Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: December 7th, 2020, 10:31 pm
veteran+ wrote: December 7th, 2020, 5:52 am
I can't even fathom parsing out some of your broad stroke posits above.

So I guess I will let them stand or hope someone else breaks it down.

:(


So, do you think it is okay that the union wage of $9/hr is acceptable in a large city and how can you run a quality operation with that wage? What if the unionized chain is having trouble staffing a specific location due to the wage being too low- can they pay a higher wage, or are they bound by this lowball union agreement at $9/hr to start period? When non-union competitors Target and Amazon are at $15/hr and Wal Mart is at $11 or $12/hr?

I'm pretty sure Lidl and Aldi start at more than $9/hr too- but perhaps someone can check.

Of course we can say the reason the union agreement is only $9/hr is because they had to agree to lower wages so the chains could compete better with the non-union competitors. But if the non-union competitors are paying (significantly) more, that sort of turns that whole argument upside down...
Of course not!

I despise the 2 tier union rate garbage.

I have a problem the way you consistently characterize the Union issue without offering an historic root cause analysis of why it has degraded to its present state. You also fail to mention how State Labor Commissioners (most of them)have been diminished to the point of not functioning.

Unions are a joke today and there are myriad reasons why and most of those reasons are not the popularly distributed ones like Union corruption, etc. (which there was and that was used to destroy them by supply sided economists).

I will stop here because we are NOT supposed to get political.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by TW-Upstate NY »

I remember as a kid growing up in NE Pa. and we shopped at Acme and A+P a lot. Don't remember too much from those early years but the one thing I do recall is that every time we'd go to those stores, it was always the same faces working there-year after year. And you know that has an effect on somebody if they see that early on in life and they start to think that's how it's supposed to be and that's how it is in every facet of life. I mean I saw the same thing in school everyday-same teachers were there year after year and sometimes, especially in high school, you'd have them for different classes each year. My Father had the same job from when I was born (well before that actually) until when he retired right before I graduated high school. I went to a public college and the professors and instructors became familiar to me throughout that phase of my life. Then time came for me to get a "real" job and I ended up at the PO where I worked for the same boss for close to 24 years. That was my experience growing up and really throughout my work life now that I'm retired. It's the lens through which I view the world. Now what did/do all those things I've mentioned have in common? They were all/are in one way or another derived from Unions and the stability they provide. Let me rephrase that, the stability they provided because that way of life is gone forever and to this older middle aged individual it's beyond unnerving. Bottom line is this-$9.00/hr. ain't gonna cut it-especially in an age where a "designer" cup of coffee can easily set you back close to that amount or more. It's all about "churn and burn" and it's not getting any better-quite the contrary.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: December 8th, 2020, 6:00 am
Of course not!

I despise the 2 tier union rate garbage.

I have a problem the way you consistently characterize the Union issue without offering an historic root cause analysis of why it has degraded to its present state. You also fail to mention how State Labor Commissioners (most of them)have been diminished to the point of not functioning.

Unions are a joke today and there are myriad reasons why and most of those reasons are not the popularly distributed ones like Union corruption, etc. (which there was and that was used to destroy them by supply sided economists).

I will stop here because we are NOT supposed to get political.
Smiths has a "job fair" sign posted in a location I went into this week. This is in Gardnerville, NV (rural). This sign actually lists the wages they start the positions at. This store is non-union except for some of the meat department may be covered under some contract. The lowest starting wage posted was courtesy clerk at 11.25/hr; cashiers around the high 12's, meat wrappers around $15/hr. I didn't catch the rest of the sign, but the listed wages were in the low-mid teens.

I find it unreal that a large chain grocer is paying employees more in rural Nevada to start, than a large chain grocer would pay in a big city like Philadelphia.

I already said why the union wage scale deteriorated- it was due to the chains negotiating lower wages "to compete with lower wage Wal Mart, Target, and other non-union grocers" who were back in the 90's and 00's paying literally half the wage of the union grocers and hiring more part time/no benefit staff, compared to the much higher wages and more highly weighted full time employees with a good benefits package at the unionized grocers. I do think there are still some unionized grocers out there who negotiate a pay scale that is reasonable to attract and retain committed employees (I highly doubt $9/hr in Philadelphia accomplishes that). I don't know who in the legal and finance areas is feeding the desired wages for the chain representatives in these union negotiations to try and get, but they must be clueless as to what impact too low of a starting wage has on the quality of the operation.
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by veteran+ »

The Union's dysfunction is way deeper than that.

It's an historical disintegration resulting in the current joke that it is. Corporate America couldn't be more happier than they are today. And when THEY are happy...............consumers and employees always win (joking of course).

In honor and respect for our host I will refrain from mentioning the well documented political reasons for the Union's current state of affairs.

I do not think Unions will ever rise again and I wonder if State Labor Commissioners (along with the Federal version) will ever have the power they need to really do their job.

Employees are on their own. Perhaps consumers will fair better?
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Re: Fresh Grocer in Philadelphia closing

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: December 10th, 2020, 4:56 am The Union's dysfunction is way deeper than that.

It's an historical disintegration resulting in the current joke that it is. Corporate America couldn't be more happier than they are today. And when THEY are happy...............consumers and employees always win (joking of course).

In honor and respect for our host I will refrain from mentioning the well documented political reasons for the Union's current state of affairs.

I do not think Unions will ever rise again and I wonder if State Labor Commissioners (along with the Federal version) will ever have the power they need to really do their job.

Employees are on their own. Perhaps consumers will fair better?
And then- to go back to this thread's specific store topic- as a result of the labor situation (though I am sure they say it is due to COVID) the next thing you get is things like the "salad making robot." Well, someone still has to clean and maintain that machine.
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