DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by storewanderer »

biggins wrote: August 28th, 2023, 12:04 pm
SamSpade wrote: August 28th, 2023, 8:32 am The Dallas Morning News has yet again released public data about grocery share (the article is member/subscriber exclusive content), here is some 2022 information.
The first metroplex proper H-E-B store didn't open in Frisco until almost 4Q22, so H-E-B's numbers really aren't taking the new stores in Collin County into account with this set of data. (I think)

That said, I expect H-E-B's market share to get into the 5-6% range within a year or two.
What is HEB's store opening schedule?

I suspect they are doing $5 million per week in sales per store at the 3 new HEB units in Plano/Frisco/the other one that escapes me. Most successful store openings I've seen.

Market Street is such a non player at this point they may as well be gone. Yet they just remodeled two stores. They are trying... but you can't top HEB.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by biggins »

storewanderer wrote: August 28th, 2023, 8:41 pm
biggins wrote: August 28th, 2023, 12:04 pm
SamSpade wrote: August 28th, 2023, 8:32 am The Dallas Morning News has yet again released public data about grocery share (the article is member/subscriber exclusive content), here is some 2022 information.
The first metroplex proper H-E-B store didn't open in Frisco until almost 4Q22, so H-E-B's numbers really aren't taking the new stores in Collin County into account with this set of data. (I think)

That said, I expect H-E-B's market share to get into the 5-6% range within a year or two.
What is HEB's store opening schedule?

I suspect they are doing $5 million per week in sales per store at the 3 new HEB units in Plano/Frisco/the other one that escapes me. Most successful store openings I've seen.

Market Street is such a non player at this point they may as well be gone. Yet they just remodeled two stores. They are trying... but you can't top HEB.
H-E-B opened the Frisco and Plano stores in late 09/22 and 11/22, respectively, if I recall correctly. McKinney came online about a month ago, and I believe Allen is next on deck, and that will open before the holidays. Alliance should be coming online after that. I keep waiting for some movement eastward in the Metroplex, whether that means a store in Rockwall or Wylie/Murphy, a little closer to my house in Rowlett. Nevertheless, I have the Plano location on a weekly rotation in my household.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by storewanderer »

biggins wrote: August 29th, 2023, 12:42 pm

H-E-B opened the Frisco and Plano stores in late 09/22 and 11/22, respectively, if I recall correctly. McKinney came online about a month ago, and I believe Allen is next on deck, and that will open before the holidays. Alliance should be coming online after that. I keep waiting for some movement eastward in the Metroplex, whether that means a store in Rockwall or Wylie/Murphy, a little closer to my house in Rowlett. Nevertheless, I have the Plano location on a weekly rotation in my household.
So McKinney just opened, that explains what they were doing with the gas price there (.20-.30 below everyone nearby). That also explains the situation with the Kroger Marketplace across the street there but Kroger Marketplace did still have quite a few shoppers... just not even close to HEB level. I can only imagine how busy it must have been before HEB.

If they can keep a 2-3 store per year opening schedule that will be great and keep opening these giant stores like the first three, they will have great success.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by biggins »

storewanderer wrote: August 30th, 2023, 12:13 am
biggins wrote: August 29th, 2023, 12:42 pm

H-E-B opened the Frisco and Plano stores in late 09/22 and 11/22, respectively, if I recall correctly. McKinney came online about a month ago, and I believe Allen is next on deck, and that will open before the holidays. Alliance should be coming online after that. I keep waiting for some movement eastward in the Metroplex, whether that means a store in Rockwall or Wylie/Murphy, a little closer to my house in Rowlett. Nevertheless, I have the Plano location on a weekly rotation in my household.
So McKinney just opened, that explains what they were doing with the gas price there (.20-.30 below everyone nearby). That also explains the situation with the Kroger Marketplace across the street there but Kroger Marketplace did still have quite a few shoppers... just not even close to HEB level. I can only imagine how busy it must have been before HEB.

If they can keep a 2-3 store per year opening schedule that will be great and keep opening these giant stores like the first three, they will have great success.
I'm sure that's their plan. They'll also do well to keep building in high growth areas with a high percentage of transplants from other states, so that means stores out north and west of McKinney in Prosper, Celina, Anna, Van Alstyne and points north.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by ClownLoach »

SamSpade wrote: August 28th, 2023, 8:32 am The Dallas Morning News has yet again released public data about grocery share (the article is member/subscriber exclusive content), here is some 2022 information.
D-FW Grocery Landscape: Published July 27 2023
...collective grocery spending increased by almost 17% last year to a whopping $28.2 billion and while the population grew again, the increase wasn’t just driven by more mouths to feed. Inflation was the main reason, and it worked to Walmart’s advantage as a perceived low-price retailer.

. . . data compiled by Chain Store Guide that excludes pharmacy and general merchandise sales. When Sam’s Clubs and Neighborhood Markets are added, Walmart’s local share was more than a third, or 37.3% of the region’s spending on groceries last year.
And consumers? They’re back to breaking up their grocery baskets and shopping with multiple retailers again.
. . . Discount grocer Aldi has aggressively campaigned that it could trim a family’s annual grocery bill by $700 a year on average and said nearly 400,000 Texans tried the brand for the first time last year.

“People are more certain of the supply chain and not stocking up as much. They are buying more store-label products for less. They are also breaking up their baskets again.”

Instead of consolidating purchases into one weekly trip, “consumers are back shopping at multiple stores again, with some shopping at premium grocers or clubs like Costco and Sam’s Club for specialty products, fresh produce, and higher quality meat,” he said.
Walmart passed other chains to have the largest grocery market share in D-FW in 2004.

“None of us underestimated Walmart’s expansion during the day, and the traditional grocer had a way to do grocery better with customization, but instead they operated cookie cutters and did things like getting rid of Boar’s Head lunch meats when Safeway took over Tom Thumb (in 1999),” Young said. “Albertsons operated in a time warp zone back then. They weren’t flexible or as fast as the retail market was moving.”

Legacy grocers have taken the hits and learned from them, Young said. The growth of pickup grocery services, grab-and-go prepared meals and fuel programs “combine with the elements of a traditional supermarket to meet the daily needs of customers and make grocery shopping easier and enjoyable.”
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This is the second time I've seen this database quoted in a news article and I'm calling BS on this one just like the previous.

All they're doing is multiplying store count by the chain average revenue times chain average grocery percentage to make up a localized revenue total, and then a market total. Then they just do simple division to make up share percentages.

This is a completely misleading way to determine market share.

First, I agree with Walmart being top overall in the DFW market but nowhere near 28%. Second, because they're using chain average volumes the mix of food vs everything else might be very wrong. They have such an extreme density of supercenters in DFW that none of them are intensely busy, certainly nothing like some of the wildly chaotic locations on the West Coast. There's basically one off every freeway off ramp in the DFW metroplex. I'm willing to wager that they each do 40% less than the chain average, maybe worse. So they're wildly inflating Walmart's share.

Second, Kroger has a very mixed group of stores from traditional ten aisle boxes to Costco size megastores. Again hard to imagine that the market nets to chain average.

Third, Target is all over the place and mostly SuperTarget locations. Nearly all are with a supermarket next door as they didn't get the kind of exclusive use leases they have in other areas. They drastically underperform in Texas where Walmart is king. They are SLOW stores. These were some of the last stores to even earn being remodeled out of the 1990's neon decor. They are all very slow compared to Walmart who is usually across the street or around the corner. By using chain average math again Target is probably the most overestimated market share on the chart because of their limited movement of foods. No way in hell they're that high in the market, I would guess these are some of the worst performing foods departments in the Target system as we've seen some locations there remodel with the "de supering" process. I'm pretty sure the market wide remodel project about 7 years ago or so was a last ditch effort to save stores instead of culling 30-40% of their units. Some real dog locations compared to Walmart, off-highway strip mall back corners.

I can see Sam's outperforming Costco here simply because Costco doesn't have enough stores and Sam's are generally in better locations in this market. But again they use chain averages so Costco volume is listed as just a hair behind Sam's despite having half the store count. I believe Costco and Sam's revenues are probably equal per unit here. I think both Sam's and Costco locations outperform chain average here so both shares are under reflected in the total.

I think these articles are crap. I have maybe spent three months total in Dallas for work and even I know enough about the market to see that these articles are wildly skewed. Anyone with Google, a calculator, and a simple Excel file can pretty closely reproduce their "market studies" results. That doesn't mean that they have any basis in fact.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by storewanderer »

Could Target's strong in terms of being near the top of the list (is 8% really strong..) standing be due to heavy volume on consumables like paper products, pet products, laundry products, seasonal candy, and such?

I think Kroger has slowly been weeding out the smaller stores, expanding, etc. I'm not sure how many smaller stores they have left in DFW. Kroger is running pretty healthy looking stores around Dallas. I can't tell much difference in them from a Smiths until I look really close on center store grocery aisles as there are some major merchandising differences there, but they seem to be pretty effective with how they are doing things.

Tom Thumb/Albertsons seems rather troubled to me in that market; too many of the stores do not look or feel particularly healthy as a whole. Not all of them even have self checkout, which is shocking at this point. I did find a couple Tom Thumbs (layouts remind me of a Dominicks, not sure if those were built by Safeway or before, they looked under 20 years old) that seemed to lack competition and were actually really nice stores, with a lot to offer, though. But enter a competitive situation and both chains are not looking so good.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: September 1st, 2023, 12:03 am Could Target's strong in terms of being near the top of the list (is 8% really strong..) standing be due to heavy volume on consumables like paper products, pet products, laundry products, seasonal candy, and such?

I think Kroger has slowly been weeding out the smaller stores, expanding, etc. I'm not sure how many smaller stores they have left in DFW. Kroger is running pretty healthy looking stores around Dallas. I can't tell much difference in them from a Smiths until I look really close on center store grocery aisles as there are some major merchandising differences there, but they seem to be pretty effective with how they are doing things.

Tom Thumb/Albertsons seems rather troubled to me in that market; too many of the stores do not look or feel particularly healthy as a whole. Not all of them even have self checkout, which is shocking at this point. I did find a couple Tom Thumbs (layouts remind me of a Dominicks, not sure if those were built by Safeway or before, they looked under 20 years old) that seemed to lack competition and were actually really nice stores, with a lot to offer, though. But enter a competitive situation and both chains are not looking so good.
The DFW Target operation is as irrelevant as Tom Thumb. All that this website did is calculate the average volume Target store's food business by the number of stores. Both Target and Walmart have an abnormally high number of stores compared to the population of the metroplex. No way either does close to chain average except maybe at a handful of stores.

Just knowing that Target and Walmart have 3 tiers of stores - no Pfresh, moderate foods, and super with expanded produce meat and bakery - their use of chain average is no better for calculating than getting out a dartboard. But since they said they are calculating out the non-foods in these calculations I can only assume they aren't including the items you describe and thus have grossly overstated Target market share. The Target stores I saw in good neighborhoods had conditions similar to that wonderful Reno store we keep seeing here, no reason but mismanagement. Difference was that they had no payroll because they do no volume at all, one cashier level payroll. Saw one Super Target closer to Plano that seemed more decent, but it was surrounded with competition and still low volume with minimally stocked and faced produce and meats, no depth. Since I shop what is allegedly the top SuperTarget in the chain (Menifee CA) the difference in operation is night and day. I think Target might have 3% tops of the DFW food market.

Driving around smaller perimeter towns closer to Arlington I saw several smaller Kroger sites, honestly don't remember where they were but those were neighborhood stores that resembled what I call a classic Ralphs which are also in short supply these days. About ten to twelve aisles, basic deli and bakery counter next to each other, small combo meat and seafood desk. They were doing fine and didn't seem to be the type of areas or stores they'd move to a 100K format. I have no criticism of the format, I thought they were superior to the Ralphs operation in California. I just think the inconsistency of size would translate to skewing store volume when calculating share with a chain average.

Agree about the Tom Thumb, visited a few that I think were the Dominick's format you described plus one that was just old and stale with lighting, ceiling and big round AC blowers that looked like a old Lucky. Dead stores walking.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by buckguy »

Do they actually say what the methodology was? The article is paywalled and most newspapers usually don't bother to get specific about research of any kind. Also, do they specify what the trading area includes? These sometimes cover huge areas---the DC survey that was posted a while ago included a huge area that inflated Walmart's share.

Newspapers used to sponsor these market surveys and do them on an annual basis, but that was long ago. Even then I wondered how they calculated shares for privately owned chains or large co-ops. If they're using national chain averages, then they're obviously missing variation by market. Even a chronic underachiever like Safeway probably varies a lot by market and the benchmarks for keeping stores open may vary depending on volume and the cost of doing business. Dallas probably is a cheaper place to do business than, say, Los Angeles or DC, and stores may stay open with lower volumes. Target and Walmart do seem to breakdown sales by food and non-food, but I would surprised if they each did it the same way.
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Re: DFW Grocers Market Share 2021

Post by ClownLoach »

buckguy wrote: September 3rd, 2023, 11:29 am Do they actually say what the methodology was? The article is paywalled and most newspapers usually don't bother to get specific about research of any kind. Also, do they specify what the trading area includes? These sometimes cover huge areas---the DC survey that was posted a while ago included a huge area that inflated Walmart's share.

Newspapers used to sponsor these market surveys and do them on an annual basis, but that was long ago. Even then I wondered how they calculated shares for privately owned chains or large co-ops. If they're using national chain averages, then they're obviously missing variation by market. Even a chronic underachiever like Safeway probably varies a lot by market and the benchmarks for keeping stores open may vary depending on volume and the cost of doing business. Dallas probably is a cheaper place to do business than, say, Los Angeles or DC, and stores may stay open with lower volumes. Target and Walmart do seem to breakdown sales by food and non-food, but I would surprised if they each did it the same way.
All they said was that they use food sales.

I reverse engineered their results with Kroger and Costco figures I found online, and figured out they seem to be using the chain average or something within a percentage point of it. They multiply the chain average by store count to come up with the dollar amount, then they add all those for the market total then they can determine percentage.

But it's as accurate as throwing darts at a dartboard the size of Texas. It's a complete crap study.

The big Kroger on MacArthur in Irving TX has like 30 registers which are almost all open when I've been there, it's about 80,000 Sq ft. A Ralphs in Irvine, CA might have 3 registers open on their busiest hour and is 35,000 Sq ft.. This study basically calculates those as the same store.

The oldest Costco on Morena in San Diego is well over a billion dollar store. The new Costco in Warrington, OR couldn't possibly exceed $100M if that. This study would calculate them as the same store.

I could go on and on.

It's a silly way to calculate market share. Completely inaccurate.
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