Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by pseudo3d »

klkla wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:Publix has gone so scorched-earth in Florida that they'd operate stores across from the street from each other, and has such rigid square footage ideas that they've torn down '90s-era Albertsons stores for slightly smaller Publix stores.
Wow. That's interesting. I didn't realize they had tore down such recently built Albertson's and then built totally new stores on the property. That seems really expensive. How many locations did they do this at? Which locations?
According to AFB, maybe not really "that" recently built, but certainly close to that with some unusual cases.

#4202 3700 4th St N St. Petersburg FL - 1970s-era Skaggs Albertsons store but remodeled and expanded in 1998, Publix bought in 2008, tore it down, and rebuilt it--all while keeping a store open across the street
#4333 2381 W. State Road 434 Longwood FL - Late 1970s Albertsons that Publix bought in 2008. In 2013, it was completely torn down for a new store that was about the same size if not smaller
#4374 3838 Britton Plaza Tampa FL - 1989 Albertsons sold to Publix in 2008, torn down in 2015 for slightly smaller store to fit Publix standards
#4428 3521 Thomasville Road Tallahassee FL - Opened 1996 in a former Kmart(!) that closed in early 1995 (facade obviously got slight renovation). Closed in 2008 and torn down by Publix in 2009.
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by architect »

pseudo3d wrote:
klkla wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:Publix has gone so scorched-earth in Florida that they'd operate stores across from the street from each other, and has such rigid square footage ideas that they've torn down '90s-era Albertsons stores for slightly smaller Publix stores.
Wow. That's interesting. I didn't realize they had tore down such recently built Albertson's and then built totally new stores on the property. That seems really expensive. How many locations did they do this at? Which locations?
According to AFB, maybe not really "that" recently built, but certainly close to that with some unusual cases.

#4202 3700 4th St N St. Petersburg FL - 1970s-era Skaggs Albertsons store but remodeled and expanded in 1998, Publix bought in 2008, tore it down, and rebuilt it--all while keeping a store open across the street
#4333 2381 W. State Road 434 Longwood FL - Late 1970s Albertsons that Publix bought in 2008. In 2013, it was completely torn down for a new store that was about the same size if not smaller
#4374 3838 Britton Plaza Tampa FL - 1989 Albertsons sold to Publix in 2008, torn down in 2015 for slightly smaller store to fit Publix standards
#4428 3521 Thomasville Road Tallahassee FL - Opened 1996 in a former Kmart(!) that closed in early 1995 (facade obviously got slight renovation). Closed in 2008 and torn down by Publix in 2009.
Although many of these locations had seen renovations prior to Publix taking over, all but one of these stores at least partially dated from the 1980's at the latest. From an architectural standpoint, it was likely that these buildings needed a substantial capital investment to remain usable. Although it may seem counterintuitve for Publix to replace these stores, it is often cheaper and more time-effective to do a full rebuild, vs. trying to shoehorn a prototype grocery format into a space not designed for it. In addition, when a new store is constructed, sustainability strategies (especially pertaining to energy and water usage) can be better implemented which can ultimately make a new store more cost effective than a remodel over the long haul. Lastly, do remember that the hot weather and coastal humidity in Florida wreck havoc on buildings (especially roofs and HVAC systems), shortening it's lifespan compared to other regions of the country.
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by pseudo3d »

architect wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:
klkla wrote:
Wow. That's interesting. I didn't realize they had tore down such recently built Albertson's and then built totally new stores on the property. That seems really expensive. How many locations did they do this at? Which locations?
According to AFB, maybe not really "that" recently built, but certainly close to that with some unusual cases.

#4202 3700 4th St N St. Petersburg FL - 1970s-era Skaggs Albertsons store but remodeled and expanded in 1998, Publix bought in 2008, tore it down, and rebuilt it--all while keeping a store open across the street
#4333 2381 W. State Road 434 Longwood FL - Late 1970s Albertsons that Publix bought in 2008. In 2013, it was completely torn down for a new store that was about the same size if not smaller
#4374 3838 Britton Plaza Tampa FL - 1989 Albertsons sold to Publix in 2008, torn down in 2015 for slightly smaller store to fit Publix standards
#4428 3521 Thomasville Road Tallahassee FL - Opened 1996 in a former Kmart(!) that closed in early 1995 (facade obviously got slight renovation). Closed in 2008 and torn down by Publix in 2009.
Although many of these locations had seen renovations prior to Publix taking over, all but one of these stores at least partially dated from the 1980's at the latest. From an architectural standpoint, it was likely that these buildings needed a substantial capital investment to remain usable. Although it may seem counterintuitve for Publix to replace these stores, it is often cheaper and more time-effective to do a full rebuild, vs. trying to shoehorn a prototype grocery format into a space not designed for it. In addition, when a new store is constructed, sustainability strategies (especially pertaining to energy and water usage) can be better implemented which can ultimately make a new store more cost effective than a remodel over the long haul. Lastly, do remember that the hot weather and coastal humidity in Florida wreck havoc on buildings (especially roofs and HVAC systems), shortening it's lifespan compared to other regions of the country.
Grocery stores aren't housing stock, they don't go obsolete in that short a time, and I don't think they rebuilt the stores specifically for sustainability reasons. Most of the Albertsons stores Publix bought were just as old (if not older), though they also were closer to Publix's template. We've discussed here how different Publix is in its general strategies and how it operates stores. This is one of those idiosyncrasies.
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by veteran+ »

I can tell you, having worked for Publix, they do not like to take over stores (obviously they do and eventually rebuild).

They do not care for other retailer designs and they rarely even hire employees from other retailers (unless it is a brand new region and they are unable to import enough employees).

They consistently grow their stores and employees organically (with few exceptions).

They also have the money to do this.

BTW...........land in Florida is not more expensive relative to other comparative metropolitan areas (maybe Texas is a little less expensive).
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by storewanderer »

I think in general Publix tends to use low cost areas to its advantage to fuel growth. They are a very smart company.

Did they buy others stores in Atlanta? I went into one (I think it may have been open 24 hours too, you sure won't see that in Florida) that felt like a former A&P due to the exterior, but inside it was the usual Publix.
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by veteran+ »

Low cost areas pertaining to land, construction, etc. and talent (employees).

I'm not sure if they bought stores in Atlanta as the genesis of entering the market (I do not remember, lol).

It is unusual for Publix to be 24 hours (does anyone know if this is true outside of Florida?).

BTW............many Pantry Pride stores in Florida used to be 24 hour operations (that was quite a few years ago). I have not recently noticed any grocery stores in Florida that are opened 24 hours (has anyone else noticed?).
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by Knight »

veteran+ wrote:I can tell you, having worked for Publix, they do not like to take over stores (obviously they do and eventually rebuild).
Publix has acquired stores from competitors (Albertson's and Bi-Lo in recent memory), but have not acquired entire chains. Specific stores that are performing well and/or in good locations are quick acquisition targets. Acquiring entire chains involves taking on stores that are not performing well and/or in bad locations.
veteran+ wrote:...they rarely even hire employees from other retailers (unless it is a brand new region and they are unable to import enough employees).

They consistently grow their stores and employees organically (with few exceptions).
Divisional, regional, district, store, and department management positions are usually filled within the company. Management members are trained and tested in the company's best practices

Stores opening in new markets where Publix does not have much presence will likely have job fairs for entry and non-management positions in the bakery, delicatessen, front end, grocery, meat, and produce departments.
storewanderer wrote:Did they buy others stores in Atlanta?
I know Publix opened stores in two former Winn-Dixie stores in Georgia and Tennessee. Most stores were and are built organically.
veteran+ wrote:It is unusual for Publix to be 24 hours (does anyone know if this is true outside of Florida?).
Publix stores can open as early as 0600 hours (6 am) and close as late as 2300 hours (11 pm). Most stores operate from 0700 hours (7 am) to 2200 hours (10 pm). No store is open 24 hours.
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by pseudo3d »

Knight wrote:
veteran+ wrote:I can tell you, having worked for Publix, they do not like to take over stores (obviously they do and eventually rebuild).
Publix has acquired stores from competitors (Albertson's and Bi-Lo in recent memory), but have not acquired entire chains. Specific stores that are performing well and/or in good locations are quick acquisition targets. Acquiring entire chains involves taking on stores that are not performing well and/or in bad locations.
veteran+ wrote:...they rarely even hire employees from other retailers (unless it is a brand new region and they are unable to import enough employees).

They consistently grow their stores and employees organically (with few exceptions).
Divisional, regional, district, store, and department management positions are usually filled within the company. Management members are trained and tested in the company's best practices

Stores opening in new markets where Publix does not have much presence will likely have job fairs for entry and non-management positions in the bakery, delicatessen, front end, grocery, meat, and produce departments.
storewanderer wrote:Did they buy others stores in Atlanta?
I know Publix opened stores in two former Winn-Dixie stores in Georgia and Tennessee. Most stores were and are built organically.
veteran+ wrote:It is unusual for Publix to be 24 hours (does anyone know if this is true outside of Florida?).
Publix stores can open as early as 0600 hours (6 am) and close as late as 2300 hours (11 pm). Most stores operate from 0700 hours (7 am) to 2200 hours (10 pm). No store is open 24 hours.
Even in college towns or high-volume locations? That's unusual. Before it closed in 1997, the former Skaggs Albertsons (later an Albertsons) adjacent to my alma mater was a 24 hour location, and later, the H-E-B which absorbed most of the campus traffic (as well as serving most of the rest of the town, it's a very high-volume store) is also 24 hours. The Kroger on the more north side of town is another 24 hour store, though there's almost no volume in the wee hours of the night and is more for show than anything.
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by Knight »

pseudo3d wrote: Even in college towns or high-volume locations?
Regardless of their locations or their consistently high volumes, all Publix stores are not open 24 hours.
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Re: Could Kroger be preparing for a Florida move-in?

Post by pseudo3d »

Knight wrote:
pseudo3d wrote: Even in college towns or high-volume locations?
Regardless of their locations or their consistently high volumes, all Publix stores are not open 24 hours.
I know that ALL of the Publix are 24 hours, but you mean to say that no Publix store is open 24 hours, much like Chick-fil-a is never open on Sundays?
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