Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by storewanderer »

jamcool wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 11:16 pm Actually Farmer Jack, for some unknown reason, bought Safeway’s Utah operation in the early 80s-and was unsuccessful.
They were trying to diversify... I think that move is what caused them to have to sell out to A&P.
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by TempoNick »

Bagels wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 8:10 pm
2020 Metro Detroit Market Share:
Kroger - 32%
Meijer - 20%
Walmart - 14%

2015 Metro Detroit Market Share:
Kroger - 28%
Meijer - 25%
Walmart - 13%

So basically, Kroger's picked up 5 points from Meijer in the past five years.
This doesn't square with the idea that Kroger is losing its mojo. If anything, it's still running like a well-oiled machine. Meijer seems to be losing some mojo, though. Kroger is still priced better than Meijer.

Kroger is also cheap on milk, eggs and sodapop. Good old-fashioned loss leaders. Meijer has been forced to match them on milk and eggs, but doesn't seem to want to do that on sodapop.

What I like about Meijer: Produce and Meats. Dairy is also okay.

What I dislike about Meijer: Bakery not nearly as good as it used to be; Store brand items not as good as Kroger overall. Kroger had the edge on price too, but Meijer is doing better at matching prices.
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by SamSpade »

Off Topic
storewanderer wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 11:21 pm
jamcool wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 11:16 pm Actually Farmer Jack, for some unknown reason, bought Safeway’s Utah operation in the early 80s-and was unsuccessful.
They were trying to diversify... I think that move is what caused them to have to sell out to A&P.
Many of those stores continued on for many years as independents, supplied by Fleming (as IGA) or Associated Foods Stores. A few became Albertsons.

This was the *late* 80s and Farmer Jack always made me think of Monterrey Jack cheese. :D
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by storewanderer »

TempoNick wrote: September 24th, 2021, 12:43 am
This doesn't square with the idea that Kroger is losing its mojo. If anything, it's still running like a well-oiled machine. Meijer seems to be losing some mojo, though. Kroger is still priced better than Meijer.

Kroger is also cheap on milk, eggs and sodapop. Good old-fashioned loss leaders. Meijer has been forced to match them on milk and eggs, but doesn't seem to want to do that on sodapop.

What I like about Meijer: Produce and Meats. Dairy is also okay.

What I dislike about Meijer: Bakery not nearly as good as it used to be; Store brand items not as good as Kroger overall. Kroger had the edge on price too, but Meijer is doing better at matching prices.
These things don't happen overnight. Let's see where things are for Kroger in 3-4 years.

Also who knows how many more territories Publix has earmarked for future expansion besides Louisville.

I don't think Publix is going after the customer looking for the best deal in town on milk, soda pop, or eggs either...
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by TempoNick »

IMHO, Publix is waaay overrated. They've had 20 years to battle Kroger in Atlanta and Kroger is still on top. Don't get me wrong, Publix is good. They're just not as godlike as people build them up to be.
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

Bagels wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 8:10 pm
DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 7:35 pm Are you able to provide a source for your Walmart claim?

Grantes, it doesn't specifically mention the Detroit area, but the below article from 2004 confirms there were already 30 Supercenters in the state and the rapid expansion of more Supercenters was ongoing.

That's more in line with how I remember it.

https://www.supermarketnews.com/archive ... rs-collide
Walmart entered rural Michigan in 1990. It opened its first Metro Detroit location in 1996 in Auburn Hills (a non-Supercenter, although such stores were already open elsewhere in the state), with additional stores opening in 1998 onward. Its first Metro Detroit Supercenters opened in 2008, with new build stores in Rochester Hills (replacing Auburn Hills) and Livonia (replacing a Livonia location) opening simultaneously. Walmart fairly quickly either opened replacement stores or expanded existing stores into Supercenters (I believe only one location was not expanded).

Here's a listing of Walmart's entire store fleet, with opening dates:
https://github.com/cjbayesian/walmart/b ... enings.csv
DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 7:41 pm
Just doing a quick unscientific measure on Google Maps, Walmart has ~19 Supercenters in Metro Detroit and Meijer has ~23 stores.

So yes, Meijer has more stores, but the gap doesn't seem to be wide (let alone 2-3 times).

EDIT: I also liken Michigan's infatuation over Meijer with Texas's infatuation over H-E-B. In Houston for example, Walmart has had a harder time competing because of the fierce hometown loyalty Texans have for a locally-based chain.
That number seems very low for Meijer, especially considering they've opened two stores in Detroit, two small format "Farmers Markets" in Detroit and Royal Oak, and smaller format stores to supplement full size stores in places like Rochester Hills (adjacent to Walmart, of all places). They're planning a grocery-only format, with the first location scheduled to open next year in Lake Orion.

2020 Metro Detroit Market Share:
Kroger - 32%
Meijer - 20%
Walmart - 14%

2015 Metro Detroit Market Share:
Kroger - 28%
Meijer - 25%
Walmart - 13%

So basically, Kroger's picked up 5 points from Meijer in the past five years.
I had no idea such an extremely detailed account of Walmart's store openings existed. I stand corrected.

As far as Meijer, I only did a quick 30 - 60 second count of the flagship stores in the urbanized Metro Detroit area (including the 2 Detroit proper stores). I could be wrong on the exact number, but even then, I still doubt the "2-3 times more stores as Walmart" claim.
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

TempoNick wrote: September 25th, 2021, 8:23 am IMHO, Publix is waaay overrated. They've had 20 years to battle Kroger in Atlanta and Kroger is still on top. Don't get me wrong, Publix is good. They're just not as godlike as people build them up to be.
Publix's main issue is pricing.

The standard Publix store tends to offer more frills, cleaner / more modern stores and better customer service. That does come with a relative premium on the products they sell.
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by Knight »

TempoNick wrote: September 25th, 2021, 8:23 am IMHO, Publix is waaay overrated. They've had 20 years to battle Kroger in Atlanta and Kroger is still on top. Don't get me wrong, Publix is good. They're just not as godlike as people build them up to be.
Kroger being on top in the Atlanta area and Georgia is interesting. It is behind Publix in supermarket market share, and its Kroger Marketplace stores are behind Walmart Supercenter in hypermarket market share.
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by storewanderer »

Knight wrote: September 26th, 2021, 11:51 am
TempoNick wrote: September 25th, 2021, 8:23 am IMHO, Publix is waaay overrated. They've had 20 years to battle Kroger in Atlanta and Kroger is still on top. Don't get me wrong, Publix is good. They're just not as godlike as people build them up to be.
Kroger being on top in the Atlanta area and Georgia is interesting. It is behind Publix in supermarket market share, and its Kroger Marketplace stores are behind Walmart Supercenter in hypermarket market share.
Kroger has been in Atlanta for a long time. Publix has not been there for very long. Atlanta was an early success story for the expansion of Publix organically. Kroger's Atlanta operation strikes me as more downscale and sloppy than the typical Kroger operation is, not quite as bad as a Food 4 Less, but close. Things like messy stores, numerous carts of go-backs, dirty stores, only way to pay being self checkout in the evening, employee uniform compliance being poor, sloppy and poorly stocked fresh departments... was surprised to see those in Kroger in Atlanta 12 years ago (saw nothing like that in Nashville back then, for example). However in the past few years I see a lot of things out west at the Kroger divisions that remind of of the sloppy types of operations I observed in Atlanta as much as 12 years ago.

I do think Publix may have a harder time against Kroger where Kroger has nicer/better run stores, than they had in Atlanta where I think there was a large segment of customers just looking for a professionally operated, clean, orderly store which Publix easily provided.
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Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: September 26th, 2021, 12:02 pm
Knight wrote: September 26th, 2021, 11:51 am
TempoNick wrote: September 25th, 2021, 8:23 am IMHO, Publix is waaay overrated. They've had 20 years to battle Kroger in Atlanta and Kroger is still on top. Don't get me wrong, Publix is good. They're just not as godlike as people build them up to be.
Kroger being on top in the Atlanta area and Georgia is interesting. It is behind Publix in supermarket market share, and its Kroger Marketplace stores are behind Walmart Supercenter in hypermarket market share.
Kroger has been in Atlanta for a long time. Publix has not been there for very long. Atlanta was an early success story for the expansion of Publix organically. Kroger's Atlanta operation strikes me as more downscale and sloppy than the typical Kroger operation is, not quite as bad as a Food 4 Less, but close. Things like messy stores, numerous carts of go-backs, dirty stores, only way to pay being self checkout in the evening, employee uniform compliance being poor, sloppy and poorly stocked fresh departments... was surprised to see those in Kroger in Atlanta 12 years ago (saw nothing like that in Nashville back then, for example). However in the past few years I see a lot of things out west at the Kroger divisions that remind of of the sloppy types of operations I observed in Atlanta as much as 12 years ago.

I do think Publix may have a harder time against Kroger where Kroger has nicer/better run stores, than they had in Atlanta where I think there was a large segment of customers just looking for a professionally operated, clean, orderly store which Publix easily provided.
And I would mention that Publix in S.W. Miami and other older well established Publix havens (except very upscale neighborhoods) suffers from the same dilution of standards that you mentioned with Kroger.
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