Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. No non-grocery posts.
Post Reply
arizonaguy
Store Manager
Store Manager
Posts: 1107
Joined: July 12th, 2013, 6:07 pm
Been thanked: 35 times
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by arizonaguy »

BatteryMill wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 5:15 pm
Bagels wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 3:49 pm In 2010, Publix surpassed Kroger as the market share leader in Atlanta, but Kroger quickly regained the title back and has maintained it since. But both chains have since lost market share to Walmart. I realize that Kroger isn't the fan favorite on here, but they generally run excellent stores with competitive pricing and great sales pricing, which is unquestionably the reason Publix didn't stay on top in Atlanta long.

Farmer Jack was a very profitable grocery store in the 1990s; it failed because rather than reinvesting some of the profits back into the stores, A&P put the profits into its failing NE operations. Investors were pulling for Safeway to dominate much of the Midwest, and after the chain overpaid for Dominick's, A&P thought it could command a high price for Farmer Jack (and Kohls). But Safeway lost interest in the Midwest, likely after it struggled to digest Dominick's, and Farmer Jack quickly fell to despair, garnering a horrible reputation. It was that poor reputation that ultimately killed off Farmer Jack -- Kroger maintained a large number of neglected stores in the area that were among the last in the chain to be renovated. Probably why Kroger's been replacing so many Detroit-area stores, when new construction is otherwise a rarity for the chain.

Walmart was a nonfactor - its first Supercenters opened in 2008 (FJ was defunct by 2007).
Walmart's Supercenters were late to Detroit... what were other such examples? They took until 2009 to introduce the D.C. metro area to these stores.
They were late to Detroit because Meijer had an extensive fleet of supercenters in Detroit and Kmart (which was Detroit based) had the GM market cornered with stores everywhere.

Even today Meijer has 2-3 times the number of locations in Metro Detroit as Walmart.

Michigan was also historically very pro union (it's much less so now) and there was significant opposition to a non-union shop (Walmart) versus Meijer (which is union).
storewanderer
Posts: 14379
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by storewanderer »

TempoNick wrote: September 21st, 2021, 8:39 pm

Au contraire, their jam-packed stores say they are the best. Their store count, sales and, most importantly, profit, also say they are the best. They are the best by far.

No, Kroger is not a "fancy" store. But it's not a bottom-tier store, either. It's slightly above middle tier and that's just fine. Like there's a huge difference between milk and canned goods from store to store? Kroger excels in produce. Not crazy about their meats, but they are tolerable.
The old Safeway, Inc. and the old Albertsons Inc. in the 90's and 00's were also showing things like store count, sales, and profit that made them look "the best" too.

Sorry, but I think Kroger has gone severely downhill in the past five years. The quality of the store operation has declined significantly. Kroger really did good things under Dave Dillon and was making one good move after another to improve store operations, improve mix, improve competitive/pricing position, and improve fresh department quality. These high store volumes are a direct result of all of those moves.

More recently I am finding Kroger's pricing position (relative to say, Albertsons/Safeway, WinCo, even Wal Mart) is not what it once was. Yes they still have many items everyday low price but the price gap on items they do not have as EDLP is much wider than it was say 5 years ago from Wal Mart.

Kroger's store operation is not what it was, 5-10 years ago. Their in-stock condition, produce quality, bakery quality- all below average. They still refuse to figure out how to accept Apple Pay. Policies like a fee for cash back are less than customer friendly. A digital coupon app with 750 digital coupons to scroll through is very cumbersome and hard to use. The employees don't wear uniforms anymore so it is hard to tell who is an employee and who isn't (aprons added more recently have helped- if employees wear them). Under Dave Dillon they had a checkout program of 1+1 and that was the policy additional lanes were to be opened if there was 1 customer paying and 1 customer unloading. That policy is long gone and Kroger's more recent remodels out at Smiths at least have stores doing close to $1 million a week in sales only having 5 checkstands so forget about 1+1 and hello to lines down the aisles (and about 16 self checkouts, which are rarely all open due to equipment failure or lack of staff or other excuses).

Kroger was doing fine until the last round of centralizing they did where they did almost the last bit of gutting to the little division offices (soon after the Harris Teeter merger). Since then, as a shopper, I am increasingly less and less satisfied with Kroger, and spending less and less money there. In many ways, their attitude reminds me a lot of the old Safeway and old Albertsons in the 90's and 00's. It may end differently for Kroger because, as you point out, they have less competition in a lot of markets and their stores do significantly higher volumes than those two chains.

Really the only part of Kroger I find that I still am highly satisfied with, is their private label program. That- they have managed to keep that going very well the past few years; mix, price, assortment, quality, new item roll outs- excellent work there.
Romr123
Assistant Store Manager
Assistant Store Manager
Posts: 693
Joined: February 1st, 2021, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by Romr123 »

(quote) Every member of my extensive extended family in Michigan shops at Meijer regularly. The only people who shop at Walmart regularly are those that live in rural parts of the state where Meijer doesn't have much of a presence.

Exactly--no one up here thinks WalMart is worth passing by Meijer for...only in Warren proper does Walmart approach Meijer's store count within metro Detroit.

Like Kroger, Walmart entirely ignores the city of Detroit (600k people) and only in the remotest corners of the state is Walmart more convenient than Meijer (Meijer was a little late to the Thumb and to the UP), so Walmart has more parity in those areas, and has a good location in Paw Paw (between Kalamazoo and Benton Harbor/St. Joseph) right off I-94.

That said, throughout the state Meijer is the "no excuse" store where everyone shops; and Walmart has a faint tinge of desperation (whether it's the non-union aspect, or the place-less uniformity, or the shi@ service/selection)
storewanderer
Posts: 14379
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by storewanderer »

Romr123 wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 5:55 pm

That said, throughout the state Meijer is the "no excuse" store where everyone shops; and Walmart has a faint tinge of desperation (whether it's the non-union aspect, or the place-less uniformity, or the shi@ service/selection)
There is a similar feeling about Wal Mart in the Pacific Northwest due to the strength of Fred Meyer. It isn't as pronounced in some areas as others but you can sure feel it around Portland and Seattle.
TempoNick
Stock Clerk
Stock Clerk
Posts: 33
Joined: June 25th, 2017, 7:54 pm
Been thanked: 3 times
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by TempoNick »

storewanderer wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 5:52 pm
Really the only part of Kroger I find that I still am highly satisfied with, is their private label program. That- they have managed to keep that going very well the past few years; mix, price, assortment, quality, new item roll outs- excellent work there.
The thing about Kroger is that when they centralize, if it's not working, they will decentralize. Remember, they reinstated the Michigan and Nashville divisions. With other companies, centralization is permanent.

I agree with your comment on price. They are not as sharp as they were, or maybe others have gotten sharper and it's hard to make a distinction anymore. For a while, Kroger was cheaper than Walmart. I don't think that's the case anymore, but they aren't so much higher that it bothers me. Meijer was traditionally cheaper than Kroger, but I think Kroger has the edge.

I totally agree with you on Kroger's store brand products. Most of them are very good and that is Kroger's biggest strength. The prices on their store brands are usually pretty good and that's mostly what I buy. There are a few things like ketchup where I stick with the national brand I like, but for the most part Kroger's brands are fine.
TempoNick
Stock Clerk
Stock Clerk
Posts: 33
Joined: June 25th, 2017, 7:54 pm
Been thanked: 3 times
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by TempoNick »

Bagels wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 3:49 pm In 2010, Publix surpassed Kroger as the market share leader in Atlanta, but Kroger quickly regained the title back and has maintained it since.
Last I looked, Publix had 22% market share and Kroger was 31% or 32%. Kroger has always been in that 30% range, because they always had numerous competitors in Atlanta. I could be off on those numbers one or two points but I seem to remember 7% or 8% separate Kroger and Publix.
User avatar
retailfanmitchell019
Assistant Store Manager
Assistant Store Manager
Posts: 891
Joined: November 10th, 2019, 11:17 am
Location: 760 area code
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

TempoNick wrote: September 21st, 2021, 10:08 pm From what I see, the only people they seem to have trouble competing against are H-E-B and Hy-Vee. They aren't winning against Hy-Vee in Missouri and Omaha, either. They gave up in Springfield and are down to two third-tier stores in Columbia. This is their home turf (Dillon's) so I wonder why they're not competitive.
storewanderer wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 6:30 pm There is a similar feeling about Wal Mart in the Pacific Northwest due to the strength of Fred Meyer. It isn't as pronounced in some areas as others but you can sure feel it around Portland and Seattle.
Kroger (and Walmart) also have some trouble competing against Albertsons/Vons dominance in San Diego.
I think Walmart is also weak around Minneapolis/St Paul (due to Target) and big metro areas in the northeast. Walmart's strongest area is definitely most of the South.
TempoNick
Stock Clerk
Stock Clerk
Posts: 33
Joined: June 25th, 2017, 7:54 pm
Been thanked: 3 times
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by TempoNick »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 9:30 pm
Kroger (and Walmart) also have some trouble competing against Albertsons/Vons dominance in San Diego.
Kroger says they have top two market share in San Diego according to their fact book.
storewanderer
Posts: 14379
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by storewanderer »

TempoNick wrote: September 22nd, 2021, 9:13 pm

The thing about Kroger is that when they centralize, if it's not working, they will decentralize. Remember, they reinstated the Michigan and Nashville divisions. With other companies, centralization is permanent.

I agree with your comment on price. They are not as sharp as they were, or maybe others have gotten sharper and it's hard to make a distinction anymore. For a while, Kroger was cheaper than Walmart. I don't think that's the case anymore, but they aren't so much higher that it bothers me. Meijer was traditionally cheaper than Kroger, but I think Kroger has the edge.

I totally agree with you on Kroger's store brand products. Most of them are very good and that is Kroger's biggest strength. The prices on their store brands are usually pretty good and that's mostly what I buy. There are a few things like ketchup where I stick with the national brand I like, but for the most part Kroger's brands are fine.
You are referring to the old Kroger. This "new" Kroger as it currently runs, is on a centralization one way train and at this rate I see no going back. They have lost too much of the deep knowledge about the individual markets that the division offices had even 5-10 years ago through various initiatives including voluntary early retirements, layoffs, voluntary "at retirement age" retirements, and other matters that may be out of their control.

This may not be as big of a deal at "Kroger" banner (but frankly, 10 years each of those divisions felt different too and had different fresh department programs/pricing programs)- but it is a bigger deal at more distinct banners like Fred Meyer, QFC, Ralphs, etc. Those were more upscale banners than typical "Kroger" and Kroger has dragged them down unbelievably (I'd rather shop Albertsons/Safeway in OR/WA as they have way better quality and somewhat better pricing; I'd probably still pick Ralphs over Vons though- or just go find a Trader Joes or some other grocer in that market as there are so many). To make matters worse with QFC and Ralphs, those two divisions have high pricing (higher than typical Kroger) and smaller stores (so the mix isn't as good as typical Kroger).

What will make or break Kroger will be the Ocado initiative. If that takes off, hopefully they will start to invest more in the store base again by building more new stores and trying to get better quality fresh products. Before COVID, I had a very negative outlook on that initiative. With COVID, I think they got very lucky- actually too bad they didn't have a few Ocado centers already open 18 months ago as they would have probably really gotten those off the ground well with the sudden demand spike.

As for top two market share in San Diego- that works if you combine Albertsons/Vons into one line. Back when those two were still "separate" Ralphs/F4L was a distant third. There is a reason for this though- going back to the 80's- when Alpha Beta and Lucky got merged together, most of the SoCal assets went to Burkle and ultimately rolled into Ralphs. The San Diego assets got to stay with Lucky. Then of course when Vons and Safeway merged SoCal in the 80's it was the same thing they combined assets in San Diego. But Ralphs in San Diego only had its own stores to rely on, not stores gained in mergers (like they had in the rest of SoCal).

Ralphs in San Diego has behaved in a curious manner; they have closed a lot of 90's era stores. I don't think they've built a true new store in San Diego in close to 20 years but they did open one new store in a tiny old Vons that was relocated (that Ralphs reminds me of a QFC- has a lot to offer for its size and a major improvement from the trash heap Vons that previously occupied the building) and relocated an existing store into a new structure about 8 years ago.
veteran+
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2234
Joined: January 3rd, 2015, 7:53 am
Has thanked: 1204 times
Been thanked: 71 times
Status: Offline

Re: Publix entering Louisville, KY in 2023

Post by veteran+ »

Well said storewanderer.

King Soopers was the KING in all ways in Colorado under Dillon. It was arguably their premiere operation.

Ralphs was incredible under Federated and even after but before Kroger (and yes there were some problems).

King Soopers and Ralphs used to share best practices with each other.

Frys was hit and miss and had a wonderful resurgence under Kroger but they have recently and noticeably slipped.

Having worked for both, I feel Kroger's homogenization of premiere brands AND their ever increasing arrogance (not listening to customers and employees) is at the root of what's happening. This is a drip drip drip, trickle down effect and unless they wake up and surrender some of the hubris I believe the consequences will not be good (long term).

It's all about attitude. Albertsons (after Joe) and Safeway have had historical well known attitude problems. They currently seem to be engaged with a positive shift in attitude, price and presentation. You can feel it when you engage with store personnel and corporate folks. Obviously it is a work in progress but I have felt the change.

Ralphs and Kroger? In my experience..............................a polar opposite trend (even if reported statistics of earnings and market share say something else).

Giants fall if they are not careful (Food Fair Inc., Tesco and others).

8-)
Post Reply