Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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Alpha8472
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by Alpha8472 »

I have noticed that many stores and restaurants are having trouble keeping the thick plastic bags in stock. There is a shortage across the entire country. I have received thin bags at various stores and restaurants recently. Even Walmart is having trouble keeping thick plastic bags in stock. I feel bad for the small independent restaurants that might be fined for using thin bags in California.

The good news is that plastic bag manufacturers are switching to making medical gowns and PPE. That will help out greatly. A plastic bag ban would take away valuable manufacturing resources that are needed to help medical personnel and patients.

The legislature can extend the delay on the plastic bag ban. I assume that the legislature will do so unless they all want to be voted out by the voters at the next election. The vast majority of people hate bag bans and bag fees. The politicians need to listen to the voters or else the voters will get rid of them at the next opportunity.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by storewanderer »

Alpha8472 wrote: December 19th, 2020, 8:39 pm I have noticed that many stores and restaurants are having trouble keeping the thick plastic bags in stock. There is a shortage across the entire country. I have received thin bags at various stores and restaurants recently. I feel bad for the small independent restaurants that might be fined for using thin bags in California.


The legislature can extend the delay on the plastic bag ban. I assume that the legislature will do so unless they all want to be voted out by the voters at the next election. The vast majority of people hate bag bans and bag fees. The politicians need to listen to the voters or else the voters will get rid of them at the next opportunity.
In quite a bit of California, restaurants can still use the thin bags. It is only in some cities with their own city rules (such as San Francisco- but there are many more) where the restaurants in California cannot use thin plastic bags. In OR, nobody is supposed to use any thin bag at all. It is not at the top of my head how the WA law is written, but I think it is like OR where nobody - restaurants included - is allowed to use thin bags.

I just pay the bag fee. 10 cents for a super thick bag that is 6-10 times the thickness of a thin bag. I don't re-use it any differently than I do the thin bag (as a trash bag). Total waste, terrible for the environment, a loser for the store since except for the biggest chains, it costs above 10 cents they charge for it. The only winner is the plastic bag manufacturer.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by klkla »

Alpha8472 wrote: December 19th, 2020, 8:39 pm I have noticed that many stores and restaurants are having trouble keeping the thick plastic bags in stock. There is a shortage across the entire country
We must be hogging them up here in SoCal. In the last week I have gotten them at Stater Bros., Gelson's and Ralphs.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by storewanderer »

klkla wrote: December 20th, 2020, 5:42 pm
Alpha8472 wrote: December 19th, 2020, 8:39 pm I have noticed that many stores and restaurants are having trouble keeping the thick plastic bags in stock. There is a shortage across the entire country
We must be hogging them up here in SoCal. In the last week I have gotten them at Stater Bros., Gelson's and Ralphs.
The paper bag shortage and shortage of the thicker plastic bags is well documented due to the items described in the WA Governor's Proclamation. This is why we are seeing more of these bags imported as well.

My trips into NorCal in the past few weeks have seen all stores using the thick bags again, but this is only as of the past few weeks. Into November the biggest chains in scattered locations were still using thin bags.

Remember klkla- this WA bill is the one that gives money to the state's paper and pulp industry to build new plants in some rural parts of WA State to make more paper bags... so rushing into a bag ban and then forcing the chains into importing paper bags from China, as is currently happening in some CA chains, or from Vietman, as is happening in NY, since US sources cannot meet demand, would go counter to helping the paper and pulp industry in WA State. Typically once a product starts getting imported, it does not get made in the US again. There is more to this WA thin plastic bag ban than simply banning thin bags. WA as it is manufactures a lot of paper bags (I'm not sure they make any plastic ones).
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: December 20th, 2020, 8:16 pm Remember klkla- this WA bill is the one that gives money to the state's paper and pulp industry to build new plants in some rural parts of WA State to make more paper bags... so rushing into a bag ban and then forcing the chains into importing paper bags from China, as is currently happening in some CA chains, or from Vietman, as is happening in NY, since US sources cannot meet demand, would go counter to helping the paper and pulp industry in WA State. Typically once a product starts getting imported, it does not get made in the US again. There is more to this WA thin plastic bag ban than simply banning thin bags. WA as it is manufactures a lot of paper bags (I'm not sure they make any plastic ones).
Just to note - I have several USA made, a couple Portugal and at least one China, plus many with no indication at all. That's between CVS, Hannaford, Walgreens, Ocean State and Dollar General all here around Albany NY as a sampling of where NY bags may be coming from (the CVS in particular vary by sizes).
Other chains I don't have as 3 of these 5 are ones that don't charge for paper bags (as not required in NY unless the county/city OK'd it) and the other couple were just one time forgetting to bring a bag.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by Super S »

storewanderer wrote: December 20th, 2020, 8:16 pm
Remember klkla- this WA bill is the one that gives money to the state's paper and pulp industry to build new plants in some rural parts of WA State to make more paper bags... so rushing into a bag ban and then forcing the chains into importing paper bags from China, as is currently happening in some CA chains, or from Vietman, as is happening in NY, since US sources cannot meet demand, would go counter to helping the paper and pulp industry in WA State. Typically once a product starts getting imported, it does not get made in the US again. There is more to this WA thin plastic bag ban than simply banning thin bags. WA as it is manufactures a lot of paper bags (I'm not sure they make any plastic ones).
The irony here is the fact that the governor is often mentioning climate change and seems to be blocking many other proposed manufacturing plants, making it unlikely that new plants will be built.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by storewanderer »

Super S wrote: December 21st, 2020, 12:36 pm
The irony here is the fact that the governor is often mentioning climate change and seems to be blocking many other proposed manufacturing plants, making it unlikely that new plants will be built.
Hopefully this will be an exception and they will actually build the plants. Maybe development of the plants in the more rural areas will go through more easily? Even if the plants were not used long term for paper bags (since the real intention of all these laws is to force reusable bags), they could be reformatted to other similar paper and pulp industry uses (boxes, etc.).

Obviously I was not in favor of this law to begin with, but this added wrinkle in the WA law to build plants for paper bags, I did like.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by Super S »

The thing I am curious about is how this is going to affect WinCo's "bag your own" business model. I have not visited a WinCo in an area where a bag ban is already in place, but will say that the current setup has bags at the end of the checkstands and is not really feasible for cashiers to keep these in a locked area. Also, cleanliness comes in to question if there isn't an employee constantly wiping down the bagging areas where people bring bags with questionable cleanliness from home to use. I can see situations where arguments will rise over this in the stores. WinCo does not always have adequate front end staffing as it is, and this is going to cause lines to move even slower.

I don't really like shopping online, but got to wondering if the stores doing online ordering/curbside pickup are going to automatically bag your purchases and charge for those bags. You can't really bring your own when calling ahead for pickup.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by storewanderer »

Super S wrote: December 22nd, 2020, 9:59 am The thing I am curious about is how this is going to affect WinCo's "bag your own" business model. I have not visited a WinCo in an area where a bag ban is already in place, but will say that the current setup has bags at the end of the checkstands and is not really feasible for cashiers to keep these in a locked area. Also, cleanliness comes in to question if there isn't an employee constantly wiping down the bagging areas where people bring bags with questionable cleanliness from home to use. I can see situations where arguments will rise over this in the stores. WinCo does not always have adequate front end staffing as it is, and this is going to cause lines to move even slower.

I don't really like shopping online, but got to wondering if the stores doing online ordering/curbside pickup are going to automatically bag your purchases and charge for those bags. You can't really bring your own when calling ahead for pickup.
At the WinCo locations I have been to they sell you the bag and send the bags down the line with your items to bag. So you need to predict how many bags you are using before you bag/before you pay. At self checkout was the worst as they had no bags there at all and you had to flag down an employee and ask them for a bag (they would make sure you actually charged yourself for the bag). This was pre-COVID. Not sure if anything has changed.

I have been to other self bagging stores where the bags are still down at the end of the line to take, but the cashier will ask you how many bags you need before you pay/before you bag and charge you accordingly. So if you misestimate, I am not sure what happens there (probably nothing).

At other stores most have bags on the self checkout for customers to use and charge themself for with a bag count prompt before the total/pay screen. I have watched multiple customers not charge themself both in the US and also up in Canada but I think most customers do charge themself.

At stores that do pick-up, they automatically charge you for the number of bags used. In the case of Target if you order pick-up they automatically charge you a bag fee equal to the fee for 10 bags then say they will adjust it based on the actual number of bags used, so if you reject their bag they will adjust it to 0 and the fee will disappear. Others like Safeway they just say the total does not include bag fees so that will be added to your total cost. However you can ask them at pick up to unload all of the items into your vehicle without bags and then no bag fee would be assessed.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by BillyGr »

Surprising some of those pick up options haven't just gotten plastic bins to use. It would be easier for the shopper to put items in one of those, and then customers could choose to have them unloaded into the car or take them home in that bin (for a fee, which could easily be refundable if you return the empty ones the next time you order, like returning bottles for a deposit in many states - they could then clean them (easier than a bag) and use for another order).
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