Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by Bagels »

storewanderer wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:31 pmVons has been disgustingly expensive (so has Ralphs) since the early 00's. This is part of why Vons has done so poorly in the remote markets like Fresno and Las Vegas: they had the wrong pricing. If anything both of them have come down on price a little bit, Vons coming down on price since the Albertsons merger (and running much stronger ads).

Ralphs has done price cut programs on and off for the past 15 years but somehow their prices are a lot higher than other surrounding Kroger divisions across the board.

I have no idea how a survey got them as being within 10% of Wal Mart at any point, I have never seen that. I've seen that with some (most, actually) Kroger divisions, in the past.
I regularly shopped at Vons only when I first moved to CA, shortly after graduating high school in 2000. I recall the prices being very reasonable, although it's possible I was too ignorant to know better! I still have my credit card-like club card (issued by "The Vons Companies") and I recall that varieties of Sara Lee lunch meats rotated on sale for $3.99/lb. So, it's quite possible that the store hadn't been Safewaytized yet. I quickly moved to an area in which Vons was not convenient, so I rarely went into the stores after that. I do recall visiting them for their custom sandwich deal, which was a very good value, but that's it.

Around the time Walmart announced its intentions to build up to 300 Neighborhood Markets in SoCal, Ralph's launched a major price cutting campaign. I bet Vons followed suit, hence the 10% difference of the time. Shortly before Aldi's opened its first location, Ralphs AND Walmart both lowered their prices... but it didn't last.
Not on topic here but Wal Mart- basically has one set of prices used across the US for center store items that come out of a Wal Mart warehouse. Their prices used to really vary by store but that stopped recently. A can of Del Monte Corn is $1.14 nationwide at any Wal Mart. A Marchan Ramen is 18cents at any Wal Mart. A can of Hunt's Tomato Sauce is 50cents nationwide at any Wal Mart. A 32oz 70% Rubbing Alcohol is 1.76 at any Wal Mart (most grocers charge more than that for a 16ounce). Where Wal Mart varies its pricing is on DSD items- things like bread, etc. are priced by state- for instance a Thomas English Muffins package is $1.98 in Nevada, 2.78 in California- same price at any Wal Mart. Then on items like milk and eggs Wal Mart varies its pricing by store based on price surveys the individual store does of surrounding competition so there are a lot of wide swings there on those items between locations. In short, while others selling grocers run with higher prices in California across the board than in surrounding states, California consumers are getting excellent pricing at Wal Mart on center store items. The price difference on grocery center store between Wal Mart and its competition, is much greater in California, than outside California. Still, sale prices at major grocers often will beat Wal Mart's pricing.
That's interesting. In my experiences, non-perishables have long been priced the same throughout the Walmart footprint. Pricing was the same in Hawaii as it was in California, Texas or Florida. A few years ago, they did say they were moving toward price localization, so I guess they abandoned that approach.

Still, it amazes me how much less Walmart is than Ralphs and Vons. The produce at Walmart is inferior, but you'll pay 50% less, on average, for the same stuff!
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: January 19th, 2021, 7:28 pm

I regularly shopped at Vons only when I first moved to CA, shortly after graduating high school in 2000. I recall the prices being very reasonable, although it's possible I was too ignorant to know better! I still have my credit card-like club card (issued by "The Vons Companies") and I recall that varieties of Sara Lee lunch meats rotated on sale for $3.99/lb. So, it's quite possible that the store hadn't been Safewaytized yet. I quickly moved to an area in which Vons was not convenient, so I rarely went into the stores after that. I do recall visiting them for their custom sandwich deal, which was a very good value, but that's it.
Safeway had pretty good pricing back in 2000 too. They were priced much better than Albertsons, had better quality perishables, cleaner stores, far better customer service, and a way stronger private label program. So I would not be surprised if Vons in 2000 still lived up to the slogan "Vons is Value."

Where Safeway seemed to go off on pricing was during the initial stage of the "Lifestyle" store program later in the 00's, but before Albertsons dissolved itself in 2006. They increased prices to astronomical levels across their entire operation. 5.99 half gallons of Minute Maid Orange Juice, $2 canned vegetables, the $5.99 18pack of Lucerne Eggs... lots of "buy one get one free" sales on these items that were barely a deal even with that promotion. This seemed to be a move to cover up falling volumes and make the Lifestyle program look more successful than it really was. And the stock market loved those years and the Lifestyle program appeared very successful (more successful than it really was...). Stores in medium or rural markets in places like Oregon or Colorado had prices just as high as a store that sat in San Francisco (this has since been corrected, again, by Albertsons after the merger).
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by rwsandiego »

Bagels wrote: January 19th, 2021, 7:28 pm...I regularly shopped at Vons only when I first moved to CA, shortly after graduating high school in 2000. I recall the prices being very reasonable, although it's possible I was too ignorant to know better! I still have my credit card-like club card (issued by "The Vons Companies") and I recall that varieties of Sara Lee lunch meats rotated on sale for $3.99/lb. So, it's quite possible that the store hadn't been Safewaytized yet. I quickly moved to an area in which Vons was not convenient, so I rarely went into the stores after that. I do recall visiting them for their custom sandwich deal, which was a very good value, but that's it.
You and I moved to SoCal around the same time. Prices did not seem out of line to me because I was accustomed to Chicago prices. Both Jewel and Dominick's priced items higher in the city and in Evanston (where I lived - across the border from Chicago on Lake Michigan) than in the suburbs. Funny, but the club card I use at Safeway here in Phoenix was originally a Dominick's Fresh Values card.
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by veteran+ »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: January 19th, 2021, 8:26 am
Bagels wrote: January 19th, 2021, 8:20 am Ralph’s/Vons savior in the LA market is that Walmart has struggled with its small format stores (e..g Neighborhood Markets) and building Supercenters isn’t practical due to space, cost and red tape.
Walmart is also viewed as an evil corporation in the LA area.
EXACTLY...............and they ARE by many measures!
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: January 19th, 2021, 5:31 pm
Bagels wrote: January 19th, 2021, 8:20 am
On a side note- when did Vons start to get so expensive? Pre or post Albertsons merger?
Vons has been disgustingly expensive (so has Ralphs) since the early 00's. This is part of why Vons has done so poorly in the remote markets like Fresno and Las Vegas: they had the wrong pricing. If anything both of them have come down on price a little bit, Vons coming down on price since the Albertsons merger (and running much stronger ads).

Ralphs has done price cut programs on and off for the past 15 years but somehow their prices are a lot higher than other surrounding Kroger divisions across the board.

I have no idea how a survey got them as being within 10% of Wal Mart at any point, I have never seen that. I've seen that with some (most, actually) Kroger divisions, in the past.

Not on topic here but Wal Mart- basically has one set of prices used across the US for center store items that come out of a Wal Mart warehouse. Their prices used to really vary by store but that stopped recently. A can of Del Monte Corn is $1.14 nationwide at any Wal Mart. A Marchan Ramen is 18cents at any Wal Mart. A can of Hunt's Tomato Sauce is 50cents nationwide at any Wal Mart. A 32oz 70% Rubbing Alcohol is 1.76 at any Wal Mart (most grocers charge more than that for a 16ounce). Where Wal Mart varies its pricing is on DSD items- things like bread, etc. are priced by state- for instance a Thomas English Muffins package is $1.98 in Nevada, 2.78 in California- same price at any Wal Mart. Then on items like milk and eggs Wal Mart varies its pricing by store based on price surveys the individual store does of surrounding competition so there are a lot of wide swings there on those items between locations. In short, while others selling grocers run with higher prices in California across the board than in surrounding states, California consumers are getting excellent pricing at Wal Mart on center store items. The price difference on grocery center store between Wal Mart and its competition, is much greater in California, than outside California. Still, sale prices at major grocers often will beat Wal Mart's pricing.
Florida food prices are typically higher than California.
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:22 am
Florida food prices are typically higher than California.
That is no mistake. There is limited competition in Florida. Also lots of zone pricing. Anytime a competitor showed up who showed promise, very low zone pricing was done by the existing strong players in FL to ensure they ran the competitor off. However I think center store pricing in FL has settled as being slightly lower than CA, as is meat/dairy pricing. Pricing on other fresh items (especially produce) seems much higher in Florida, than California. Few competitors just equals higher pricing. Similar story in places like Oklahoma.
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by Bagels »

veteran+ wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:22 amFlorida food prices are typically higher than California.
Historically, SoCal has had among the highest average retail food prices in the country, given the dominance of union grocers. Publix, of course, dominates Florida, with nearly 2/3 market share in South Florida and over 50% in Central Florida. That's remarkable given that in the 1990s, the state was Ground Zero for nearly every major grocery chain; it was also one of the first to have Walmart Supercenters and has had among the highest concentration of Super Targets in the country. Publix's dominance of the Florida market likely skews pricing perception, although I'm willing to bet its prices are similar (and probably even less) than Ralph's and Albertsons-Vons. The abundance and accessibility of ethic and discount (e.g. 99 Cents Only) grocers in SoCal may lead to the perception of lower pricing, although this is limited to a handful of items.

The highlight of Publix was always its deli, bakery and service produce departments. Although it's been over a decade since I've last stepped foot in one of their stores, I recall these items being outstanding, and glancing at their circular, they're priced comparatively (slightly less) than Albertsons-Vons and Ralphs.

Publix, of course, has always focused on premium. In the 1980s and 1990s, when service deli and bakery were becoming a standard and in their heyday, Sara Lee products dominated most grocers (even if they weren't identified as such; bakery items, deli salads and sandwiches, etc.). But Publix always emphasized Boar's Head, etc.
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: January 20th, 2021, 5:01 pm
veteran+ wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:22 am
Florida food prices are typically higher than California.
That is no mistake. There is limited competition in Florida. Also lots of zone pricing. Anytime a competitor showed up who showed promise, very low zone pricing was done by the existing strong players in FL to ensure they ran the competitor off. However I think center store pricing in FL has settled as being slightly lower than CA, as is meat/dairy pricing. Pricing on other fresh items (especially produce) seems much higher in Florida, than California. Few competitors just equals higher pricing. Similar story in places like Oklahoma.
I am more familiar with pricing on the coasts, rather than the central parts. Southeast prices are ridiculous.
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by veteran+ »

Bagels wrote: January 21st, 2021, 5:20 am
veteran+ wrote: January 20th, 2021, 7:22 amFlorida food prices are typically higher than California.
Historically, SoCal has had among the highest average retail food prices in the country, given the dominance of union grocers. Publix, of course, dominates Florida, with nearly 2/3 market share in South Florida and over 50% in Central Florida. That's remarkable given that in the 1990s, the state was Ground Zero for nearly every major grocery chain; it was also one of the first to have Walmart Supercenters and has had among the highest concentration of Super Targets in the country. Publix's dominance of the Florida market likely skews pricing perception, although I'm willing to bet its prices are similar (and probably even less) than Ralph's and Albertsons-Vons. The abundance and accessibility of ethic and discount (e.g. 99 Cents Only) grocers in SoCal may lead to the perception of lower pricing, although this is limited to a handful of items.

The highlight of Publix was always its deli, bakery and service produce departments. Although it's been over a decade since I've last stepped foot in one of their stores, I recall these items being outstanding, and glancing at their circular, they're priced comparatively (slightly less) than Albertsons-Vons and Ralphs.

Publix, of course, has always focused on premium. In the 1980s and 1990s, when service deli and bakery were becoming a standard and in their heyday, Sara Lee products dominated most grocers (even if they weren't identified as such; bakery items, deli salads and sandwiches, etc.). But Publix always emphasized Boar's Head, etc.
I lived in south east florida for a long time during 3 periods in my life. I managed many stores for 2 chains in that area.

I never shop at outlier stores like 99 cents or Dollar General so I would not include them with price comparisons.

When I lived and worked in Denver and Los Angeles the general prices were surprisingly lower than I was used to in S.E. Florida.

I apologize, but I disagree with the Publix fresh issue. Publix did and does not get Fresh. They are not known for that, though they have tried. I believe that as a former shopper and as former member of Publix management.

Also consider average income in Colorado and California vs Florida adds to the disparity.
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Re: Albertson/Vons/Pavilions Pricing

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

Bagels wrote: January 18th, 2021, 2:27 pm Walmart was expected to end 2020 with nearly 15% market share in San Diego -- up from less than a point a decade earlier. They continued to grow even after the Vons-Albertsons merger (which has subsequently lost market share).
According to the Kroger 2021 factbook, Walmart is #3 in San Diego market share. This factbook doesn't even mention Costco, so it could be even lower.
https://s1.q4cdn.com/137099145/files/do ... t-Book.pdf
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