Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

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timanny
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by timanny »

storewanderer wrote: March 30th, 2022, 10:11 pm
timanny wrote: March 29th, 2022, 4:24 pm

Ralphs as a chain or brand will not cease to exist, it just might not be part of Kroger. Save Mart was just purchased by a private equity group based in LA; if they turnaround Save Mart (which has already started prior to the purchase) the way Cerebrus turned around Albertsons, I could see Ralphs becoming Save Mart's brand south of the Grapevine.
Save Mart does not have the knowledge or ability to run Ralphs Stores (have you seen what the Ralphs they took over in Clovis and Bakersfield look like...?). Valley Central California and SoCal are not the same market and Ralphs and Save Mart do not cater to the same customer at all. Save Mart's Lucky banner is almost a non-factor in the bay area (Lucky format is not exactly strong- it is an achievement they are even still open) and again the bay area is not SoCal either (as Ralphs found out).

Ralphs is fully tangled up in the Kroger ecosystem at this point. Its merchandising, private label, pricing, store layout, operational structure, programs like pickup, loyalty card, are all so tangled into the Kroger ecosystem that you could not just sell the thing to Save Mart and it would be able to continue. It would be a major effort requiring a lot of talent and effort to break Ralphs out of the Kroger ecosystem into something that would work on its own. At this point with how Kroger has cycled through division management there are not really any "Ralphs veterans" to take a corporate management role and oversee the chain in the event of a split off.

I don't even think Save Mart could run the Food 4 Less format (that format under Kroger has evolved into having a much heavier fresh and non food offering than the Food Maxx Stores Save Mart owns have), but they'd have a better chance with that than they'd have with Ralphs. Still, Food Maxx is basically the old early 90's F4L. But F4L under Kroger has really evolved down there in SoCal into a bit of a different format. Food Maxx... is still the old early 90's F4L. And the old early 90's F4L would be out of business in SoCal by now had it continued under that format.

Remember how it went when Save Mart took over NorCal Albertsons? It tanked their company... once they converted the stores the volumes dropped dramatically after the honeymoon period ended and the quality of their entire operation fell off a cliff. And NorCal Albertsons was a very broken operation. Everyone was really excited to get away from Albertsons in NorCal but Save Mart botched that acquisition in a major way. Ralphs still "works" - generally speaking - but a lot of the pieces from the Kroger ecosystem are what make it work.

There would be zero reason to "integrate" Save Mart and Ralphs. Both have their own dairy operation (Save Mart sold off milk but kept other dairy), warehouses, etc. If this private equity firm was to buy Ralphs, it would need to be managed and operated 100% separately from Save Mart with zero influence between the two.

Save Mart and Stater... that may be something viable... Stater would bring stronger fresh programs, better market knowledge/research, more effective merchandising, and a better pricing program, Save Mart would bring a pharmacy operation/discount format/dairy operation.
I have not been inside a Save Mart for years, so admittedly I was unaware of how poorly they had been operating. I was under the impression that the Lucky operation was getting better and that they were adding stores. You are dead on about Stater Bros. Stater reminds me of what Save Mart used to be like when it was just a Central Valley chain (other than the ex-Fry's).
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by storewanderer »

timanny wrote: March 31st, 2022, 10:22 pm
I have not been inside a Save Mart for years, so admittedly I was unaware of how poorly they had been operating. I was under the impression that the Lucky operation was getting better and that they were adding stores. You are dead on about Stater Bros. Stater reminds me of what Save Mart used to be like when it was just a Central Valley chain (other than the ex-Fry's).
Save Mart has gotten much better in its operation over the past 5 years but it is really just getting back to basics and at least proper execution in fresh departments and pricing/promotion improvements to drive volume. The period 2009-2017 in particular was absolutely terrible for Save Mart. Basically that period where they didn't remodel any stores and opened like one new store in Modesto.... the turn around started with the 2017 Lucky remodel in Daly City (that remodel wasn't exactly great but it signified changes were coming in the organization).

Stater does a hell of a job with its operation. Their stores operate like all of the chain grocers operated in the 90's. They run a tight ship. Their employees, who are clearly a bunch of career grocery people, are just extremely hard working and seem very happy. It is a reality check to go into a Stater and see how they operate. It really makes you feel good after lackluster experiences elsewhere. I went into one of their stores earlier this week. Middle of the afternoon; six checkouts open; departments all staffed with 3-4 employees each. Perimeter in excellent condition all around. Many customers, many carts. Checkout was efficient and friendly, and had baggers working at all lanes. Watched an elderly customer hug one of the baggers after a carry out was done. Employees are professional in appearance, working diligently, and all very friendly. Store Management visible in multiple areas all in full uniform and identifiable. Merchandising is very basic and they do not try to do anything special or fancy (Save Mart seems to be trying to up its game on things like Organic/Gluten Free/other stuff that probably don't fit with Save Mart very well) and it seems like it is just what a lot of customers are looking for. Store had a 4.6 average rating on Google with something around 900 reviews, and after going in there, it is very clear why.
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by Romr123 »

yup...Stater feels like a West coast Market Basket. Unfortunately they seem viewed here in Palm Springs as slightly declasse, but we've had good luck there, with particularly good perimeter employees showing lots of hustle. Clearly they appeal to the local families rather than the leisure set--conversely though we got a delicious sushi tray a couple weeks ago (their franchisee seems different than the other ones and is located right at the entrance), and the service meat is just what the doctor ordered for a couple steaks on the grill.

Contrast to Ralphs at Ramon/Sunrise (a couple miles south) where as you walk in the door you get the whiff of overheated chicken fryers at the hot bar.
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by storewanderer »

Romr123 wrote: April 1st, 2022, 8:37 am yup...Stater feels like a West coast Market Basket. Unfortunately they seem viewed here in Palm Springs as slightly declasse, but we've had good luck there, with particularly good perimeter employees showing lots of hustle. Clearly they appeal to the local families rather than the leisure set--conversely though we got a delicious sushi tray a couple weeks ago (their franchisee seems different than the other ones and is located right at the entrance), and the service meat is just what the doctor ordered for a couple steaks on the grill.

Contrast to Ralphs at Ramon/Sunrise (a couple miles south) where as you walk in the door you get the whiff of overheated chicken fryers at the hot bar.
Stater having that declasse reputation is really not deserved at this point in time. The quality of their operation is the best in the market. The attitude of the employees is what really does the trick for Stater. They are really nothing special but it is the employees who make it something special. It is just surreal because in the 90's all of the grocers out west were like that when you went into their stores.... it is amazing how these other chains have fallen and this Stater group has been able to somehow maintain what in the 90's would have just been basic grocery 101 operations.

Ralphs at this point is basically a C Grade Kroger operation. Ralphs prices seem to have really fallen (next to Vons/Albertsons at least) so at least there is that. Ralphs pricing seems to be in line with Stater. Some of the nicer/cleaner Fresh Fare units are perhaps B- grade. I would call Smiths and Frys a B Grade Kroger operation and Fred Meyer once you get closer to Portland an A Grade Kroger Operation, in contrast.
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by HCal »

storewanderer wrote: April 1st, 2022, 7:08 pm
Stater having that declasse reputation is really not deserved at this point in time. The quality of their operation is the best in the market. The attitude of the employees is what really does the trick for Stater. They are really nothing special but it is the employees who make it something special. It is just surreal because in the 90's all of the grocers out west were like that when you went into their stores.... it is amazing how these other chains have fallen and this Stater group has been able to somehow maintain what in the 90's would have just been basic grocery 101 operations.

Ralphs at this point is basically a C Grade Kroger operation. Ralphs prices seem to have really fallen (next to Vons/Albertsons at least) so at least there is that. Ralphs pricing seems to be in line with Stater. Some of the nicer/cleaner Fresh Fare units are perhaps B- grade. I would call Smiths and Frys a B Grade Kroger operation and Fred Meyer once you get closer to Portland an A Grade Kroger Operation, in contrast.
Stater Bros. seems to have better employees and is better staffed, but I think Ralphs beats them on product mix, probably due to Kroger's buying power. Stater is lacking in natural/organic products and also doesn't have the three tiers of house brands that Ralphs does. Overall, I definitely prefer Stater Bros. these days.
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by storewanderer »

HCal wrote: April 1st, 2022, 7:15 pm

Stater Bros. seems to have better employees and is better staffed, but I think Ralphs beats them on product mix, probably due to Kroger's buying power. Stater is lacking in natural/organic products and also doesn't have the three tiers of house brands that Ralphs does. Overall, I definitely prefer Stater Bros. these days.
I agree that Ralphs has a more appealing mix of products in center store (to me personally). As a tourist shopping, Stater does not do much for me. I am not really interested in meat, soda, chips, or canned/boxed goods as a tourist and those are the categories Stater seems to shine in. But when I look at all the people shopping at Stater and all of the buying they are doing, it is clear the perception is that this store is more than meeting their needs, it is hitting a home run, all day every day. I think if I actually lived near the store and was actually cooking I would find Stater to be a great place to shop for many items.

To be honest as a shopping tourist I actually preferred Amazon Fresh to Stater...

Stater seems to be trying on utilizing TopCo for the store brands but it doesn't seem to come off with the depth of Kroger. I saw Valu Time at Stater (haven't seen that label in a while; Raleys and Save Mart don't seem to slot it), and plenty of Cravn and Full Circle items. Also saw a few Food Club items at Stater.

I think that may be by design though. I am of the impression many shopping Stater tend to be the more "brand loyal" type of customer. I am not sure private label is a big draw there and that may be part of their appeal. This is going to be a problem in the future as customers are becoming less and less "brand loyal" to these big food CPGs.
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by storewanderer »

Thinking more about a potential strike and going back to 2004, these 3 chains Vons/Albertsons/Ralphs had 900 stores in SoCal between themselves. What is store count now?

Vons- 188 stores
Pavilions- 26 stores
Albertsons- 126 stores
Ralphs- 190 stores

Quite a miserable fall.

Meanwhile Stater Bros - while this isn't out of the park growth it isn't a material store count decline like the above groups...
Store count in 2004- 157 stores
Store count in 2021- 170 stores
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by CalItalian »

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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by CalItalian »

Grocery workers forge tentative labor agreement with Stater Bros.

Ralphs also has a statement in the article.

https://www.sbsun.com/2022/04/01/grocer ... socialflow
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Re: Southern California UFCW Contract Expiring 3/6/22

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: April 1st, 2022, 7:08 pm
Romr123 wrote: April 1st, 2022, 8:37 am yup...Stater feels like a West coast Market Basket. Unfortunately they seem viewed here in Palm Springs as slightly declasse, but we've had good luck there, with particularly good perimeter employees showing lots of hustle. Clearly they appeal to the local families rather than the leisure set--conversely though we got a delicious sushi tray a couple weeks ago (their franchisee seems different than the other ones and is located right at the entrance), and the service meat is just what the doctor ordered for a couple steaks on the grill.

Contrast to Ralphs at Ramon/Sunrise (a couple miles south) where as you walk in the door you get the whiff of overheated chicken fryers at the hot bar.
Stater having that declasse reputation is really not deserved at this point in time. The quality of their operation is the best in the market. The attitude of the employees is what really does the trick for Stater. They are really nothing special but it is the employees who make it something special. It is just surreal because in the 90's all of the grocers out west were like that when you went into their stores.... it is amazing how these other chains have fallen and this Stater group has been able to somehow maintain what in the 90's would have just been basic grocery 101 operations.

Ralphs at this point is basically a C Grade Kroger operation. Ralphs prices seem to have really fallen (next to Vons/Albertsons at least) so at least there is that. Ralphs pricing seems to be in line with Stater. Some of the nicer/cleaner Fresh Fare units are perhaps B- grade. I would call Smiths and Frys a B Grade Kroger operation and Fred Meyer once you get closer to Portland an A Grade Kroger Operation, in contrast.
Well, that is STILL their rep.

Well run unsophisticated grocer supplying the essentials to blue collar folks in a really friendly way.
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