Retail Watchers

Unlike most mobile device based payment systems (Apple Pay and Android Pay) Samsung Pay has functionality that allows it to work with magnetic stripe readers, allowing it to be used in places that don't support NFC payments. I've been using it for some time now, but recently it seems like more and more often I'm finding that it no longer works in places where I've been able to use it before. In particular, it looks like Walmart and Home Depot's POS systems now reject Samsung Pay with a "This card is not allowed" message, requiring me to use a standard chip card instead. If I try to use Samsung Pay in a Walmart self checkout it actually breaks something in the system, requiring an attendant to come reset the register to allow me to pay with a regular card. I do know some larger retailers are beginning to enable NFC payments, but it seems that others are going in the opposite direction.

The problem is since those Samsung Pay transactions are going through as Swipe-emulated transactions there is a fraud liability to the merchant for accepting the Swipe based transaction I think is the issue with this. The merchant is responsible for fraud if a transaction is processed as Swipe when the transaction could have gone through as Chip (or EMV Contactless NFC). Now with Samsung Pay I wonder how the fraud liability shakes out since technically that is a virtual card number, no Chip card is attached to that specific number... it is possible these larger retailers block it simply out of arrogance that they want people using their proprietary "pay" apps.

The merchant system doesn't know if you are swiping a physical swipe card or what is going on when you use the Samsung Pay. Someone could try to clone your card then swipe it and if the system still accepts swipe cards without an employee intervention then it could process right through. Theoretically the card number for Samsung Pay should be a virtual card number (different from your physical card number) so your bank should be expecting to see Swipe transactions coming from that Samsung Pay card number.

A number of retailers have modified systems to require some kind of employee intervention when a swipe card is used and for over certain dollar amounts. Expect to see more and more of that which will make the MSD-swipe emulation mode of Samsung Pay eventually something that can no longer be used. But Samsung Pay was certainly a good bridge for back when many merchants did not enable NFC and still made it so people could pay with their phones.

I have used Samsung Pay at many places. It works most of the time. However, at Walmart for some reason many of my credit cards get that rejection. The only card that works for sure at Walmart with Samsung Pay is my Bank of America card.

At Dollar Tree, only my Capital One card works with Samsung Pay. Some cards are blocked for some reason.

Some time within the past few months Dollar Tree enabled NFC payments on their terminals. I believe there were a couple of months before they enabled NFC that they stopped allowing swipe transactions from Samsung Pay though.

Samsung Pay DOES NOT emulate a traditional card swipe. If that were the case then any chiped card that you used with it would result in being promoted to insert the chip. It doesn’t even send 16 digits and an expiration date. It transmits a secured token that is algorithmically derived from your original card and confirmed by your card issuer as authentic when the terminal submits the authorization for approval. Samsung Pay is certified by all four of the major card networks Visa, MasterCard, Discover and Amex so that it’s emulated swipe gets a pass on EMV restrictions; futerthermore like Apple , Samsung assumes all responsibility for fraudulent transactions that occur when the app is used. Mag stripe credit cards are inherently insecure because once the data on the mag stripe is copied you have all of the card information. The card info is stored on tracks and the terminal reads track 1 or 2 to obtain the card data. Samsung Pay sends dynamic track data (each “swipe” is a different card ie tokenized) that is only good for one transaction. So if it’s stolen it’s useless. While there are some terminals that are older or not updated to support Dynamic Track Data, most of the time especially at larger retailers (I’m looking at you Home Depot& Walmart) they have made a purposeful and intended decision to specifically not allow SPay to operate by disabling the acceptance of Dynamic Trak Data. Walmart is the founding member of the failed MCX and they hate swipe fees and want you to use the Walmart app to pay in stores. Not entirely sure what HDX’s angle is yet. But it’s definitely not a security risk for them (or any of the involved parties; user included) as Samsung automatically eats the fraud no matter who’s at fault. Mobile Wallets are the most secure way to pay but they also keep purchase and transaction histories shielded from the merchant because they can’t track your spending habits because the card is dynamic .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey rrkj36,

Fantastic info. One potential tweak? Lmk your thoughts. While the token is dynamic, a portion of that token, including the card number remains static, as does the exp (but the supplemental data changes), as I understand it. This means merchants could still track each card across all tokens associated with that card, correct? Thanks in advance

I am happy almost everywhere I shop supports NFC so using Samsung Pay, Apple Pay, Google Pay, or a physical Contactless card is fairly universally accepted. Except Kroger and Wal Mart. But Wal Mart supports NFC in Canada now. I suspect it is just a matter of time for them in the US. And Kroger... worse yet, has the technology in place at QFC where it works just fine, but simply refuses to activate it elsewhere.

I am surprised however many restaurants seem to continue to be on swipe...

storewanderer wrote: ↑March 24th, 2021, 11:35 pm I am happy almost everywhere I shop supports NFC so using Samsung Pay, Apple Pay, Google Pay, or a physical Contactless card is fairly universally accepted. Except Kroger and Wal Mart. But Wal Mart supports NFC in Canada now. I suspect it is just a matter of time for them in the US. And Kroger... worse yet, has the technology in place at QFC where it works just fine, but simply refuses to activate it elsewhere.

I am surprised however many restaurants seem to continue to be on swipe...

I would say about 40-50% of my purchases are at NFC-enabled retailers. Major chains like Ralphs (Kroger), Home Depot, Walmart/Sam's, 99 Cents Only, don't take it, neither do many smaller merchants.

Restaurants seem to have never upgraded from swipe to EMV, probably because fraud isn't a huge concern for them. Someone who has stolen a credit card will want to quickly buy expensive things that can be resold, not go to eat at a restaurant.

A few weeks ago I used Samsung Pay (MST) at K-mart. The cashier was quite amused and started questioning me about it.

HCal wrote: ↑March 28th, 2021, 3:27 am
A few weeks ago I used Samsung Pay (MST) at K-mart. The cashier was quite amused and started questioning me about it.

Yes, the pinpad at Kmart will do the swipe-based Samsung Pay, they don't actively block it from working like Home Depot and Wal Mart do. I tend to forget it works there. For some reason my last purchase at Kmart the Chip wouldn't go through and it ended up being a Fallback (three chip failures then swiped card)

Does Samsung Pay work at 99 Cents Only? I've never tried it there. When I tried to tap a card there recently a new cashier said something to the effect of "I hope that works here" then when it didn't said "that is pretty sad." Did not see him on my next visit.

storewanderer wrote: ↑March 28th, 2021, 12:12 pm Does Samsung Pay work at 99 Cents Only? I've never tried it there. When I tried to tap a card there recently a new cashier said something to the effect of "I hope that works here" then when it didn't said "that is pretty sad." Did not see him on my next visit.

Yes, Samsung Pay in MST mode works just fine at 99 Cents Only. The only place I haven't been able to get it to work is Home Depot (I don't shop at Walmart or Lowes). Other than that' I've never had it not work if there is a mag stripe reader.