Walmart observations

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Re: Walmart observations

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: November 15th, 2023, 10:30 am There are specific food safety laws that cover this.

Cross contamination can deadly.
I want to expand on your comment, this is a big deal that should not be downplayed. Improper sanitation in deli can be cause of listeria and many other serious problems.

Also for people with food allergies or personal beliefs regarding not eating certain food types (for instance people who do not eat pork, but do eat turkey) this is a big deal as well that delis are properly maintained/clean and equipment is properly cleaned and operated.

I see no issue with throwing away food that is not prepared or handled in a sanitary manner. That is the store's loss. If they trained their employees properly there would be no food waste.

The Boar's Head program trains on all of these topics.

Unfortunately a lack of ability of stores to profitably and efficiently execute these food safety guidelines is driving more and more commissary or outside store preparation, pre-sliced lunchmeats and the like on the deli side.

Or stuff like and I won't say what chain but in one grocery store I was in and looking at what to purchase from deli, there were two deli employees and one of them had a cough phlem thing going on and commented to the other as he was slicing some lunchmeat "yeah I am sick but I wanted to get through today because I have a couple days off after this so maybe stay away from me" as he was slicing lunchmeat for Clicklist (guess I just gave away the chain) orders. No mask either. Obviously I didn't purchase anything.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 11:55 am
veteran+ wrote: November 15th, 2023, 10:30 am There are specific food safety laws that cover this.

Cross contamination can deadly.
I want to expand on your comment, this is a big deal that should not be downplayed. Improper sanitation in deli can be cause of listeria and many other serious problems.

Also for people with food allergies or personal beliefs regarding not eating certain food types (for instance people who do not eat pork, but do eat turkey) this is a big deal as well that delis are properly maintained/clean and equipment is properly cleaned and operated.

I see no issue with throwing away food that is not prepared or handled in a sanitary manner. That is the store's loss. If they trained their employees properly there would be no food waste.

The Boar's Head program trains on all of these topics.

Unfortunately a lack of ability of stores to profitably and efficiently execute these food safety guidelines is driving more and more commissary or outside store preparation, pre-sliced lunchmeats and the like on the deli side.

Or stuff like and I won't say what chain but in one grocery store I was in and looking at what to purchase from deli, there were two deli employees and one of them had a cough phlem thing going on and commented to the other as he was slicing some lunchmeat "yeah I am sick but I wanted to get through today because I have a couple days off after this so maybe stay away from me" as he was slicing lunchmeat for Clicklist (guess I just gave away the chain) orders. No mask either. Obviously I didn't purchase anything.
I have sent in complaints to Kroger twice about their operation at this store, both health specific concerns, and they send worthless form letter responses indicating that they didn't even read my concern. Thus now if I see anything unsanitary I will just tell them to stop, tell them what I saw them do which was unsafe, and if there is product that I felt unsafe about I will tell them I refuse to take it and they need to throw it away. But it isn't always easy to spot based on where the slicers are versus the high cases at the counter. Only other place in town with Boars Head is Sprouts and of course the closest location is a disgusting dump; the other location which is about as far as possible from my house is very well run but is too inconvenient at almost 15 miles away and terrible traffic. The only other Ralphs here is even further away.

It takes mere seconds to wipe the surface under the slicer with sanitizer, wipe it again with dry paper towel, and then lay down the sheet of sanitary plastic. Putting the sanitary plastic over existing meat juice and particles is not acceptable but they keep trying to do it, all that contamination now goes into the zip-lock bag to spread through the product. I think the "Deli Manager" at Kroger stores spends all their time hiding in the back prep room so that they don't have to do real work like servicing the public.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: November 15th, 2023, 6:55 pm

I have sent in complaints to Kroger twice about their operation at this store, both health specific concerns, and they send worthless form letter responses indicating that they didn't even read my concern. Thus now if I see anything unsanitary I will just tell them to stop, tell them what I saw them do which was unsafe, and if there is product that I felt unsafe about I will tell them I refuse to take it and they need to throw it away. But it isn't always easy to spot based on where the slicers are versus the high cases at the counter. Only other place in town with Boars Head is Sprouts and of course the closest location is a disgusting dump; the other location which is about as far as possible from my house is very well run but is too inconvenient at almost 15 miles away and terrible traffic. The only other Ralphs here is even further away.

It takes mere seconds to wipe the surface under the slicer with sanitizer, wipe it again with dry paper towel, and then lay down the sheet of sanitary plastic. Putting the sanitary plastic over existing meat juice and particles is not acceptable but they keep trying to do it, all that contamination now goes into the zip-lock bag to spread through the product. I think the "Deli Manager" at Kroger stores spends all their time hiding in the back prep room so that they don't have to do real work like servicing the public.
They won't throw the product away though, they will just throw it into the "prepack" area.

I can't see the slicer or much of the process at Sprouts due to how its deli is designed.

The deli manager in one of the Smiths here has been there since the store opened and is constantly working, overtime most weeks as Kroger is very generous with overtime at least at Smiths and has been for years, but when you have constant employee turnover and constant paperwork/red tape imposed on you by Kroger you only have so much time to train and watch the employees... it comes down to getting the right employees into deli who understand and care about food safety. They don't pay enough to get people who care to stick around, other departments are easier work and have higher pay rates. This is a problem across many chains. Deli should in my opinion pay more even than raw meat, raw meat has gotten a lot easier over the years due to the increased processing of meat, increased case ready meat, more and more boneless slab meats (fewer big bone in slabs that require more skill to cut). These Kroger deli managers have a lot of different programs to deal with between Boar's Head, Murray's Cheese, "Home Chef," now some stores are on a fresh pizza program, among others. Recently they changed the fried chicken recipe (which Kroger is hand breading in store) to a double breading process so now that takes twice as long as before. No labor is added. Also Kroger can't seem to figure out if they want to do sandwich prep in store or have sandwiches come from a commissary but when you are trying to run a deli if you have a sandwich program you need to have a sandwich program everyday because that is a bar to clean, stock, vegetables to clean/prepare, etc., and to just do that some random days when the stuff from the commissary doesn't show up messes up the flow of an already messy flowing deli. And of course no labor is added for the random days/weeks when deli needs to prepare sandwiches as the labor model assumes commissary use.

These delis need to cut a lot of excess programs and get back to basics.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 8:49 pm
ClownLoach wrote: November 15th, 2023, 6:55 pm

I have sent in complaints to Kroger twice about their operation at this store, both health specific concerns, and they send worthless form letter responses indicating that they didn't even read my concern. Thus now if I see anything unsanitary I will just tell them to stop, tell them what I saw them do which was unsafe, and if there is product that I felt unsafe about I will tell them I refuse to take it and they need to throw it away. But it isn't always easy to spot based on where the slicers are versus the high cases at the counter. Only other place in town with Boars Head is Sprouts and of course the closest location is a disgusting dump; the other location which is about as far as possible from my house is very well run but is too inconvenient at almost 15 miles away and terrible traffic. The only other Ralphs here is even further away.

It takes mere seconds to wipe the surface under the slicer with sanitizer, wipe it again with dry paper towel, and then lay down the sheet of sanitary plastic. Putting the sanitary plastic over existing meat juice and particles is not acceptable but they keep trying to do it, all that contamination now goes into the zip-lock bag to spread through the product. I think the "Deli Manager" at Kroger stores spends all their time hiding in the back prep room so that they don't have to do real work like servicing the public.
They won't throw the product away though, they will just throw it into the "prepack" area.

I can't see the slicer or much of the process at Sprouts due to how its deli is designed.

The deli manager in one of the Smiths here has been there since the store opened and is constantly working, overtime most weeks as Kroger is very generous with overtime at least at Smiths and has been for years, but when you have constant employee turnover and constant paperwork/red tape imposed on you by Kroger you only have so much time to train and watch the employees... it comes down to getting the right employees into deli who understand and care about food safety. They don't pay enough to get people who care to stick around, other departments are easier work and have higher pay rates. This is a problem across many chains. Deli should in my opinion pay more even than raw meat, raw meat has gotten a lot easier over the years due to the increased processing of meat, increased case ready meat, more and more boneless slab meats (fewer big bone in slabs that require more skill to cut). These Kroger deli managers have a lot of different programs to deal with between Boar's Head, Murray's Cheese, "Home Chef," now some stores are on a fresh pizza program, among others. Recently they changed the fried chicken recipe (which Kroger is hand breading in store) to a double breading process so now that takes twice as long as before. No labor is added. Also Kroger can't seem to figure out if they want to do sandwich prep in store or have sandwiches come from a commissary but when you are trying to run a deli if you have a sandwich program you need to have a sandwich program everyday because that is a bar to clean, stock, vegetables to clean/prepare, etc., and to just do that some random days when the stuff from the commissary doesn't show up messes up the flow of an already messy flowing deli. And of course no labor is added for the random days/weeks when deli needs to prepare sandwiches as the labor model assumes commissary use.

These delis need to cut a lot of excess programs and get back to basics.
That's really interesting and I did not know it (regarding rate of pay).

Typically (in the past) service folks (deli, meat, seafood, bakery) got a higher rate of pay than GM and Grocery clerks. Also, different Unions too.

What happened?
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 8:49 pm
ClownLoach wrote: November 15th, 2023, 6:55 pm

I have sent in complaints to Kroger twice about their operation at this store, both health specific concerns, and they send worthless form letter responses indicating that they didn't even read my concern. Thus now if I see anything unsanitary I will just tell them to stop, tell them what I saw them do which was unsafe, and if there is product that I felt unsafe about I will tell them I refuse to take it and they need to throw it away. But it isn't always easy to spot based on where the slicers are versus the high cases at the counter. Only other place in town with Boars Head is Sprouts and of course the closest location is a disgusting dump; the other location which is about as far as possible from my house is very well run but is too inconvenient at almost 15 miles away and terrible traffic. The only other Ralphs here is even further away.

It takes mere seconds to wipe the surface under the slicer with sanitizer, wipe it again with dry paper towel, and then lay down the sheet of sanitary plastic. Putting the sanitary plastic over existing meat juice and particles is not acceptable but they keep trying to do it, all that contamination now goes into the zip-lock bag to spread through the product. I think the "Deli Manager" at Kroger stores spends all their time hiding in the back prep room so that they don't have to do real work like servicing the public.
They won't throw the product away though, they will just throw it into the "prepack" area.

I can't see the slicer or much of the process at Sprouts due to how its deli is designed.

The deli manager in one of the Smiths here has been there since the store opened and is constantly working, overtime most weeks as Kroger is very generous with overtime at least at Smiths and has been for years, but when you have constant employee turnover and constant paperwork/red tape imposed on you by Kroger you only have so much time to train and watch the employees... it comes down to getting the right employees into deli who understand and care about food safety. They don't pay enough to get people who care to stick around, other departments are easier work and have higher pay rates. This is a problem across many chains. Deli should in my opinion pay more even than raw meat, raw meat has gotten a lot easier over the years due to the increased processing of meat, increased case ready meat, more and more boneless slab meats (fewer big bone in slabs that require more skill to cut). These Kroger deli managers have a lot of different programs to deal with between Boar's Head, Murray's Cheese, "Home Chef," now some stores are on a fresh pizza program, among others. Recently they changed the fried chicken recipe (which Kroger is hand breading in store) to a double breading process so now that takes twice as long as before. No labor is added. Also Kroger can't seem to figure out if they want to do sandwich prep in store or have sandwiches come from a commissary but when you are trying to run a deli if you have a sandwich program you need to have a sandwich program everyday because that is a bar to clean, stock, vegetables to clean/prepare, etc., and to just do that some random days when the stuff from the commissary doesn't show up messes up the flow of an already messy flowing deli. And of course no labor is added for the random days/weeks when deli needs to prepare sandwiches as the labor model assumes commissary use.

These delis need to cut a lot of excess programs and get back to basics.
It went right into the trash and they wrote something on a clipboard which probably is a shrink tracker.

I have not seen a Ralphs that still offers a sandwich bar. I grew up on those Ralphs sandwiches, they were fresh and cheap and otherwise made on the subway type model where you could customize everything and the sandwich was nearly a foot long but loaded with meat and cheese plus produce for $5.49. A large was bigger than a footlong, probably like 16 inches and it was $7.99, it was enough to feed a small family. Come to think of it, I think Vons has been phasing out the sandwich bars they offered too which weren't as good, smaller sandwich that was more expensive but they had more "fancy" toppings like various spreads that were probably all cream cheese based. I don't recall if the Vons programs for sandwiches are in Albertsons. Basically it seems to me like the grocery stores have decided to pack it in and not offer this service anymore which is disappointing. It doesn't seem like it was that long ago where you could trust these store deli counters to get this right, versus going to Subway where freshness was questionable and I got sick from their food several times. At least now we have Jersey Mike's these days which basically makes what Ralphs used to, but for nearly double the price.

I have not spent much time looking at the Smiths operation but it seemed like their deli had a much larger selection of product versus the Ralphs format. Only Smiths I've been in recently is that new Marketplace on the southeast corner of Las Vegas, the huge store that looks like a mid size Fred Meyer and even has a small apparel department. That store had a very busy Deli though that was well staffed; heck the entire Smiths Marketplace store probably has the staffing of a district of Ralphs stores. They had the ability to maintain the store at a higher standard than Ralphs. Entire time I was walking around, blown away by the selection and lower pricing than SoCal I was just thinking about how they can't get a store of similar quality into SoCal. Its not a "fancy" store either, just a solid quality store.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by veteran+ »

Many Ralphs near me still have the sandwich operation.

I do not like any of them. Bad service, not so fresh and other issues.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by ClownLoach »

veteran+ wrote: November 16th, 2023, 9:00 am Many Ralphs near me still have the sandwich operation.

I do not like any of them. Bad service, not so fresh and other issues.
Am I correct that they kept it in the LA County market? It seems to be totally gone in Orange, Riverside, and San Diego counties. It's been a very long time since I've had a Ralphs sandwich.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by veteran+ »

It seems around my area they are still doing it.

Not sure about the "hinterlands" of L.A. County ;)
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by BillyGr »

veteran+ wrote: November 15th, 2023, 10:30 am There are specific food safety laws that cover this.

Cross contamination can deadly.
Obviously, you didn't read very well!

I specifically said THROW AWAY THE SLICE OR TWO that actually TOUCHED THE METAL - that would eliminate ANY SUCH CONTAMINATION!

The rest of the product above that WAS NOT CONTAMINATED, nor would it EVER BE SO - that is where the stupidity and waste of money (of not just this customer but of EVERY customer in that store) is.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: November 15th, 2023, 11:55 am I want to expand on your comment, this is a big deal that should not be downplayed. Improper sanitation in deli can be cause of listeria and many other serious problems.

Also, for people with food allergies or personal beliefs regarding not eating certain food types (for instance people who do not eat pork but do eat turkey) this is a big deal as well that delis are properly maintained/clean, and equipment is properly cleaned and operated.

I see no issue with throwing away food that is not prepared or handled in a sanitary manner. That is the store's loss. If they trained their employees properly there would be no food waste.
Once again, had anyone read what I posted, throwing out THE ACTUAL PIECES THAT TOUCHED THE SURFACE would have eliminated any issues - the remainder of the product was NOT contaminated!

As to that second sentence (not eating one type of meat vs. another or allergies), they just need to not buy anything from a deli, as EVERY store slices all types of items on the same machine one after the other, so there is ALWAYS a chance of a tiny bit of one item getting on another item no matter how well they do it.

Also, to note, it may be the "store's loss", but then they make it up by charging EVERYONE ELSE more for something that they don't have an issue with, meaning they pay for someone else's problems, just like with the stores refusing to stop thieves and just charging everyone else more :)
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