Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by Bagels »

The graphics package look similar to what they're using in their upscale stores. From looking at various pictures online, it's been within only the last year or two that ACME has adapted the standard Albertsons graphics package -- even in 2019, some locations were still using the Supervalu-era graphics package.

One noteworthy point from the article: its starting wage is $9/hour, a buck less than the competition.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: December 5th, 2020, 1:14 pm

One noteworthy point from the article: its starting wage is $9/hour, a buck less than the competition.
They are citing the union agreement as the reason for this starting wage. Okay- so- you go work there. You start at this $9/hr union wage (in a big city- unbelievable), plus you have to pay union dues out of it. It you stick around for a while (likely less than a year) and get full time hours and move up the wage bracket you will make more working there long term.

Isn't Target paying $15/hr minimum and Wal Mart at $12/hr minimum now? Wal Mart's minimum was $11/hr starting in 2018.

It is no wonder these Union grocers have operational and execution issues- they are paying below what discount stores pay for starting employees... why are the prices so high, given they are paying lower wages?
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by klkla »

storewanderer wrote: December 5th, 2020, 10:45 pmwhy are the prices so high, given they are paying lower wages?
Because they have added a lot of debt as a result of their leveraged buyout and acquisitions of competitors.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by SamSpade »

storewanderer wrote: December 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm It is no wonder these Union grocers have operational and execution issues- they are paying below what discount stores pay for starting employees... why are the prices so high, given they are paying lower wages?
Or why they'd install robot "employee" Sally to make your salad for you?

In visiting Philadelphia, I was struck by low priced restaurant dining but looked into how it came at a cost. The state's Republican led legislature banned local minimum wages and refuses to raise above the federal standard. Which... Is... From... 2009.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by storewanderer »

SamSpade wrote: December 6th, 2020, 10:10 am
storewanderer wrote: December 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm It is no wonder these Union grocers have operational and execution issues- they are paying below what discount stores pay for starting employees... why are the prices so high, given they are paying lower wages?
Or why they'd install robot "employee" Sally to make your salad for you?

In visiting Philadelphia, I was struck by low priced restaurant dining but looked into how it came at a cost. The state's Republican led legislature banned local minimum wages and refuses to raise above the federal standard. Which... Is... From... 2009.
There is nothing that prevents businesses from paying above minimum wage. And many employers are doing just that. As evidenced by what Wal Mart, Target, Amazon, etc. are all doing- paying significantly above minimum wage to start.

Let the employers that keep paying minimum wage do so- they will get what they pay for- in terms of quality of labor. And their operation will suffer as a result. And customers will go elsewhere to better run businesses that pay their employees higher wages, which will in turn add employment at those better run businesses at the higher wages.

I am curious how well run a store will be that is paying $9/hr for starting employees in a downtown of a major city. To be fair the previous occupant paying $10/hr probably wasn't much of a difference. I wonder how much on-campus jobs pay... probably... more than either amount. For a student working part time they certainly would not gravitate to a $9/hr store job if they could find an on-campus job (which would be more convenient, more flexible hours working around class schedule, etc.) that I am sure pays more than $9/hr.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: December 6th, 2020, 10:17 am
SamSpade wrote: December 6th, 2020, 10:10 am
storewanderer wrote: December 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm It is no wonder these Union grocers have operational and execution issues- they are paying below what discount stores pay for starting employees... why are the prices so high, given they are paying lower wages?
Or why they'd install robot "employee" Sally to make your salad for you?

In visiting Philadelphia, I was struck by low priced restaurant dining but looked into how it came at a cost. The state's Republican led legislature banned local minimum wages and refuses to raise above the federal standard. Which... Is... From... 2009.
There is nothing that prevents businesses from paying above minimum wage. And many employers are doing just that. As evidenced by what Wal Mart, Target, Amazon, etc. are all doing- paying significantly above minimum wage to start.

Let the employers that keep paying minimum wage do so- they will get what they pay for- in terms of quality of labor. And their operation will suffer as a result. And customers will go elsewhere to better run businesses that pay their employees higher wages, which will in turn add employment at those better run businesses at the higher wages.

I am curious how well run a store will be that is paying $9/hr for starting employees in a downtown of a major city. To be fair the previous occupant paying $10/hr probably wasn't much of a difference. I wonder how much on-campus jobs pay... probably... more than either amount. For a student working part time they certainly would not gravitate to a $9/hr store job if they could find an on-campus job (which would be more convenient, more flexible hours working around class schedule, etc.) that I am sure pays more than $9/hr.
I assume that the $9/hr. is things like bagging for teenagers and disabled adults.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: December 6th, 2020, 10:17 am
SamSpade wrote: December 6th, 2020, 10:10 am
storewanderer wrote: December 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm It is no wonder these Union grocers have operational and execution issues- they are paying below what discount stores pay for starting employees... why are the prices so high, given they are paying lower wages?
Or why they'd install robot "employee" Sally to make your salad for you?

In visiting Philadelphia, I was struck by low priced restaurant dining but looked into how it came at a cost. The state's Republican led legislature banned local minimum wages and refuses to raise above the federal standard. Which... Is... From... 2009.
There is nothing that prevents businesses from paying above minimum wage. And many employers are doing just that. As evidenced by what Wal Mart, Target, Amazon, etc. are all doing- paying significantly above minimum wage to start.

Let the employers that keep paying minimum wage do so- they will get what they pay for- in terms of quality of labor. And their operation will suffer as a result. And customers will go elsewhere to better run businesses that pay their employees higher wages, which will in turn add employment at those better run businesses at the higher wages.

I am curious how well run a store will be that is paying $9/hr for starting employees in a downtown of a major city. To be fair the previous occupant paying $10/hr probably wasn't much of a difference. I wonder how much on-campus jobs pay... probably... more than either amount. For a student working part time they certainly would not gravitate to a $9/hr store job if they could find an on-campus job (which would be more convenient, more flexible hours working around class schedule, etc.) that I am sure pays more than $9/hr.
I can't even fathom parsing out some of your broad stroke posits above.

So I guess I will let them stand or hope someone else breaks it down.

:(
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by mbz321 »

storewanderer wrote: December 5th, 2020, 10:45 pm
They are citing the union agreement as the reason for this starting wage. Okay- so- you go work there. You start at this $9/hr union wage (in a big city- unbelievable), plus you have to pay union dues out of it. It you stick around for a while (likely less than a year) and get full time hours and move up the wage bracket you will make more working there long term.

Isn't Target paying $15/hr minimum and Wal Mart at $12/hr minimum now? Wal Mart's minimum was $11/hr starting in 2018.

It is no wonder these Union grocers have operational and execution issues- they are paying below what discount stores pay for starting employees... why are the prices so high, given they are paying lower wages?

Funny this comes up. I live in the Philly suburbs, and I have seen a lot of ads on Facebook and such from the grocery Union saying 'don't shop at Lidl/Aldi (who have each opened up a new location in the City in the last few weeks)' as Acme/Shoprite support good paying jobs in the community, etc. Yeah, maybe for those that have been there 30 years and are grandfathered into various benefits, but anyone that is new is making peanuts, not to mention the sky high prices for everyone (Acme is just awful...ShopRite is significantly lower, but still higher than non-union operators).
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: December 7th, 2020, 5:52 am
I can't even fathom parsing out some of your broad stroke posits above.

So I guess I will let them stand or hope someone else breaks it down.

:(


So, do you think it is okay that the union wage of $9/hr is acceptable in a large city and how can you run a quality operation with that wage? What if the unionized chain is having trouble staffing a specific location due to the wage being too low- can they pay a higher wage, or are they bound by this lowball union agreement at $9/hr to start period? When non-union competitors Target and Amazon are at $15/hr and Wal Mart is at $11 or $12/hr?

I'm pretty sure Lidl and Aldi start at more than $9/hr too- but perhaps someone can check.

Of course we can say the reason the union agreement is only $9/hr is because they had to agree to lower wages so the chains could compete better with the non-union competitors. But if the non-union competitors are paying (significantly) more, that sort of turns that whole argument upside down...
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: December 7th, 2020, 10:31 pm
veteran+ wrote: December 7th, 2020, 5:52 am
I can't even fathom parsing out some of your broad stroke posits above.

So I guess I will let them stand or hope someone else breaks it down.

:(


So, do you think it is okay that the union wage of $9/hr is acceptable in a large city and how can you run a quality operation with that wage? What if the unionized chain is having trouble staffing a specific location due to the wage being too low- can they pay a higher wage, or are they bound by this lowball union agreement at $9/hr to start period? When non-union competitors Target and Amazon are at $15/hr and Wal Mart is at $11 or $12/hr?

I'm pretty sure Lidl and Aldi start at more than $9/hr too- but perhaps someone can check.

Of course we can say the reason the union agreement is only $9/hr is because they had to agree to lower wages so the chains could compete better with the non-union competitors. But if the non-union competitors are paying (significantly) more, that sort of turns that whole argument upside down...
I don't think it's a union issue. Remember, it STARTS at $9, if we were to do checks on number of hours, part time/full time, what employees actually earn what, the answer becomes more blurred. And comparing Amazon to ACME isn't a good one, as Amazon has all these horror stories about people who work there, and neither Target or Walmart have things like perishable departments (Walmart's bakery consists of a lot of stuff shipped in, their deli is largely deep-fried stuff, etc., no meat counter), nor dedicated bagger positions (which is probably where the $9 comes in).
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