Cocos and carrows

storewanderer
Posts: 14391
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: January 29th, 2023, 12:03 pm
storewanderer wrote: January 28th, 2023, 11:51 pm That Cocos in Costa Mesa is a building that was identical to the long-demolished "Cattins" building in Reno.

Recent reviews on the location are pretty good. Surprising. Interesting it closed given the positive reviews lately.

I think this segment of restaurant in general is, for lack of better words, pretty screwed.
I agree. There’s nothing wrong with Coco’s/Carrow’s, but this segment of the restaurant industry is in decay. I haven’t been in these establishments in years and have no plans to do so in the future. A piece of history, yes, but somethings are left in the past. For the pricing, you can get a better meal in a higher quality restaurant elsewhere.
Yet Denny's and IHOP seem to continue to be relevant... it is a mystery to me how or why.
Retailuser
Cashier
Cashier
Posts: 89
Joined: March 1st, 2022, 9:04 pm
Location: Chandler AZ
Been thanked: 15 times
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by Retailuser »

Counted them on the website and removed the closed ones that are still listed on the website and it looks like there are only 17 locations still open for cocos.
User avatar
retailfanmitchell019
Assistant Store Manager
Assistant Store Manager
Posts: 891
Joined: November 10th, 2019, 11:17 am
Location: 760 area code
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

storewanderer wrote: January 29th, 2023, 8:43 pm Yet Denny's and IHOP seem to continue to be relevant... it is a mystery to me how or why.
There are some reasons for success at Denny's.
Denny's has marketed themselves on being "always open", unlike Coco's/Carrows, who didn't usually have 24 hour service.
Denny's is one of the last fast casual diner places to operate nationally. They are a fixture along Interstate highways and in Flying J truck stops. Denny's profited off the demise of Sambo's (which went bankrupt due to having an offensive name, among other issues), and the scaling back of Perkins (went bankrupt twice, is mostly a Midwest chain).

I ate at Carrows once with my family as a little kid. We ate at the location in Laguna Hills (we were up there to visit friends). I felt like their pancakes tasted lousy.
The Carrows in Oceanside closed 8 years ago, it was torn down for an In-N-Out.
jamcool
Store Manager
Store Manager
Posts: 1019
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 10:27 pm
Been thanked: 50 times
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by jamcool »

Denny’s has also been building smaller restaurants, some in strip centers.
storewanderer
Posts: 14391
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by storewanderer »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:55 pm
storewanderer wrote: January 29th, 2023, 8:43 pm Yet Denny's and IHOP seem to continue to be relevant... it is a mystery to me how or why.
There are some reasons for success at Denny's.
Denny's has marketed themselves on being "always open", unlike Coco's/Carrows, who didn't usually have 24 hour service.
Denny's is one of the last fast casual diner places to operate nationally. They are a fixture along Interstate highways and in Flying J truck stops. Denny's profited off the demise of Sambo's (which went bankrupt due to having an offensive name, among other issues), and the scaling back of Perkins (went bankrupt twice, is mostly a Midwest chain).

I ate at Carrows once with my family as a little kid. We ate at the location in Laguna Hills (we were up there to visit friends). I felt like their pancakes tasted lousy.
The Carrows in Oceanside closed 8 years ago, it was torn down for an In-N-Out.
I thought Carrow's had lousy breakfast food as a kid. The pancake there seemed overly heavy/thick. For some reason Carrow's was still quite popular, seemed to have a wait list at breakfast even when the others didn't back in the old times. I thought Denny's was okay but IHOP had better pancakes plus the variety of syrup flavors. Later I started to notice IHOP seemed more expensive and served a smaller pancake.

On dinner food I thought Carrow's did a better job; larger menu, more variety, seemed to have more traffic at dinner than the others.

Denny's wasn't in Flying J stops until the Pilot take over of Flying J. Before that Flying J ran its own branded restaurants under I forget the name.
Bagels
Assistant Store Manager
Assistant Store Manager
Posts: 823
Joined: August 20th, 2018, 11:54 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by Bagels »

storewanderer wrote: January 29th, 2023, 8:43 pmYet Denny's and IHOP seem to continue to be relevant... it is a mystery to me how or why.
For how much longer? It's certainly not growing: domestically, the chain hasn't recorded a net increase in restaurant count in nearly ten years -- and it would've been longer if not for ~200 Flying J additions (early 2010s). Customer counts have been dropping for years and were helped out only by the value menu that existed in the 2010s.

IMO, Denny's remained relevant only because it offered inexpensive comfort food at highly trafficked locations. In SoCal, it now cost nearly $20 (including tax but before tip) for a classic breakfast (coffee, two eggs, choice of meat, breakfast potatoes & toast). Even in an era of ridiculous inflation, that's insane. Even with $8/dozen eggs, I could replicate this meal at home for a few bucks.

Gotta wonder how they'll handle the upcoming recession. They made it through the last one by selling corporate stores & introducing a value menu... but there's few corporate stores left to sell and franchisees are resistant of promotions...
storewanderer
Posts: 14391
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: February 1st, 2023, 1:50 pm

For how much longer? It's certainly not growing: domestically, the chain hasn't recorded a net increase in restaurant count in nearly ten years -- and it would've been longer if not for ~200 Flying J additions (early 2010s). Customer counts have been dropping for years and were helped out only by the value menu that existed in the 2010s.

IMO, Denny's remained relevant only because it offered inexpensive comfort food at highly trafficked locations. In SoCal, it now cost nearly $20 (including tax but before tip) for a classic breakfast (coffee, two eggs, choice of meat, breakfast potatoes & toast). Even in an era of ridiculous inflation, that's insane. Even with $8/dozen eggs, I could replicate this meal at home for a few bucks.

Gotta wonder how they'll handle the upcoming recession. They made it through the last one by selling corporate stores & introducing a value menu... but there's few corporate stores left to sell and franchisees are resistant of promotions...
I think a lot of franchisees out there with what I call greedy pricing (or maybe the prices are what they are due to high debt costs of the franchisee who over-paid for the units, then went in more debt for mandatory remodeling, crap like mandatory sign changes, etc.) are going to meet an unpleasant end. The question will be if they basically walk from locations, the banks get stuck with bad debt, then other franchisees come in and pick the locations up cheaply and do not have as much debt to service so they can support promotions better. But what I see more is large franchise groups come in, increase the prices even more, and it basically turns into a situation where the prices are just high and that is how it is for that brand; but the large franchisees will run promotions so the cost conscious customer can seek those out if they really want to.

What is funny in Reno area is there were a couple of Dennys opened in the 00's and both closed. Both have been revolving doors of Dennys-like concepts since closing. Meanwhile the old ones along the interstate highways from the 70's or 80's continue along. Dennys has also showed some odd signs of growth in recent years, for instance an old casino in Ely, NV replaced its in house restaurant with a Dennys.

One way these chains could try to capture more customers would be through better marketing of to go options, promotions on such items, and speed of service promises. I know they've tried online ordering, curbside, etc. but I think they need to push those avenues much harder.

I remember ~20 years ago Carrows would advertise a 3.99 "power breakfast" which was basically a copy of the Dennys Grand Slam which was priced similarly. I stayed next to a Carrows somewhere and thought what a great deal. Problem was by the time I went in there, spent 30-40 minutes which was longer than I wanted to spend, ordered a drink, left a tip, and paid the tax, I was up close to $10.
Bagels
Assistant Store Manager
Assistant Store Manager
Posts: 823
Joined: August 20th, 2018, 11:54 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by Bagels »

storewanderer wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 12:07 amI think a lot of franchisees out there with what I call greedy pricing (or maybe the prices are what they are due to high debt costs of the franchisee who over-paid for the units, then went in more debt for mandatory remodeling, crap like mandatory sign changes, etc.) are going to meet an unpleasant end. The question will be if they basically walk from locations, the banks get stuck with bad debt, then other franchisees come in and pick the locations up cheaply and do not have as much debt to service so they can support promotions better. But what I see more is large franchise groups come in, increase the prices even more, and it basically turns into a situation where the prices are just high and that is how it is for that brand; but the large franchisees will run promotions so the cost conscious customer can seek those out if they really want to.

What is funny in Reno area is there were a couple of Dennys opened in the 00's and both closed. Both have been revolving doors of Dennys-like concepts since closing. Meanwhile the old ones along the interstate highways from the 70's or 80's continue along. Dennys has also showed some odd signs of growth in recent years, for instance an old casino in Ely, NV replaced its in house restaurant with a Dennys.

One way these chains could try to capture more customers would be through better marketing of to go options, promotions on such items, and speed of service promises. I know they've tried online ordering, curbside, etc. but I think they need to push those avenues much harder.

I remember ~20 years ago Carrows would advertise a 3.99 "power breakfast" which was basically a copy of the Dennys Grand Slam which was priced similarly. I stayed next to a Carrows somewhere and thought what a great deal. Problem was by the time I went in there, spent 30-40 minutes which was longer than I wanted to spend, ordered a drink, left a tip, and paid the tax, I was up close to $10.
Norms had been heavily pushing "take home" meals -- small ready made meals (introduced at $5, increasing to $5.55). These have been recently discontinued. Norms reminds me a lot of Denny's in that it's raised its pricing (the "classic breakfasts" have literally doubled in price within the past year) and limited/ largely discontinued promotions. I'll never cease to bemused by morons dropping $50 for a basic breakfast for two, then complaining they're strapped for cash. If these morons would stop blowing their money we'd probably see some deflation. A $25pp basic breakfast out (including a glass of juice) is okay for an occasional treat, but shouldn't become a regular routine.

Denny's high-traffic locations and late night hours (hours are certainly expanding at locations near me, especially on weekends) will probably keep the chain relevant for awhile. But for long-term?

My first ever visit to Cocos (may have been a Carrows) was to the Garden Groove location that's a protected species these days, sometime in the late 1990s. I was a kid visiting Disneyland with my parents, my mom was lured by the "Power Breakfast" specials (she probably had a coupon as well, knowing her). She took one look at the menu and we walked out and went to the Red Lobster a few blocks up Harbor (surprisingly it's still open). I'm guessing the beverage prices were high - in "those days" (darn I'm getting old), soda was less than a $1 at chain restaurants. Kinda sad it's risen to $4-$5 today... (and I know veteran+'s thoughts on soda, but we all have bad habits and thankfully mine is just a Diet Coke with dinner or a meal out :) ).
storewanderer
Posts: 14391
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by storewanderer »

Dennys seems to have highly variable pricing.

I just pulled pricing for a unit in Carson City, NV
Grand Slam 9.99
Patty Melt 10.99
They also have a 10 item value menu with an "everyday value slam" at 5.99.
Soda/Coffee 2.99

Looked up the road 30 minutes to Reno- Plumb Lane- seems to have mostly the same prices as above. even .10 or .20 lower on some.

Moved another few miles to Reno-Wells Ave. (really unpleasant location) for these items.
There is a value menu but it only has about 6 items, no breakfasts.
Patty Mealt 11.79
Grand Slam 12.59
Soda/Coffee 3.59

Also pulled a Sacramento menu:
Location at 300 Bercut is offering the 5.99 Everyday Value Slam
Grand Slam 13.49
Patty Melt 12.99
Soda/Coffee 3.69

Did Norms stop its 3% "cost of doing business in California" surcharge? Norms only does business in California so that was really screwy.
veteran+
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2234
Joined: January 3rd, 2015, 7:53 am
Has thanked: 1204 times
Been thanked: 72 times
Status: Offline

Re: Cocos and carrows

Post by veteran+ »

Bagels wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 7:41 pm
storewanderer wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 12:07 amI think a lot of franchisees out there with what I call greedy pricing (or maybe the prices are what they are due to high debt costs of the franchisee who over-paid for the units, then went in more debt for mandatory remodeling, crap like mandatory sign changes, etc.) are going to meet an unpleasant end. The question will be if they basically walk from locations, the banks get stuck with bad debt, then other franchisees come in and pick the locations up cheaply and do not have as much debt to service so they can support promotions better. But what I see more is large franchise groups come in, increase the prices even more, and it basically turns into a situation where the prices are just high and that is how it is for that brand; but the large franchisees will run promotions so the cost conscious customer can seek those out if they really want to.

What is funny in Reno area is there were a couple of Dennys opened in the 00's and both closed. Both have been revolving doors of Dennys-like concepts since closing. Meanwhile the old ones along the interstate highways from the 70's or 80's continue along. Dennys has also showed some odd signs of growth in recent years, for instance an old casino in Ely, NV replaced its in house restaurant with a Dennys.

One way these chains could try to capture more customers would be through better marketing of to go options, promotions on such items, and speed of service promises. I know they've tried online ordering, curbside, etc. but I think they need to push those avenues much harder.

I remember ~20 years ago Carrows would advertise a 3.99 "power breakfast" which was basically a copy of the Dennys Grand Slam which was priced similarly. I stayed next to a Carrows somewhere and thought what a great deal. Problem was by the time I went in there, spent 30-40 minutes which was longer than I wanted to spend, ordered a drink, left a tip, and paid the tax, I was up close to $10.
Norms had been heavily pushing "take home" meals -- small ready made meals (introduced at $5, increasing to $5.55). These have been recently discontinued. Norms reminds me a lot of Denny's in that it's raised its pricing (the "classic breakfasts" have literally doubled in price within the past year) and limited/ largely discontinued promotions. I'll never cease to bemused by morons dropping $50 for a basic breakfast for two, then complaining they're strapped for cash. If these morons would stop blowing their money we'd probably see some deflation. A $25pp basic breakfast out (including a glass of juice) is okay for an occasional treat, but shouldn't become a regular routine.

Denny's high-traffic locations and late night hours (hours are certainly expanding at locations near me, especially on weekends) will probably keep the chain relevant for awhile. But for long-term?

My first ever visit to Cocos (may have been a Carrows) was to the Garden Groove location that's a protected species these days, sometime in the late 1990s. I was a kid visiting Disneyland with my parents, my mom was lured by the "Power Breakfast" specials (she probably had a coupon as well, knowing her). She took one look at the menu and we walked out and went to the Red Lobster a few blocks up Harbor (surprisingly it's still open). I'm guessing the beverage prices were high - in "those days" (darn I'm getting old), soda was less than a $1 at chain restaurants. Kinda sad it's risen to $4-$5 today... (and I know veteran+'s thoughts on soda, but we all have bad habits and thankfully mine is just a Diet Coke with dinner or a meal out :) ).


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Post Reply