I just assumed it was a solid store since it had received renovations by Supervalu and the divest to Haggen was since it was the smaller facility.
The Pavilions was remodeled to regular Safeway lifestyle around the same time as the Seal Beach new store opened. This may have also been around the same time the Ralphs was expanded and Stater finally remodeled to their own layout and decor. Probably a reactionary remodel to prevent sales loss and celebrate a grand reopening even though it was just a new sign package. Seal Beach was a standard Safeway lifestyle interior and layout from day one of the new store (old one was a tiny weird building that was demolished). It was recently remodeled to the new Pavilions decor although it didn't get much work aside from that sign package inside.
That Lucky was always very busy. It always had every register open whenever I was there. The freak tornado tore the roof off and collapsed the front half of the interior. That was rebuilt very quickly due to the importance of the store. Albertsons did everything wrong there. They should have fired whoever they used as an architect for that remodel.
veteran+ wrote: ↑February 21st, 2023, 1:18 pm
Would anyone know the total square footage of this store?
At least 60,000 Sq ft. I think this is a factor in deciding if they will remodel as Pavilions vs converting to Vons. These oversized stores took a very long time to remodel in Mission Viejo, Rancho Santa Margarita etc. In this very competitive spot they really can't afford to have the store torn up for 6+ months, especially when the net result is a reduction of GM and health/pharmacy items to expand liquor to a ridiculous extreme. Makes sense to do a lighter remodel and brand as Vons. This is a solid upper middle class market - but not high end enough to sell full cart loads of high end spirits or need a wine sommelier and wine cellar. Again that's really the only thing that differentiates Pavilions from Vons aside from the new decor package. I've seen plenty of Albertsons and Vons with all the other features known to Pavilions (higher end service meat/seafood and expanded organics). The liquor is the only real differentiator now.
I still expect to see more of the more upscale Vons and Albertsons with top wine and liquor sales converted to Pavilions format in the future.
What a waste of a large store like that!
For that area, I believe it should be more of a high end presentation. The name Vons does not conjure that.
In my area there is an obvious difference between Pavilions and Vons. Albertsons lacks any identity for anything.
Funny thought, but if this is possibly a clue into their strategy around protecting the business against divestitures in the post merger operations I wonder if we will see additional banner changes. If their intent is not to rebrand all SoCal to Ralphs then the Long Beach project makes sense as the Vons nearby will definitely be a required divest. In the illusion of competition and maintaining two brands (Ralphs and Vons) the "Vons shopper" would see this newly minted Vons a mile down the road and move their business there. And since the Vons which definitely will divest doesn't attract as high end of a customer the Pavilions concept will not work out in attracting them to move there, which means they might stay in place with whoever acquires the divested Vons. It is in their best interest to figure out ways ahead of time to move customers to the "go forward stores" and ensure they don't stay at the stores that get sold or spun off. They are not stupid and again unless they are going to do a nationwide banner change to Kroger at merger close they are better off maintaining the multi-banner strategy in SoCal especially after seeing the damage of their last merger and how quickly customers were displeased when their local store changed hands. There are distinct differences between the Kroger and Albertsons formats which means customers will pick a side by personal preference. Example Ralphs is known for jamming aisles end to end with minimal space at back of store and produce/deli/bakery shoved to front corners, while Albertsons formats "frame" center store with wider walkways around the perimeter for easier traffic flow. Some customers may have a format preference and Kroger would do best to maintain that choice even if they change pricing, promotions and house brands. I'm sure they are already working together and have made their decisions on banners internally. No reason to change a banner now if it is likely to change again soon unless it's part of a larger strategy around the merger.
If the decision was to keep the Vons name in SoCal because buyers are demanding the local exclusive licensing of the Albertsons banner (which Save Mart folks probably would ask for) then I think we could start seeing a bunch of banner changes between the two names well before the merger closes, if it ever does. Good example is that odd situation in Murrieta where they would want to make a token divest of the Vons across the street from the busier, nicer Albertsons. Do they swap banners at this intersection? It's obvious the grungy Vons store with the white painted Lifestyle 1.0 is not being kept. Do we see a wholesale change of South Orange County and Riverside County where the Vons name has nearly disappeared?
Now that we know from news reports that Save Mart is definitely involved and the lead acquirer of Albertsons/Safeway stores to advance the merger I'm sure the rest of the strategy is going to kick in. Clearly the Safeway folks made decisions in advance around not helping Haggen as evidenced by the fact that they didn't offer the needed sales history and other local data for the stores (and Haggen was too stupid to require it anyway). Save Mart will be ready to compete on day one and won't accept the kind of deals Haggen did. If Kroger and Albertsons aren't already advancing an agenda to protect against the new competitor they're required to build up with stores then they ensure they don't get the maximum potential of the merger. Starting an effort to retain all customers with the new Kroger on day one of a combined company is frankly too late. I think we are seeing the beginning of the strategy emerge around potentially licensing the Albertsons nameplate in SoCal to Save Mart.
ClownLoach wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2023, 8:05 am
Funny thought, but if this is possibly a clue into their strategy around protecting the business against divestitures in the post merger operations I wonder if we will see additional banner changes. If their intent is not to rebrand all SoCal to Ralphs then the Long Beach project makes sense as the Vons nearby will definitely be a required divest. In the illusion of competition and maintaining two brands (Ralphs and Vons) the "Vons shopper" would see this newly minted Vons a mile down the road and move their business there. And since the Vons which definitely will divest doesn't attract as high end of a customer the Pavilions concept will not work out in attracting them to move there, which means they might stay in place with whoever acquires the divested Vons. It is in their best interest to figure out ways ahead of time to move customers to the "go forward stores" and ensure they don't stay at the stores that get sold or spun off. They are not stupid and again unless they are going to do a nationwide banner change to Kroger at merger close they are better off maintaining the multi-banner strategy in SoCal especially after seeing the damage of their last merger and how quickly customers were displeased when their local store changed hands. There are distinct differences between the Kroger and Albertsons formats which means customers will pick a side by personal preference. Example Ralphs is known for jamming aisles end to end with minimal space at back of store and produce/deli/bakery shoved to front corners, while Albertsons formats "frame" center store with wider walkways around the perimeter for easier traffic flow. Some customers may have a format preference and Kroger would do best to maintain that choice even if they change pricing, promotions and house brands. I'm sure they are already working together and have made their decisions on banners internally. No reason to change a banner now if it is likely to change again soon unless it's part of a larger strategy around the merger.
If the decision was to keep the Vons name in SoCal because buyers are demanding the local exclusive licensing of the Albertsons banner (which Save Mart folks probably would ask for) then I think we could start seeing a bunch of banner changes between the two names well before the merger closes, if it ever does. Good example is that odd situation in Murrieta where they would want to make a token divest of the Vons across the street from the busier, nicer Albertsons. Do they swap banners at this intersection? It's obvious the grungy Vons store with the white painted Lifestyle 1.0 is not being kept. Do we see a wholesale change of South Orange County and Riverside County where the Vons name has nearly disappeared?
Now that we know from news reports that Save Mart is definitely involved and the lead acquirer of Albertsons/Safeway stores to advance the merger I'm sure the rest of the strategy is going to kick in. Clearly the Safeway folks made decisions in advance around not helping Haggen as evidenced by the fact that they didn't offer the needed sales history and other local data for the stores (and Haggen was too stupid to require it anyway). Save Mart will be ready to compete on day one and won't accept the kind of deals Haggen did. If Kroger and Albertsons aren't already advancing an agenda to protect against the new competitor they're required to build up with stores then they ensure they don't get the maximum potential of the merger. Starting an effort to retain all customers with the new Kroger on day one of a combined company is frankly too late. I think we are seeing the beginning of the strategy emerge around potentially licensing the Albertsons nameplate in SoCal to Save Mart.
You're reading too much into this. Until the merger is approved, it's business as usual. It wouldn't be lawful for the operations side to coordinate with the merger folks, hence why Albertsons is proceeding with numerous remodels / etc. that Kroger would probably elaborate on.
