Walmart observations

Predicting the demise of Sears & Kmart since 2017!
SamSpade
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by SamSpade »

Brian Lutz wrote: April 6th, 2022, 8:59 am My wife went to that Factoria Walmart last week while I was doing some work-related stuff in the area and said that even by Walmart standards that store was pretty terrible, which is odd because it has what is likely the most affluent demographics of any Walmart store in Washington. It was built in what used to be the mall's Mervyn's store, and even though it was technically a Supercenter, it was probably the smallest one I've seen at around 76,000 square feet (basically the size of a large grocery store) and had a really weird layout because it had to reuse the Mervyn's building. The article says that the store opened in 2012, so it seems to be a non-renewal of a 10 year lease. Aside from the Neighborhood Market elsewhere in Bellevue (which actually opened before the Walmart store did in part of a former KMart on 148th) this is the only Walmart store on the Eastside, and I can think of pretty much nowhere else on the Eastside that they could build a store unless they wanted to buy some farmland in the Sammamish Valley or out on Union Hill Road and somehow convince the Redmond City Council to let them rezone it (highly unlikely.)

As for Target stores near Walmarts, there's one in Everett where they're only a few blocks away from each other on Everett Mall Way, but generally I can't think of many. In Redmond there's also a Target that's right next door to a Fred Meyer store, and both of those stores seem to do fine.
Dagnabbit, I almost went in there to see what in the heck they did with the old Mervyn's block. Guess I missed my chance (for others - this was one of the "neighborhood/single-story" Mervyn's, not one of the larger 2 story regional mall sized ones).

The Walmart neighborhood market strip center looks really healthy! I'd have no idea that was previously a KMart or cancerous shopping plaza.

I can also say there really isn't any wide-open land to build a new store on the "Seattle eastside" so I guess other than pickup and delivery from the NM, they've decided to leave.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by mjhale »

Brian Lutz wrote: April 6th, 2022, 9:23 am I believe the store is considered a Supercenter, but had no service (deli/bakery) departments. Oddly enough the Neighborhood Market elsewhere in Bellevue doesn't have any service departments either.
There are several Supercenters in the DC area that do not have service departments due to space constraints. In the one nearest me they do have a kitchen area in the back to make rotisserie chickens and the thaw and bake breads. The larger Supercenters were built with full deli and bakery operations. Over time the deli has been scaled back to only a very basic selection of meats and cheeses. The bakery is standard Walmart whatever comes in frozen and we thaw it and stock it or thaw and bake. Gone are the pre-made cakes, "specialty" desserts and even custom cakes at a couple of stores. Most people don't see Walmart as a quality option for deli and bakery items. My experience with the Walmart deli the couple of times I tried was semi dried out cheese and extremely salty sliced meats. I think Walmart should stick with the normal grocery aisles as well as the commercial bakery and deli items that any grocery would have. You can't have grocery without produce though. Even there Walmart's quality level isn't stellar but it is much better than it was in the past.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by Brian Lutz »

The former Kmart in Bellevue where the Neighborhood Market is now closed around 2001, and actually sat vacant for over a decade before being redeveloped. The retail space on the south side of the shopping center already existed when Kmart was open, and there was a gas station on the corner of 148th and Main, but that closed shortly after the Kmart did, was eventually demolished and sat empty for quite a while even after the rest of the center was redeveloped, presumably due to a need for environmental cleanup.

Originally after the Kmart closed Costco actually leased the site for some sort of a grocery-focused concept store, but abandoned their plans because Kelsey Creek runs under the parking lot in a culvert, and under environmental regulations at the time any redevelopment of the site would have required the creek to be uncovered and restored, which would have been very costly (I saw an estimate of around $7 million) and wouldn't have left enough usable space for Costco's purposes. Eventually a developer was able to get a lot of the requirements waived by making about $600k in improvements to other parts of the creek and was able to redevelop the former Kmart store into the Walmart Neighborhood Market and an LA Fitness health club, and was also able to build the additional retail on the Northwest corner of the property.
SamSpade wrote: April 6th, 2022, 2:14 pm I can also say there really isn't any wide-open land to build a new store on the "Seattle eastside" so I guess other than pickup and delivery from the NM, they've decided to leave.
There are also existing Walmart locations in Renton and Lynnwood just off I-405 so I assume people will shop at one of those if they need a Walmart. They aren't exactly next door, but they are still reasonably close.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by storewanderer »

I find in general these "irregular" Wal Marts don't seem to work. I think it is for a variety of reasons. First, a large segment of the residents of these areas did not want Wal Mart in the first place. So Wal Mart noses around and finds an old undersized/irregular space and opens anyway. They open an inferior store because it is undersized and lacking SKUs. This upsets the segment of residents who may actually like Wal Mart because the store is inferior to the full size Wal Mart they can drive 10 miles to. Then the operating cost in the location is likely higher than usual for Wal Mart due to higher lease, etc. It just seems like a lose-lose situation. Especially in an area with a heavy Fred Meyer presence.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote: April 6th, 2022, 11:42 pm I find in general these "irregular" Wal Marts don't seem to work. I think it is for a variety of reasons. First, a large segment of the residents of these areas did not want Wal Mart in the first place. So Wal Mart noses around and finds an old undersized/irregular space and opens anyway. They open an inferior store because it is undersized and lacking SKUs. This upsets the segment of residents who may actually like Wal Mart because the store is inferior to the full size Wal Mart they can drive 10 miles to. Then the operating cost in the location is likely higher than usual for Wal Mart due to higher lease, etc. It just seems like a lose-lose situation. Especially in an area with a heavy Fred Meyer presence.
I kinda wonder what will happen to the Walmart they opened at Delta Park, in a small, existing building with an odd layout. By far the worst Walmart I have seen in the Portland area. The non-supercenter store in Hazel Dell in Vancouver, just to the north, is actually larger.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by babs »

Brian Lutz wrote: April 6th, 2022, 3:02 pm
Originally after the Kmart closed Costco actually leased the site for some sort of a grocery-focused concept store, but abandoned their plans because Kelsey Creek runs under the parking lot in a culvert, and under environmental regulations at the time any redevelopment of the site would have required the creek to be uncovered and restored, which would have been very costly (I saw an estimate of around $7 million) and wouldn't have left enough usable space for Costco's purposes. Eventually a developer was able to get a lot of the requirements waived by making about $600k in improvements to other parts of the creek and was able to redevelop the former Kmart store into the Walmart Neighborhood Market and an LA Fitness health club, and was also able to build the additional retail on the Northwest corner of the property.
Costco abandoned the Costco Fresh concept not due to any issues with the site. Jim Sinegal felt the company was losing focusing it's core business when his best employees were working on a grocery and home concepts. There might have been environmental issues with the site but that's not why they ditched the food concept.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by babs »

Super S wrote: April 7th, 2022, 6:58 am
storewanderer wrote: April 6th, 2022, 11:42 pm I find in general these "irregular" Wal Marts don't seem to work. I think it is for a variety of reasons. First, a large segment of the residents of these areas did not want Wal Mart in the first place. So Wal Mart noses around and finds an old undersized/irregular space and opens anyway. They open an inferior store because it is undersized and lacking SKUs. This upsets the segment of residents who may actually like Wal Mart because the store is inferior to the full size Wal Mart they can drive 10 miles to. Then the operating cost in the location is likely higher than usual for Wal Mart due to higher lease, etc. It just seems like a lose-lose situation. Especially in an area with a heavy Fred Meyer presence.
I kinda wonder what will happen to the Walmart they opened at Delta Park, in a small, existing building with an odd layout. By far the worst Walmart I have seen in the Portland area. The non-supercenter store in Hazel Dell in Vancouver, just to the north, is actually larger.
I haven't been to the Delta Park store recently but if they close it will be due to shoplifting and related crime. The times I have been there it has been very busy. There just aren't a lot of low priced stores in the area so it has its niche. I don't see them closing it unless theft has gotten that bad.

I think Walmart has basically given up on the Portland and Seattle markets. No new stores are in the works. They are not going after obvious new store locations. Existing stores, such as the Tigard store that have room for expansion, aren't being enlarged. They've gone through a ton of bruising battles that they thrown the towel in.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by marshd1000 »

Interestingly, way back before Walmart was open in the Pacific Northwest, they had tried to buy Fred Meyer but were rebuffed!
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by Alpha8472 »

I have noticed that it seems like Walmart customers are not spending as much as before. Now most people seem to be buying what they need such as just food. The items that are luxury or optional are not being put in their shopping carts. Walmart might not need huge stores as before. They just need a good selection of groceries. Why would Walmart want to spend money on expensive expansions when it will not bring in sales?

Many Neighborhood Markets in the San Francisco Bay Area do not have service deli or meat. There are prepackaged deli items, but very little hot food. You may see rotisserie chickens or a few packages of hot meat items, but not much else. Some bread and packaged Bakery items are all you see.
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Re: Walmart observations

Post by arizonaguy »

babs wrote: April 7th, 2022, 7:15 am
Super S wrote: April 7th, 2022, 6:58 am
storewanderer wrote: April 6th, 2022, 11:42 pm I find in general these "irregular" Wal Marts don't seem to work. I think it is for a variety of reasons. First, a large segment of the residents of these areas did not want Wal Mart in the first place. So Wal Mart noses around and finds an old undersized/irregular space and opens anyway. They open an inferior store because it is undersized and lacking SKUs. This upsets the segment of residents who may actually like Wal Mart because the store is inferior to the full size Wal Mart they can drive 10 miles to. Then the operating cost in the location is likely higher than usual for Wal Mart due to higher lease, etc. It just seems like a lose-lose situation. Especially in an area with a heavy Fred Meyer presence.
I kinda wonder what will happen to the Walmart they opened at Delta Park, in a small, existing building with an odd layout. By far the worst Walmart I have seen in the Portland area. The non-supercenter store in Hazel Dell in Vancouver, just to the north, is actually larger.
I haven't been to the Delta Park store recently but if they close it will be due to shoplifting and related crime. The times I have been there it has been very busy. There just aren't a lot of low priced stores in the area so it has its niche. I don't see them closing it unless theft has gotten that bad.

I think Walmart has basically given up on the Portland and Seattle markets. No new stores are in the works. They are not going after obvious new store locations. Existing stores, such as the Tigard store that have room for expansion, aren't being enlarged. They've gone through a ton of bruising battles that they thrown the towel in.
Walmart, to me, seemed more selective of real estate prior to 2005. It seems that their pre-2005 stores, for the most part, tend to do well and are well located (although some have had changing demographics do them in). After 2005 it seems that they decided to put stores wherever without much forethought to the locations as long as it would expand their trade area. These stores, especially in more urban or inner ring suburbs, have tended to underperform.

I don't think that they really are planning many, if any, new stores that aren't replacements for existing stores. The company's focus is 100% online at the moment. I'd imagine it might change in a few years but Wall Street and Walmart corporate have decided that they have enough brick and mortar presence at the moment.
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