Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by BillyGr »

ClownLoach wrote: May 15th, 2022, 7:48 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm
ClownLoach wrote: May 14th, 2022, 8:43 pm Just drove past this on the 101. Still a Vons. Wonder what happened?
Relaunch of Pavilions is a dud. It already feels like a half hearted effort/program at best. Whatever management that Pavilions was the pet project of probably moved on or got promoted to a different position.
After sleeping on this one I think I figured out what happened. Santa Barbara and Montecito have been restricting signs for decades. No backlit plastic, and they have to be very tiny. The ancient Vons sign is big and plastic. I'll bet that they realized that if they rebranded it would mean that they would have been forced to reduce the size of the sign by at least 80%. To someone driving by it would look like the store closed down. What is odd is that construction had begun on the remodel and they had placed signs inside the store about "Pavilions coming soon" so I doubt they would have put back all of the lifestyle interior... I wonder if they gave it the Pavilions interior anyway?
Not sure why that would matter - it's why you often see older signs still around, since they can't make them be removed, you just can't put up new ones beyond the guidelines. Just change the name on it without taking down the sign.
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by Bluelightspecial »

Technically that's not true. Depends on Conditions of Approval....However there is no pylon sign at this store and the visibility of the existing signage is not great. Looking at the cities online permit log it looks like they applied for additional signage, but were turned down. There is a permit application to replace all the gondolas and refrigeration cases that was approved so my guess it's just taking longer than anticipated....which isn't unusual in Santa Barbara county.
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by storewanderer »

Bluelightspecial wrote: May 16th, 2022, 9:15 am
I would say Storewander would be right in that Pavilions has been miss-managed over the years. For years they treated it just as any Vons/Safeway and had no clear vision. Whether that changes or not we will see, but it's not a "dud". They wouldn't have adopted the decor in other areas like Hawaii and now high end Northern California stores if it was.
The problem is these stores in Hawaii and NorCal getting the Pavilions "decor" are still just a standard Safeway. So now they are putting the shiny looking decor onto what is not any different than a standard Safeway...

There is a store in Arizona in far upper Scottsdale (Carefree) that has had this Pavilions interior for a few years now too. It is just a standard old Safeway. Is it perhaps nicer than others? Yes, but in the end it is just the standard typical Safeway programs offered there.

Yet they do have that program in Boise with the Broadway store and the Meridian Market Street Store where the stores actually ARE different than a standard store in the fresh departments and have a wider mix in center store too. Why can't they export that format out of Boise? Yet the store they just opened in Star, ID doesn't have that interior or format so it is hard to understand what is going on. Still that store in Star has a lot of nicer looking features than the Reno new build Safeway from a year ago (nicer cafe/Starbucks area, even nicer looking bakery, popcorn counter, larger sushi counter, larger liquor department, Dry Aged Beef) so they do continue to do things better in Boise than they do elsewhere.
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by Bluelightspecial »

Maybe part of this reason is that they are spending the money close to home. Safeway was notorious for this...spend the money in the Bay Area and spend a little in the divisions.
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by ClownLoach »

BillyGr wrote: May 16th, 2022, 1:20 pm
ClownLoach wrote: May 15th, 2022, 7:48 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 14th, 2022, 8:52 pm

Relaunch of Pavilions is a dud. It already feels like a half hearted effort/program at best. Whatever management that Pavilions was the pet project of probably moved on or got promoted to a different position.
After sleeping on this one I think I figured out what happened. Santa Barbara and Montecito have been restricting signs for decades. No backlit plastic, and they have to be very tiny. The ancient Vons sign is big and plastic. I'll bet that they realized that if they rebranded it would mean that they would have been forced to reduce the size of the sign by at least 80%. To someone driving by it would look like the store closed down. What is odd is that construction had begun on the remodel and they had placed signs inside the store about "Pavilions coming soon" so I doubt they would have put back all of the lifestyle interior... I wonder if they gave it the Pavilions interior anyway?
Not sure why that would matter - it's why you often see older signs still around, since they can't make them be removed, you just can't put up new ones beyond the guidelines. Just change the name on it without taking down the sign.
The challenge is that the sign is actually 4 separate signs, one square for each letter of VONS. They are not big, but they're probably the largest grocery store sign in all of Santa Barbara. If you take it down you can't put the same size back up, it is no longer grandfathered in.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x ... ip6BAhWEAM

I wouldn't be surprised if for example the Whole Foods in town has a sign that is only 12 inches tall.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x ... ip6BAhKEAM


Here is an example of the restrictions - on this Sprouts the individual departmental signs are the same size as the actual Sprouts sign. I believe they are only allowed to be about 2 feet by 4 feet total and made of wood or other such material - no backlit plastic so you have to put spotlights on them. This would not work at all on this particular Vons because the storefront actually has a mall in front of it - the signs hang off an awning.

Sprouts (late 2020 build) sign:

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x ... ip6BAhcEAM#
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by ClownLoach »

Bluelightspecial wrote: May 16th, 2022, 8:31 pm Technically that's not true. Depends on Conditions of Approval....However there is no pylon sign at this store and the visibility of the existing signage is not great. Looking at the cities online permit log it looks like they applied for additional signage, but were turned down. There is a permit application to replace all the gondolas and refrigeration cases that was approved so my guess it's just taking longer than anticipated....which isn't unusual in Santa Barbara county.
Exactly - they probably wanted to put up the same or similar size Pavilions branding on the outside but then the city turned them down. My guess is the sign limit would make them put up a Pavilions sign in total smaller than just the V in Vons. It would not meet the requirements of itty bitty, teeny tiny little signs that they have in town now if they covered the same area. So it would make sense that it will just remain branded as Vons so they don't lose their signage. They've lost a ridiculous amount of retail and dining in Santa Barbara probably because literally nobody can find anything due to the microscopic sign limits.
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: May 16th, 2022, 9:45 pm
Bluelightspecial wrote: May 16th, 2022, 9:15 am
I would say Storewander would be right in that Pavilions has been miss-managed over the years. For years they treated it just as any Vons/Safeway and had no clear vision. Whether that changes or not we will see, but it's not a "dud". They wouldn't have adopted the decor in other areas like Hawaii and now high end Northern California stores if it was.
The problem is these stores in Hawaii and NorCal getting the Pavilions "decor" are still just a standard Safeway. So now they are putting the shiny looking decor onto what is not any different than a standard Safeway...

There is a store in Arizona in far upper Scottsdale (Carefree) that has had this Pavilions interior for a few years now too. It is just a standard old Safeway. Is it perhaps nicer than others? Yes, but in the end it is just the standard typical Safeway programs offered there.

Yet they do have that program in Boise with the Broadway store and the Meridian Market Street Store where the stores actually ARE different than a standard store in the fresh departments and have a wider mix in center store too. Why can't they export that format out of Boise? Yet the store they just opened in Star, ID doesn't have that interior or format so it is hard to understand what is going on. Still that store in Star has a lot of nicer looking features than the Reno new build Safeway from a year ago (nicer cafe/Starbucks area, even nicer looking bakery, popcorn counter, larger sushi counter, larger liquor department, Dry Aged Beef) so they do continue to do things better in Boise than they do elsewhere.
I'm going to call out one key difference: the stores with the Pavilions decor get a gigantic, massive, high end liquor department. Six aisles or more in some stores plus walk in Wine Cellars. The #1 intent of the Pavilions relaunch was to take market share from BevMo and Total Wine. Although their prices are not comparable on single bottles - they almost constantly run a 30% or more off discount on 6 or more bottles. So they take the "volume customers" out of BevMo/Total Wine and drive up the store volume with high dollar booze sales. If you watch these stores around the dinner rush - you won't necessarily see a super crowded store - but you will always see at least two or three customers in line with a cartload of wine and liquor bottles ringing up hundreds of dollars. The Laguna Niguel store that downsized recently didn't lose an inch of shelf space for liquor despite a third of the store being carved off for another tenant - it was always a slow Vons but the Liquor Dept. carried the store so they rebranded. Behind it is the 2nd Costco in the area - with the largest liquor dept. of any OC Costco.

There are several Albertsons on the Central Coast that also have a significantly expanded liquor department with massive wine areas - Morro Bay, Buellton come to mind. Again loads of local wines moving out in volume especially the weekend road trip customers who do some wine tastings here and there but then fill the trunk of the car before they drive back to LA. I would not be surprised to see the Pavilions decor/liquor format make its way to those stores even though otherwise you would not consider them to be high end areas.

The Safeway in Scottsdale mentioned above is very well known within Bourbon whiskey hunting groups as being one of the best stores in the United States for acquiring rare and hard to find product at retail price, sitting right on the shelf. I've seen pictures that made my jaw drop of endcaps of product I've never been able to get my hands on at any price. That is why it has the decor. Same for the Costco in town which pretty much gets the entire chain's allocation all in one store. Some unbelievably rare and allocated Bourbon products which I will not name here land at that Costco on a random weekend day in November at MSRP price - these bottles which they'll sell between $60 and $150 each (limit 1 per member) are seen in the glass case at high end liquor stores between $1000 and $5000 a piece because of the craziness of the secondary market.

Pavilions no longer means exclusive assortment, extreme differentiation of perimeter departments, etc. - it just means a big booze department, period.
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: May 17th, 2022, 1:14 pm

Pavilions no longer means exclusive assortment, extreme differentiation of perimeter departments, etc. - it just means a big booze department, period.
Interesting. Raleys is the one who seems to be running like that in NorCal with the heavy liquor. Safeway's liquor assortment is pretty good sized too though.

I guess it makes sense that Safeway/Albertsons should be able to do well with liquor between Safeway always doing a good job in the category and then American Stores was the largest liquor retailer in the US back in the 90's and from what I saw of Albertsons they maintained the ASC Liquor Program very well (CVS proceeded to rip it apart in the stores they bought, they may as well end sales in the liquor category they are so awful at it).

And between rising liquor consumption and completely inept retailers like CVS that sent millions of dollars a year of liquor sales from ASC walking I can see how there is a market to pick up...
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by CalItalian »

ClownLoach wrote: May 17th, 2022, 1:14 pm
storewanderer wrote: May 16th, 2022, 9:45 pm
Bluelightspecial wrote: May 16th, 2022, 9:15 am
I would say Storewander would be right in that Pavilions has been miss-managed over the years. For years they treated it just as any Vons/Safeway and had no clear vision. Whether that changes or not we will see, but it's not a "dud". They wouldn't have adopted the decor in other areas like Hawaii and now high end Northern California stores if it was.
The problem is these stores in Hawaii and NorCal getting the Pavilions "decor" are still just a standard Safeway. So now they are putting the shiny looking decor onto what is not any different than a standard Safeway...

There is a store in Arizona in far upper Scottsdale (Carefree) that has had this Pavilions interior for a few years now too. It is just a standard old Safeway. Is it perhaps nicer than others? Yes, but in the end it is just the standard typical Safeway programs offered there.

Yet they do have that program in Boise with the Broadway store and the Meridian Market Street Store where the stores actually ARE different than a standard store in the fresh departments and have a wider mix in center store too. Why can't they export that format out of Boise? Yet the store they just opened in Star, ID doesn't have that interior or format so it is hard to understand what is going on. Still that store in Star has a lot of nicer looking features than the Reno new build Safeway from a year ago (nicer cafe/Starbucks area, even nicer looking bakery, popcorn counter, larger sushi counter, larger liquor department, Dry Aged Beef) so they do continue to do things better in Boise than they do elsewhere.
I'm going to call out one key difference: the stores with the Pavilions decor get a gigantic, massive, high end liquor department. Six aisles or more in some stores plus walk in Wine Cellars. The #1 intent of the Pavilions relaunch was to take market share from BevMo and Total Wine. Although their prices are not comparable on single bottles - they almost constantly run a 30% or more off discount on 6 or more bottles. So they take the "volume customers" out of BevMo/Total Wine and drive up the store volume with high dollar booze sales. If you watch these stores around the dinner rush - you won't necessarily see a super crowded store - but you will always see at least two or three customers in line with a cartload of wine and liquor bottles ringing up hundreds of dollars. The Laguna Niguel store that downsized recently didn't lose an inch of shelf space for liquor despite a third of the store being carved off for another tenant - it was always a slow Vons but the Liquor Dept. carried the store so they rebranded. Behind it is the 2nd Costco in the area - with the largest liquor dept. of any OC Costco.

There are several Albertsons on the Central Coast that also have a significantly expanded liquor department with massive wine areas - Morro Bay, Buellton come to mind. Again loads of local wines moving out in volume especially the weekend road trip customers who do some wine tastings here and there but then fill the trunk of the car before they drive back to LA. I would not be surprised to see the Pavilions decor/liquor format make its way to those stores even though otherwise you would not consider them to be high end areas.

The Safeway in Scottsdale mentioned above is very well known within Bourbon whiskey hunting groups as being one of the best stores in the United States for acquiring rare and hard to find product at retail price, sitting right on the shelf. I've seen pictures that made my jaw drop of endcaps of product I've never been able to get my hands on at any price. That is why it has the decor. Same for the Costco in town which pretty much gets the entire chain's allocation all in one store. Some unbelievably rare and allocated Bourbon products which I will not name here land at that Costco on a random weekend day in November at MSRP price - these bottles which they'll sell between $60 and $150 each (limit 1 per member) are seen in the glass case at high end liquor stores between $1000 and $5000 a piece because of the craziness of the secondary market.

Pavilions no longer means exclusive assortment, extreme differentiation of perimeter departments, etc. - it just means a big booze department, period.
Pavilions 30% off wines $30 or more (which previously was $19.99 or more) is a phony advertised discount. It's just the sale price. It applies to one bottle or more. See the ad this week. It's advertised.

Vons, Albertsons and Pavilions offer 10% off 750 ml. wines wyb 6 or more. It's been this way since Albertsons took over. Previously, they matched Ralphs offer of 30% off 750 mil wines wyb 6 or more. About once a quarter now they do a double discount weekend of 20% off 750 ml. wines wyb 6 or more. That use to be every month or no later than 6 weeks.
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Re: Vons Montecito to become Pavilions

Post by Alpha8472 »

The Safeway with Pavilions decor in San Ramon has the huge new wine department. There is a huge walk-in glass wine room with sliding glass doors. The huge windows display tons of wines. There is even a wine tasting counter. BevMo! is in the same shopping center, but this Safeway has a superior selection.

I also noticed a Concierge lounge with huge plush chairs. What is the Concierge lounge for? I have never seen a Safeway store this fancy in Northern California.
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