WD Issues

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Re: WD Issues

Post by cjd »

pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2021, 3:51 amBetween the Baton Rouge and New Orleans market, Winn-Dixie and Albertsons have both lost stores, the former faring the worse.

For the past few years, Albertsons (despite some store pruning) has been rolling out some attractive new-builds with nice features. Winn-Dixie's biggest "new openings" from what I can see is moving into Lucky's Market spaces, which are neither standard size stores or particularly upscale.
Lucky's Market spaces may not be standard sized or particularly upscale, but they are certainly a lot newer and more modern than many of WD's own locations. I think a few of those are what these newer, smaller WD stores are going into.

It also appears WD is trying to brand itself as more of Florida's supermarket in their newer openings. So I think they may be trying to focus more on their roots, if it means anything.

I would be interested to know if in other states what exactly some of the oldest WD stores are like, and just how old they are. I'm pretty sure the oldest stores remaining open in Florida either have the "cheap white" early 2000s decor or they have the 90s pastel and neon Marketplace decor. I don't believe there are any remaining stores with 80s chrome and neon. In AL I'm pretty sure I've heard of one or two stores closing in last 5 years, that still had some kind of 70s or early 80s decor that predated even the 80s chrome and neon, and had never been updated up until closing.

When I was a kid in the early 90s where we lived, we would shop at a WD that had been built about 1973 and seemed to have the original decor. I remember these funky green tile backsplashes in the bakery and green walls in produce with these plastic 70s-mod curvy produce displays.

The meat dept had the Beef People sign with a faceless man in a cowboy hat (similar to the 80s decor). There was also this same man but in a baker's hat in the bakery. That store was replaced in 1996 by a new Marketplace store, having the pastel and neon decor.

That store later was damaged by hurricanes and reopened with a very rare decor in 2005 that resembled the "cheap white" decor but was a lot more colorful and slightly more upscale. That style of decor no longer exists, it was only used in the handful of new build WD stores that were built from 2000 up until the 2005 bankruptcy. So it was very rare to begin with and all of those stores have since been updated to newer styles.

In the town I live in now, we had one mid 70s WD which also had the funky tiled floors and backsplashes in the bakery. But it had been updated to the chrome and neon decor in the 80s. It closed in the early 2000s. On the other side of town, the WD was built in the early 80s with chrome and neon decor. That got the cheap white update in about 2003, and then the full late 2000s remodel in late 2008.

WD also acquired the Sweetbay which remained the same up until about two years ago when it got the red and white remodel, which was very minimalistic.

A lot of the smaller towns in Florida do not have a Publix, only a Save A Lot and Walmart. When WD acquired Sweetbay they would usually operate both stores in these towns simultaneously at first but the FTC ruled that in some of these towns that there was not enough competition for WD to trade fairly. So in general, WD would close their original store and continue to operate the Sweetbay. (Probably because Sweetbay stores were almost always more up to date than WD's existing stores, which largely dated to the 90s Marketplace era in these towns).

It also didn't make sense from a logistical standpoint to operate both stores as they were essentially competing with themselves. I know in one town where the two existed right across the block from each other, and both operated for quite a few months!

I know in the town south of me, the existing WD was in the town proper but the Sweetbay was about 10 minutes south, in what I consider basically to be "middle of nowhereville". But there is a big retirement and RV park right behind it. WD again ended up closing its in town store and kept the former Sweetbay. This has given Publix nearly total dominance in that town with only a Save A Lot in the former WD as competition. Yet the WD also gets a lot of business because it's more convenient for that retirement community and also there's nothing on that end of town except Dollar General. LOL
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Re: WD Issues

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote: January 31st, 2021, 3:51 am
cjd wrote: January 30th, 2021, 9:06 am Lately WD has been coming out with a concept of new, smaller stores, which have opened in a few locations in FL. These stores also have a new decor package which ties into the red and white package but is more colorful with greens, and other colors.

I'm guessing this will be yet another one of WD's fads (the first one being the transformational stores of the early 2010s) and that this won't really take off, and be shelved within about 5 years. The stores themselves will remain, but it won't become a large model for the chain.

WD has much inconsistency among their stores. Some stores are still open with the early 2000s "cheap white" remodels which were mainly quick redos of their 80s chrome and neon interior stores which had not been touched up until that point. A lot of these stores have since closed however.

Then they have the "late 2000s" remodels which still look pretty nice and were WD's first real attempt starting in 2008 to remodel all their stores after emerging from bankruptcy in 2006. These all got a thorough top to bottom remodel, although I always thought these stores looked a bit dated even when new, because some of the pastel colors used. Most of these stores were 80s build stores that previously had the cheap white remodel or are stores that originally were built with either the pastel or later yellow/teal Marketplace interiors in the 90s.

That was followed in the late 2000s/early 2010s by the Transformational stores. Most of these were opened in key markets where competition was high, and WD pumped a lot of money into these remodels. Typically these were 90s Marketplace stores, or in some cases were acquired from Publix. These stores today still look good, and WD has even redone a few of them with the newer red decor and black tile backsplashes in the service departments.

After Bi-Lo bought WD the transformational stores wound to a halt. Bi-Lo did a few WD remodels which were more on the scale of the "late 2000s" remodels, mostly with a green, black and beige interior and incorporating some elements of the Transformational concept. These stores look good, but not many were done.

By the mid 2010s WD/Bi-Lo rolled out the red decor. Some of these redos are pretty cheap, particularly when WD implemented this decor into the Sweetbay stores they acquired in 2013. Lately the red remodels have gotten a bit more substantial, and more colorful, which sort of spun off into the decor I mentioned at the start of this post.

And if that isn't enough, the Sweetbay stores WD acquired are an entirely other category! WD did not do much to these stores other than any sprucing up that needed to be done and a few minor decor and equipment changes. They did not want to alienate Sweetbay shoppers, therefore they did not even move product aisles around. Most of these stores had been renovated after 2004-2006 when Kash N Karry transitioned to Sweetbay, and in the early 2000s under Kash N Karry, so they weren't all that dated, but weren't up to Publix modernity either. There were even a few Sweetbays that were being built right up until WD bought the chain, and these also have a different decor themselves and a very modern layout.

So WD is really just a conglomeration of all sorts of stores with all kinds of decors, ranging from original build WD stores and Sweetbay acquired stores.

Also this is just my experience from FL stores, things may be even more different in other states. I think some of the LA and AL stores may be less up to date.
Louisiana cut most of its stores west of the Mississippi River several years ago (selling them to Brookshire, which converted them to Super 1), so now Winn-Dixie's western expansion only goes to Baton Rouge instead of around Lafayette. From what I could tell, and wnetmacman may be able to chime in, Rouses' entry into Baton Rouge (acquiring stores from a local chain but also some new builds) has put some pressure on Winn-Dixie, which previously largely had to fend off Albertsons and independents (and of course Walmart Neighborhood Market)...but then again, New Orleans has had Winn-Dixie survive for decades as A&P drove out Albertsons (and those A&P stores are now Rouses), and it had one of those late-2000s "transformational" stores (which is not getting any newer).

Between the Baton Rouge and New Orleans market, Winn-Dixie and Albertsons have both lost stores, the former faring the worse.

For the past few years, Albertsons (despite some store pruning) has been rolling out some attractive new-builds with nice features. Winn-Dixie's biggest "new openings" from what I can see is moving into Lucky's Market spaces, which are neither standard size stores or particularly upscale.
That is correct. Current Louisiana WD count is 29, a far cry from the over 100 it was in 1993 when I first moved to this state. WD has been remodeling the remaining stores in Louisiana, but they don't exactly number high in double digits. I was over near New Orleans a couple of months ago and saw the new Red decor in a store in Chalmette; it was merely lipstick upon a pig. The store had mostly the same old WD fixtures and the same old WD gimmicks going on.

The Baton Rouge stores (which only number 6 if you count the suburbs, 3 if not) aren't that updated, and compared to Rouses, Albertsons and Walmart still feel dated. Rouses bought the LeBlanc's chain of stores that finally got them into the city, and they've built a couple more in better locations than WD. Walmart is everywhere in BR, and while Albertsons isn't, the remaining stores still pack a wallop and are better looking than WD's stores are.

Rouses didn't take every A&P, just the profitable ones. I went to one a few years ago, and you really couldn't tell it had ever been anything but Rouses. The 2 WD transformational stores in Covington and New Orleans are still open, but, well, they're also still WD.
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Re: WD Issues

Post by pseudo3d »

One thing I've noticed about Winn-Dixie is, and this could just be the overall nature of the stores and a lack of effort since the Marketplace days, but most of the chains out there (Kroger, Albertsons, H-E-B, Publix, etc.) have developed their stores to be a jack of all trades, you can have a somewhat dated/basic store in a working class area, and another with the same name in a much nicer part of town (larger, with more upscale selections, etc.). Winn-Dixie doesn't really have that. They never made any stores to fit into nice neighborhoods and got stuck with middle-of-the-road stores, and even today, Winn-Dixie is the "best" of the three brands they use in their market areas. I don't think SEG is really capable of making a "better" store that's a grade above Winn-Dixie, though.
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Re: WD Issues

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote: February 8th, 2021, 4:59 am One thing I've noticed about Winn-Dixie is, and this could just be the overall nature of the stores and a lack of effort since the Marketplace days, but most of the chains out there (Kroger, Albertsons, H-E-B, Publix, etc.) have developed their stores to be a jack of all trades, you can have a somewhat dated/basic store in a working class area, and another with the same name in a much nicer part of town (larger, with more upscale selections, etc.). Winn-Dixie doesn't really have that. They never made any stores to fit into nice neighborhoods and got stuck with middle-of-the-road stores, and even today, Winn-Dixie is the "best" of the three brands they use in their market areas. I don't think SEG is really capable of making a "better" store that's a grade above Winn-Dixie, though.
The problem with WD doing the 'jack of all trades' stores was that they only had one model at a time. Initially, they built small supermarkets. Then they added the Deli-Bakery. Then Marketplace. There is no variety of store formats, other than leftovers from previous eras. And I hate leftovers. However, in the markets where the stores were abandoned or sold, the sold stores seem to do better under new operators. I know all but one WD that Brookshire got a couple of years ago are doing extremely well, since their prices are so much lower than WD was, and the stores are cleaner now.
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Re: WD Issues

Post by storewanderer »

wnetmacman wrote: February 8th, 2021, 6:52 pm
pseudo3d wrote: February 8th, 2021, 4:59 am One thing I've noticed about Winn-Dixie is, and this could just be the overall nature of the stores and a lack of effort since the Marketplace days, but most of the chains out there (Kroger, Albertsons, H-E-B, Publix, etc.) have developed their stores to be a jack of all trades, you can have a somewhat dated/basic store in a working class area, and another with the same name in a much nicer part of town (larger, with more upscale selections, etc.). Winn-Dixie doesn't really have that. They never made any stores to fit into nice neighborhoods and got stuck with middle-of-the-road stores, and even today, Winn-Dixie is the "best" of the three brands they use in their market areas. I don't think SEG is really capable of making a "better" store that's a grade above Winn-Dixie, though.
The problem with WD doing the 'jack of all trades' stores was that they only had one model at a time. Initially, they built small supermarkets. Then they added the Deli-Bakery. Then Marketplace. There is no variety of store formats, other than leftovers from previous eras. And I hate leftovers. However, in the markets where the stores were abandoned or sold, the sold stores seem to do better under new operators. I know all but one WD that Brookshire got a couple of years ago are doing extremely well, since their prices are so much lower than WD was, and the stores are cleaner now.
Winn Dixie in Key Biscanye, FL is a nice store by any measure and has more upscale features and merchandising. Different center store merchandising than I have seen by this chain- far more upscale products. It has beer on tap, had a squeezed juice machine, an on demand hot roll oven (that may be gone... seemed like a bit of a joke), larger hot food operation with things like fried bananas (maybe a FL thing?), sub bar, pizza bar, a good looking bakery, perfectly fresh meat and produce, and in general put out an offering that was well above expectations, and not really typical of the chain. High income area and no Publix there. Winn Dixie stepped up.
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Re: WD Issues

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storewanderer wrote: February 8th, 2021, 7:13 pm
wnetmacman wrote: February 8th, 2021, 6:52 pm
pseudo3d wrote: February 8th, 2021, 4:59 am One thing I've noticed about Winn-Dixie is, and this could just be the overall nature of the stores and a lack of effort since the Marketplace days, but most of the chains out there (Kroger, Albertsons, H-E-B, Publix, etc.) have developed their stores to be a jack of all trades, you can have a somewhat dated/basic store in a working class area, and another with the same name in a much nicer part of town (larger, with more upscale selections, etc.). Winn-Dixie doesn't really have that. They never made any stores to fit into nice neighborhoods and got stuck with middle-of-the-road stores, and even today, Winn-Dixie is the "best" of the three brands they use in their market areas. I don't think SEG is really capable of making a "better" store that's a grade above Winn-Dixie, though.
The problem with WD doing the 'jack of all trades' stores was that they only had one model at a time. Initially, they built small supermarkets. Then they added the Deli-Bakery. Then Marketplace. There is no variety of store formats, other than leftovers from previous eras. And I hate leftovers. However, in the markets where the stores were abandoned or sold, the sold stores seem to do better under new operators. I know all but one WD that Brookshire got a couple of years ago are doing extremely well, since their prices are so much lower than WD was, and the stores are cleaner now.
Winn Dixie in Key Biscanye, FL is a nice store by any measure and has more upscale features and merchandising. Different center store merchandising than I have seen by this chain- far more upscale products. It has beer on tap, had a squeezed juice machine, an on demand hot roll oven (that may be gone... seemed like a bit of a joke), larger hot food operation with things like fried bananas (maybe a FL thing?), sub bar, pizza bar, a good looking bakery, perfectly fresh meat and produce, and in general put out an offering that was well above expectations, and not really typical of the chain. High income area and no Publix there. Winn Dixie stepped up.
Yeah, fried plantains are a Cuban mainstay. The most popular is "platano maduro" (ripe plantains - very sweet). Secondly popular is "platano verde" (green plantains - starchy and potato-y taste).

They call bananas and plantains using the same word..............platanos.
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Re: WD Issues

Post by wnetmacman »

storewanderer wrote: February 8th, 2021, 7:13 pm Winn Dixie in Key Biscanye, FL is a nice store by any measure and has more upscale features and merchandising. Different center store merchandising than I have seen by this chain- far more upscale products. It has beer on tap, had a squeezed juice machine, an on demand hot roll oven (that may be gone... seemed like a bit of a joke), larger hot food operation with things like fried bananas (maybe a FL thing?), sub bar, pizza bar, a good looking bakery, perfectly fresh meat and produce, and in general put out an offering that was well above expectations, and not really typical of the chain. High income area and no Publix there. Winn Dixie stepped up.
If I wanted to write a book about WD, this type of experiment would be at the top of my list. They often remodel one or two stores nicely, or build a couple, but that's where the upgrades like them typically end. The vast majority of the store fleet continues to be neglected. While they've made a little progress recently, they haven't done nearly what they should be doing. When they sold off the 10 Louisiana stores in 2018 to Brookshire, all *but* one still had the Marketplace decor. From 1994. The one was only a cosmetic upgrade to the 2005-2007 pastel upgrades with no new equipment or departments. THIS is the problem; hundreds of stores, but only a few nice ones.
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Re: WD Issues

Post by storewanderer »

wnetmacman wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:22 pm
If I wanted to write a book about WD, this type of experiment would be at the top of my list. They often remodel one or two stores nicely, or build a couple, but that's where the upgrades like them typically end. The vast majority of the store fleet continues to be neglected. While they've made a little progress recently, they haven't done nearly what they should be doing. When they sold off the 10 Louisiana stores in 2018 to Brookshire, all *but* one still had the Marketplace decor. From 1994. The one was only a cosmetic upgrade to the 2005-2007 pastel upgrades with no new equipment or departments. THIS is the problem; hundreds of stores, but only a few nice ones.
It seems like in general WD in FL is a bit nicer than the rest of WD.

I remember looking at photos of those LA Stores when they announced the sale to Super 1 and they looked awful. I think most of WD in LA, AL, and probably GA is similar to that. They did have one nice store in Birmingham.
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Re: WD Issues

Post by cjd »

pseudo3d wrote: February 8th, 2021, 4:59 am One thing I've noticed about Winn-Dixie is, and this could just be the overall nature of the stores and a lack of effort since the Marketplace days, but most of the chains out there (Kroger, Albertsons, H-E-B, Publix, etc.) have developed their stores to be a jack of all trades, you can have a somewhat dated/basic store in a working class area, and another with the same name in a much nicer part of town (larger, with more upscale selections, etc.). Winn-Dixie doesn't really have that. They never made any stores to fit into nice neighborhoods and got stuck with middle-of-the-road stores, and even today, Winn-Dixie is the "best" of the three brands they use in their market areas. I don't think SEG is really capable of making a "better" store that's a grade above Winn-Dixie, though.
I think they do try to in some areas. Here in Florida, the Port Charlotte and Apopka stores are quite competitive as well as Sarasota. These are their transformational stores and I'd say the best of them could probably compete with Publix. Some of these stores, although only about 10 years old have already had decor and signage updates to the newest decor, which is a bit surprising.

They've also just opened some new style stores recently that have offerings that try to integrate more with the area They just opened one in Lakewood Ranch in the last month or so, and that's a very up and coming suburb that would probably be all for Publix.. It will be interesting to see how it does.

So I'd say W-D does definitely have some upmarket stores, but the problem is they are too few and far between. They have been trying to clean up their older stores and update them to the same new red decor in the last 5 years, but a quick repaint and signage change doesn't fix customer service or improve the offerings of these blase stores that make up much of their base.
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Re: WD Issues

Post by cjd »

wnetmacman wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:22 pm If I wanted to write a book about WD, this type of experiment would be at the top of my list. They often remodel one or two stores nicely, or build a couple, but that's where the upgrades like them typically end. The vast majority of the store fleet continues to be neglected. While they've made a little progress recently, they haven't done nearly what they should be doing. When they sold off the 10 Louisiana stores in 2018 to Brookshire, all *but* one still had the Marketplace decor. From 1994. The one was only a cosmetic upgrade to the 2005-2007 pastel upgrades with no new equipment or departments. THIS is the problem; hundreds of stores, but only a few nice ones.
If the pastel remodels are the ones I'm thinking of, these didn't start in Florida until late 2008-09 here. Most of the remodels like that here in FL were pretty nice and included all new flooring and bakery and deli equipment and refrigeration updates. There weren't any new departments, because most of them were just your typical 80s WD. But to me they were a nice step up, and certainly a lot nicer than the cheap white early 2000s redos, the majority of which were just a repaint and new aisle and dept signage.

I agree with you on this experiment. I remember when they were doing transformational remodels that the CEO actually said they were hoping having a store like this in the era would boost impressions even in their older stores. Although that doesn't make much sense to me. Having one really nice WD in the area and 5 so-so ones to me just makes that chain look like it can't afford to step up its game.
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