Acme Wynnewood closing

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TW-Upstate NY
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by TW-Upstate NY »

storewanderer wrote: July 5th, 2020, 12:11 am I am not sure buying A&P Stores was a great move for Acme.
The short answer is no it was not a great move. I think the entire motivation behind the purchase in the first place was to get back into Northern NJ which, save for a lone new-build store in Clifton (which eventually closed) they pretty much retreated from. Apparently, the big wigs had a collective case of amnesia as to why they got out of that marketing area in the first place. And to accomplish this, they ended up buying a lot of "junk" in that area and elsewhere which have not even come close to expectations. And don't get me started about some of the units they bought basically in the middle of nowhere in relation to their main trading area. Acme in Connecticut?!? Really?!? Hey corporate-how's that working out for you? Even their reemergence into New York state is questionable at best.
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by BillyGr »

TW-Upstate NY wrote: July 5th, 2020, 8:59 am
storewanderer wrote: July 5th, 2020, 12:11 am I am not sure buying A&P Stores was a great move for Acme.
The short answer is no it was not a great move. I think the entire motivation behind the purchase in the first place was to get back into Northern NJ which, save for a lone new-build store in Clifton (which eventually closed) they pretty much retreated from. Apparently, the big wigs had a collective case of amnesia as to why they got out of that marketing area in the first place. And to accomplish this, they ended up buying a lot of "junk" in that area and elsewhere which have not even come close to expectations. And don't get me started about some of the units they bought basically in the middle of nowhere in relation to their main trading area. Acme in Connecticut?!? Really?!? Hey corporate-how's that working out for you? Even their reemergence into New York state is questionable at best.
Though they have corporate "sibling' Shaw's in all the New England states (except CT, which they left a few years earlier), so perhaps that was part of the thinking of taking those NY & CT (and northern NJ) A&P locations, to sort of "re-connect" the existing Shaw's to the existing Acme footprint?

Also, some of the stores in NY were in towns where other chains weren't right there, so those probably do at least OK, just for the convenience factor (same thing goes for something like that Philadelphia store they also show in the article - a decent sized store that you often don't find in an urban area).
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by storewanderer »

I seem to recall Albertsons took a package bid on A&P's assets and in some cases they did not get every store they bid on if others came forward and outbid what they were going to pay. I believe Albertsons initially was trying to get A&P's banners as well but that didn't happen and that may be why the conversions to Acme happened. I am not sure how converting to Shaw's would have gone... since most of the acquired A&P Stores were in Acme territory I guess they decided to just go with that banner on the whole group.
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: July 5th, 2020, 7:33 pm I seem to recall Albertsons took a package bid on A&P's assets and in some cases they did not get every store they bid on if others came forward and outbid what they were going to pay. I believe Albertsons initially was trying to get A&P's banners as well but that didn't happen and that may be why the conversions to Acme happened. I am not sure how converting to Shaw's would have gone... since most of the acquired A&P Stores were in Acme territory I guess they decided to just go with that banner on the whole group.
Sorry if it read like that - I don't think they were ever thinking of using Shaw's on any of the stores. I was pointing out that since the corporation already had stores in 5 states in New England (with that name) and NJ/PA and south (with the Acme name), these stores (whatever name, though I think it was always mentioned as Acme buying them, not even mentioning the possibility of getting the use of the A&P names) would fill in the space (or at least some of it, as A&P's remaining locations in CT were limited) between the two existing batches on the map.
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by buckguy »

Acme and others did bid on packages. Acme's interest in returning to northern NJ (where A&P had been relative strong) was interesting given that they had retreated from there more than once. They had a DC in Kearny and tried a couple different formats in the 60s, without much success--I don't know when they made their original entry but I would guess in the 40s or 50s. Could have been even longer ago. They built a huge number of stores in the region again during the 90s, I believe (the Acme Style blog--still up but dormant has details buried somewhere) but began retreating not long after.

Wynnewood would have made sense to them because Acme always was well represented in the Main Line suburbs of Philly--their executives usually lived there in the old days and and it's the largest enclave of wealth in the Philadelphia area. They also kept some rather small stores going there for a long time--it can be difficult to build in older well-off suburbs. A 1956 store in Bryn Mawr made it into 2010s before getting a replacement.
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by mbz321 »

storewanderer wrote: July 4th, 2020, 11:57 am Acme's pricing isn't the best
That is quite the understatement. Besides an occasional decent loss-leader sale, Acme's prices are the absolute worst, even worse than Whole Foods when comparing similar items. It is absolutely mind-boggling as being part of one of the largest chains in the Nation that they can't do any better on price. Some items can be several dollars more than Walmart from my experiences. Even A&P (Pathmark/SuperFresh) had much better pricing, and they were pretty lousy towards the end. Also, Acme has a Hodgepodge of stores ranging from poor touchups over the years to, complete remodels, to stores that haven't been touched since the late 90's and early 2000's. One location nearest to me falls into the later category, and only seems to remain open due to being treated as a giant convenience store by multiple surrounding apartment complexes. As Wegmans has moved into the area the past few decades, Acme bails out almost immediately. Giant, whom I don't care for too much either, at least has nice, modern stores with low prices to boot (although pretty much nothing is done in-house any more, even prepackaged hoagies sold at the deli counter are trucked in from elsewhere). They have even been on a super remodeling/relocation spree as of late, replacing some of the Genuardi's locations they acquired (which, IMO, has been a bit of a waste as many locations were barely 20 years old and still in excellent shape). Of course Acme is Union which doesn't help them too much, but so is ShopRite, which has much better everyday prices (not Wegmans or Giant level, but not awful either) and amazing sales.
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by storewanderer »

Yes, that pricing you see at Acme is pretty typical across Albertsons and Safeway and that has been their typical pricing strategy now since the 00's. There are some exceptions in some markets on some items (like in my market where Safeway is matching/beating Smiths on a number of items) but most places that is not the case.

Perhaps Giant replacing the former Genuardi's locations is a real estate play so they can control the former Genuardi's site as well as their new store to prevent another Shop Rite from opening up.

Wegman's pricing on center store items always seemed very strong. They made up for it with high prices on the perimeter (but with them I have usually felt like I am getting what I pay for on the perimeter).
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by TW-Upstate NY »

One of the A+P's I'm surprised they didn't go after was Pompton Lakes given their long history in the area which came to a premature end when their store (along with the entire shopping center) burned to the ground in 1997. There's an even more interesting story on the aftermath of that fire but that's for another day. A+P eventually built a store on the very same property so it would've been a homecoming of sorts for them. And from what I've read recently, the location is still vacant. I also recall at least one instance where Acme did go in after the fact and pick off a location nobody else wanted. I believe that happened with the Boonton store although there may be others.
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by pseudo3d »

Even though it would have brought extra expense, keeping those stores as A&P (and related) probably would've helped them. But at the same time, some of those stores were probably doomed from the start.

I don't think ACME has it in them to compete in NY/CT anymore, you'd think a few of the Fairway stores would've piqued their interest...
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Re: Acme Wynnewood closing

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: July 6th, 2020, 10:06 pm Wegman's pricing on center store items always seemed very strong. They made up for it with high prices on the perimeter (but with them I have usually felt like I am getting what I pay for on the perimeter).
Surprising how many times people complain that they are expensive - probably only by looking at those specialty items (which are more, but as you say are worth what they cost). Even though they have somewhat more limited packaged items (often not every brand/size that other chains might carry) the prices on what they do carry are good, and some of their own items can be really cheap (like for several years, when we'd be in an area they were a couple times a year, the $2.99 or $3.99 paper towels for an 8 pack - somehow I doubt those are quite as low these days ;).
TW-Upstate NY wrote: July 7th, 2020, 9:47 am One of the A+P's I'm surprised they didn't go after was Pompton Lakes given their long history in the area which came to a premature end when their store (along with the entire shopping center) burned to the ground in 1997. There's an even more interesting story on the aftermath of that fire but that's for another day. A+P eventually built a store on the very same property so it would've been a homecoming of sorts for them. And from what I've read recently, the location is still vacant. I also recall at least one instance where Acme did go in after the fact and pick off a location nobody else wanted. I believe that happened with the Boonton store although there may be others.
Yes, Boonton was the one that they bought on it's last day of liquidation as an A&P - that's why it took far longer to reopen than the few days most of the stores closed between owners. The other one you mention would seem to make sense as well (I think that's the area with the Stop & Shop by the 287 exit that was something else originally, but it always seemed smaller than most).
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