Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by ClownLoach »

Apparently this is a tragic loss of the best public restroom in town too?

https://sfstandard.com/arts-culture/nor ... m-in-town/
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by rwsandiego »

ClownLoach wrote: May 4th, 2023, 8:07 pm Apparently this is a tragic loss of the best public restroom in town too?

https://sfstandard.com/arts-culture/nor ... m-in-town/
Ha! I used the Nordstrom restroom on many a trip to San Francisco. They also had a decent restaurant. It was a nice oasis in downtown SF.
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

Surely Bloomingdale's can pick up where they left off on restroom quality.
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by SamSpade »

rwsandiego wrote: May 4th, 2023, 8:40 pm
ClownLoach wrote: May 4th, 2023, 8:07 pm Apparently this is a tragic loss of the best public restroom in town too?

https://sfstandard.com/arts-culture/nor ... m-in-town/
Ha! I used the Nordstrom restroom on many a trip to San Francisco. They also had a decent restaurant. It was a nice oasis in downtown SF.
My partner and I had a really pleasant evening meal at Bazille! They did seat us by the couple with a young child, but otherwise it will be missed.
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by ClownLoach »

Apparently CNN is going to be airing a special called "What Happened to San Francisco?" which will dig into the situation of the closures of so many businesses, the homeless situation etc.

https://ktla.com/news/california/cnn-to ... o-special/
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: May 14th, 2023, 8:40 pm Apparently CNN is going to be airing a special called "What Happened to San Francisco?" which will dig into the situation of the closures of so many businesses, the homeless situation etc.

https://ktla.com/news/california/cnn-to ... o-special/
This Nordstrom closure activity is really calling attention to what is happening in that city's Union Square area.

The Whole Foods articles mostly fail to mention that 9 Whole Foods are remaining open in San Francisco. I have had so many people who are really knowledgeable but not all that familiar with San Francisco talk to me about how Whole Foods is closing in San Francisco. Actually well, they are closing one single store, yes it was the largest/newest store, but a real estate mistake in the first place, and they will still have 9 (or is it 10) stores in various other neighborhoods in San Francisco. It is hardly a market exit or sign of issues with the format as some people are trying to draw such a conclusion. Also many do not seem to be aware of the high Trader Joe's count in San Francisco.

From a grocery store perspective I'd argue San Francisco has better choices now than it had 10 years ago thanks to multiple new Trader Joe's/Whole Foods units.

And while many Walgreens/CVS units closed, how big of a loss is it really? Walgreens had so many stores, and still has so many. There are fewer CVS yes, but before CVS, Longs only had one store in San Francisco, and frankly if CVS closes is anyone going to miss it?

I am not about to defend what has caused this series of events to go the way it has in San Francisco (are their city workers still "work from home?" - part of why NYC has recovered is due to that mayor forcing the city workers all back to the office) and this is decades of failed leadership that has brought things to this point. But in a city where 90% of the voters voted for this leadership nothing will change ever.

Maybe some retailers will figure out how to turn a profit in this type of place and can fill in the voids. I get the impression Trader Joe's has figured it out. Maybe Ikea will be a success when (if) it opens.
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

storewanderer wrote: May 14th, 2023, 11:48 pm I am not about to defend what has caused this series of events to go the way it has in San Francisco (are their city workers still "work from home?" - part of why NYC has recovered is due to that mayor forcing the city workers all back to the office) and this is decades of failed leadership that has brought things to this point. But in a city where 90% of the voters voted for this leadership nothing will change ever.
If we want to go down the road of politics, look at places in Appalachia that have high rates of drug use, poverty and probably mental illness. There's one county in Appalachia, McDowell County, WV that is so impoverished that Walmart closed its store there. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lmart-left
This is a region where counties vote upwards of 80-90% for the opposite party. Those places seem to be far worse shape than San Francisco.
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by storewanderer »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: May 15th, 2023, 11:31 pm
If we want to go down the road of politics, look at places in Appalachia that have high rates of drug use, poverty and probably mental illness. There's one county in Appalachia, McDowell County, WV that is so impoverished that Walmart closed its store there. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lmart-left
This is a region where counties vote upwards of 80-90% for the opposite party. Those places seem to be far worse shape than San Francisco.
That isn't quite the whole story about that county. It appears the people there have had enough and are finally trying to make some changes happen in 2022. Well, the 29.7% of them who bothered to vote. Also that county was Democrat dominated for decades until 2010.
https://www.wvva.com/2022/11/09/democra ... -election/

As far as that specific Wal Mart goes, it is a store that opened in 2005 of about 100k square feet and was a Supercenter. It was in a barely remodeled former Kmart building (not sure when Kmart closed). Given the population in the county kept declining basically the entire time the store was open (despite the shift in political power that occurred in the county in 2010, the decline just kept going and going as it had for decades), it isn't very surprising the store closed based on that and that it was a lousy facility in an old building.

So in this case you cite in VA I think the problems could have something to do with poor decisions of politicians from decades ago (I don't care what party they are, but they were the party that was in control from before 2010, the same party that controls San Francisco today) who failed to keep the economy in the area going and saw population keep falling given the industry/lack thereof in the area, I think the situation there was simply one where it wasn't something politicians could have actually fixed anyway, regardless of what party they were. Some areas are just for a lack of better words not good for economic development and I think this is one of those places.

Completely different problems in San Francisco.

I find politics to be somewhat like retail. Over time, places change. Same goes with politics. To be loyal to one store (or political position- note I used the phrase position and not party) for decades is a position that I feel needs very critical assessment to determine if it is really the right path. I thought Safeway was the best grocer back in the mid-late 90's and into the 00's, then they lost their way. Later in the 00's I thought Kroger was running on all cylinders and did great into the 10's then started to do things I did not particularly like with regards to too few new stores, too much spending on online initiatives, etc., and now this merger... So now I don't know. I like some regional chains but again things change- I used to really like Hy Vee but in the past few years things have really changed at Hy Vee and I don't think it is quite the same chain it was a few years ago. There is Publix who seems like the same old Publix it has always been but I just don't care for Publix, but I will say Publix is quite steady in how it does things, so for people who like Publix over many decades, that is great, Publix keeps giving them what they like and doesn't deviate or make big changes. So I see politics the same way. But at this point when politics are polarized by things as trivial as a face mask, plastic bag, or a foam food container... I don't know. Realistically I think most people agree on probably 90%+ of issues and what needs to be done but operating even halfway in a manner that takes that approach and tries to get to work on that 90%+ of issues and make things better for the public seemed to stop 20 years ago in the political arena.
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by veteran+ »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: May 15th, 2023, 11:31 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 14th, 2023, 11:48 pm I am not about to defend what has caused this series of events to go the way it has in San Francisco (are their city workers still "work from home?" - part of why NYC has recovered is due to that mayor forcing the city workers all back to the office) and this is decades of failed leadership that has brought things to this point. But in a city where 90% of the voters voted for this leadership nothing will change ever.
If we want to go down the road of politics, look at places in Appalachia that have high rates of drug use, poverty and probably mental illness. There's one county in Appalachia, McDowell County, WV that is so impoverished that Walmart closed its store there. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lmart-left
This is a region where counties vote upwards of 80-90% for the opposite party. Those places seem to be far worse shape than San Francisco.
Interesting story about one the the nation's LARGEST homeless encampments in Phoenix Arizona................but let's talk about California's San Francisco ad nauseum.

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

Post by buckguy »

veteran+ wrote: May 16th, 2023, 8:39 am
retailfanmitchell019 wrote: May 15th, 2023, 11:31 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 14th, 2023, 11:48 pm I am not about to defend what has caused this series of events to go the way it has in San Francisco (are their city workers still "work from home?" - part of why NYC has recovered is due to that mayor forcing the city workers all back to the office) and this is decades of failed leadership that has brought things to this point. But in a city where 90% of the voters voted for this leadership nothing will change ever.
If we want to go down the road of politics, look at places in Appalachia that have high rates of drug use, poverty and probably mental illness. There's one county in Appalachia, McDowell County, WV that is so impoverished that Walmart closed its store there. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lmart-left
This is a region where counties vote upwards of 80-90% for the opposite party. Those places seem to be far worse shape than San Francisco.
Interesting story about one the the nation's LARGEST homeless encampments in Phoenix Arizona................but let's talk about California's San Francisco ad nauseum.

:lol: :lol:
CNN is merely reporting on a story they've probably he;lped blow out of proportion.

I regularly talk to people who work in downtown LA and their perspective is that the techies thought they could gentrify the Tenderloin which has been the poorest part of the city and its version of skid row for many, many decades. In the end, they couldn't---many of the social agencies there own their properties and there is housing on long-term subsidy agreements, etc. plus the techies' redevelopments stalled during COVID. They mostly describe the area as its always been. I've been visiting SF for about 30 years and usually windup downtown because of where meetings are located and often cross the Tenderloin. The Tenderloin has been shrinking over that time, very slowly, along with adjacent areas like South of Market (which really changed once the convention center went-up). South of Market has evolved through a variety of uses---warehouses and cheaper retail--North Face used to have an outlet there and many bars--those kinds of uses have been replaced by those that can pay higher rents. The effort to redevelop the Tnederloin, if only its edges, goes back decades---if no place else was available, there was a Holiday Inn just off Market, close to the Civic Center that usually had rooms. It probably dated from the 80s and was one of those early attempts, along upgrades to the Civic Center.

The return of retail to downtown SF probably depends on the return to tourism, which seems to be varying nationally. The comeback in DC has been slow, but this year we seem to have the full complement of school trips, events like law enforcement week, etc. Georgetown lost quite a bit of retail during COVID but the vacancies are slowly filling-up--that area depends a lot on foreign toruism which came back before the domestic variety. I was in Chicago last fall and was impressed how Michigan Avenue had comeback--few vacancies and lots of people with a very positive energy. Times Square & Herald Square have largely comeback although there are some retail vacancies--still, neighborhoods where regular New Yorkers live like teh Upper West Side seem back to normal. SF depends a lot on foreign tourists, including those from Asia and I don't have a sense of how that has changed recently. I was in Seattle a couple months ago, so it wasn't cruise season yet and there weren't many tourists, but the downtown area wasn't as dire as I'd seen it described---downtown Seattle and its adjecaent neighborhoods like Belltown, Pike/Pine and Pioneer Square never seem totally in synch--if one is struggling one or more of the others seem to prosper. Pioneer Square has lost its galleries but finally seems to have a decent range of restaurants and hotels---the actual square is the historic skid row and I've seen way more homeless people there in the past than I did this year.
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