La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: December 17th, 2022, 1:10 pm
ClownLoach wrote: December 17th, 2022, 2:47 am

At this point in time I would argue that Fresh Fare has become the equivalent of Safeway's dumbed down Pavilions of a decade ago. There are 4 tests going right now on Fresh Fare and all of them are effectively just Ralphs with a different sign. They are basically eliminating the format as we speak.

At this point you have to add a hell of a lot into a Ralphs Fresh Fare to bring it up to the Pavilions standard in remodeled stores. It is subtle since so much of the Pavilions format is honestly not much different from a higher end Albertsons, but they do stand for more than Fresh Fare does now.

Pavilions go forward includes premium breads baked in house, sushi bar, dramatically expanded liquor and wine with dedicated wine steward (up to 6 aisles of liquor), floral with expanded assortment and professional in store designer (I E someone who can actually do their own designs instead of recreating formula drawings), Santa Monica Seafood (way better source than whoever Albertsons and Kroger use), expanded hydroponic organic produce, juice bar, fancy humidity controlled service meat with Prime grade, dry age steaks, and so on. Literally all Fresh Fare gets now is Prime meats and maybe Murray's cheese if the store can fit it in. There really is no longer a comparison.

And to make it more clear - I just shopped the relatively new build Smiths in Henderson, NV. I'd argue it is more upscale in assortment than any Ralphs Fresh Fare despite being in the roughest part of the city - nowhere near the luxury of Green Valley Ranch. Which is probably why they're remodeling stores like San Clemente to this same Smiths decor now. They could have branded it Smiths Fresh Fare and gotten away with it.

Ralphs Fresh Fare is dead. It exists in name only now.
The Fresh Fare units still have some different bakery items, different deli items, different meat, expanded liquor, and some of the center store sets look different to me as well with items I don't recognize. But I think you are right this is seeming less and less unique. Plus, the Fresh Fare Stores need separate marketing. Hanging signs all over about "digital coupons" and other Kroger standard programs don't fit in this format; why are those signs up? They look cheap and tacky.

But based on how Kroger is handling the Ralphs Fresh Fare format, and that they have basically eliminated Fresh Fare from other areas away from Ralphs (used to have a couple of Smiths Fresh Fares in Las Vegas, some King Soopers Fresh Fare which is a total joke in its current state in Greenwood Village, some Kroger Fresh Fares in MI/TN and probably elsewhere...), does not bode well for the future of Pavilions, assuming Kroger actually ends up taking these Pavilions Stores over...

I've been saying for a few years now the present day Kroger is very much like the Steve Burd later era of Safeway in 2008, 2009, etc. It isn't quite as toxic yet but as a customer it is just as bad of a place to shop; private label program and some okay pricing are the only redeeming qualities of Kroger at this point.
I forgot to mention that the Foothill Ranch test has no Fresh Fare sign. It does have window graphics saying "welcome to Foothill Ranch Fresh Fare" over the door, and inside it has Fresh Fare wall graphics. But zero external signage. Again no sign of any commitment to this sub banner.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: December 17th, 2022, 11:04 pm

I forgot to mention that the Foothill Ranch test has no Fresh Fare sign. It does have window graphics saying "welcome to Foothill Ranch Fresh Fare" over the door, and inside it has Fresh Fare wall graphics. But zero external signage. Again no sign of any commitment to this sub banner.
Maybe they just haven't put signs up yet?

A lot of decisions will have to be made on what to do going forward. Who knows- maybe they will keep the Pavilions banner and run it as a true upscale format. But Kroger's history on odd formats that need to do one off things in individual locations isn't great. Look at that short lived Main & Vine up in WA.

It would be nice for the Fresh Fare Stores if they would just clean the stores up. Make them bright and shiny, with nice presentation again. Cut the clutter, cut the cheap looking standard Kroger marketing signs like digital coupons hanging from the ceiling, get rid of the bad bakery products (find an edible french bread, come on Kroger... find an edible french bread), etc.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by veteran+ »

ClownLoach wrote: December 17th, 2022, 11:04 pm
storewanderer wrote: December 17th, 2022, 1:10 pm
ClownLoach wrote: December 17th, 2022, 2:47 am

At this point in time I would argue that Fresh Fare has become the equivalent of Safeway's dumbed down Pavilions of a decade ago. There are 4 tests going right now on Fresh Fare and all of them are effectively just Ralphs with a different sign. They are basically eliminating the format as we speak.

At this point you have to add a hell of a lot into a Ralphs Fresh Fare to bring it up to the Pavilions standard in remodeled stores. It is subtle since so much of the Pavilions format is honestly not much different from a higher end Albertsons, but they do stand for more than Fresh Fare does now.

Pavilions go forward includes premium breads baked in house, sushi bar, dramatically expanded liquor and wine with dedicated wine steward (up to 6 aisles of liquor), floral with expanded assortment and professional in store designer (I E someone who can actually do their own designs instead of recreating formula drawings), Santa Monica Seafood (way better source than whoever Albertsons and Kroger use), expanded hydroponic organic produce, juice bar, fancy humidity controlled service meat with Prime grade, dry age steaks, and so on. Literally all Fresh Fare gets now is Prime meats and maybe Murray's cheese if the store can fit it in. There really is no longer a comparison.

And to make it more clear - I just shopped the relatively new build Smiths in Henderson, NV. I'd argue it is more upscale in assortment than any Ralphs Fresh Fare despite being in the roughest part of the city - nowhere near the luxury of Green Valley Ranch. Which is probably why they're remodeling stores like San Clemente to this same Smiths decor now. They could have branded it Smiths Fresh Fare and gotten away with it.

Ralphs Fresh Fare is dead. It exists in name only now.
The Fresh Fare units still have some different bakery items, different deli items, different meat, expanded liquor, and some of the center store sets look different to me as well with items I don't recognize. But I think you are right this is seeming less and less unique. Plus, the Fresh Fare Stores need separate marketing. Hanging signs all over about "digital coupons" and other Kroger standard programs don't fit in this format; why are those signs up? They look cheap and tacky.

But based on how Kroger is handling the Ralphs Fresh Fare format, and that they have basically eliminated Fresh Fare from other areas away from Ralphs (used to have a couple of Smiths Fresh Fares in Las Vegas, some King Soopers Fresh Fare which is a total joke in its current state in Greenwood Village, some Kroger Fresh Fares in MI/TN and probably elsewhere...), does not bode well for the future of Pavilions, assuming Kroger actually ends up taking these Pavilions Stores over...

I've been saying for a few years now the present day Kroger is very much like the Steve Burd later era of Safeway in 2008, 2009, etc. It isn't quite as toxic yet but as a customer it is just as bad of a place to shop; private label program and some okay pricing are the only redeeming qualities of Kroger at this point.
I forgot to mention that the Foothill Ranch test has no Fresh Fare sign. It does have window graphics saying "welcome to Foothill Ranch Fresh Fare" over the door, and inside it has Fresh Fare wall graphics. But zero external signage. Again no sign of any commitment to this sub banner.
I witnessed that exact same thing in Mission Valley. There was NO external indication the store was a Fresh Fare (that may have changed) AND did not show up as a Fresh Fare online.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: December 18th, 2022, 12:32 am
ClownLoach wrote: December 17th, 2022, 11:04 pm

I forgot to mention that the Foothill Ranch test has no Fresh Fare sign. It does have window graphics saying "welcome to Foothill Ranch Fresh Fare" over the door, and inside it has Fresh Fare wall graphics. But zero external signage. Again no sign of any commitment to this sub banner.
Maybe they just haven't put signs up yet?

A lot of decisions will have to be made on what to do going forward. Who knows- maybe they will keep the Pavilions banner and run it as a true upscale format. But Kroger's history on odd formats that need to do one off things in individual locations isn't great. Look at that short lived Main & Vine up in WA.

It would be nice for the Fresh Fare Stores if they would just clean the stores up. Make them bright and shiny, with nice presentation again. Cut the clutter, cut the cheap looking standard Kroger marketing signs like digital coupons hanging from the ceiling, get rid of the bad bakery products (find an edible french bread, come on Kroger... find an edible french bread), etc.
They know how to do all you mentioned. With their knowledge of Vandekamps there is no excuse. There is a very very large Fresh Fare in the La Jolla area on the way to Blacks Beach that is STELLAR!

There are stand out operations but that comes from uniquely outstanding Store Directors, not from anyone above them. I find this trickle down effect to most of their stores very disturbing, especially at Ralphs. Ralphs like King Soopers before Kroger were diamond operators with extraordinary reputations.

In fact when I was with King Soopers we traded and visited Ralphs to share best practices. It was a wonderful and fruitful program.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by veteran+ »

Pavilions started out as a very upscale operation with it's own higher payroll budget.

The back and forth betweeen Vons and Safeway diminished Pavilions, almost to extinction. Demographic changes found Pavilions sometimes in the wrong place. And those Pavilions Place stores were mostly ridiculous.

I think Albertsons seems to be more dedicated to the original Pavilions concept. I have spoken to the Store Manager in West Hollywood and she indicated it is one of the highest volume stores in the company and she has almost carte blanche.

Whatever happens, perhaps this small division might be worth saving? I just wish the prices were more in line.

Side note: The store's service, variety and organics are better than Gelsons and Whole Foods
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by Alpha8472 »

There is a Safeway in Alamo, California that converted to a Pavilions decor and now offers many expensive items just like a Pavilions. However, not many people know about it and traffic has not gone up. Maybe there needs to be a rebranding, but no one in Northern California knows what a Pavilions is all about.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by storewanderer »

Alpha8472 wrote: December 18th, 2022, 9:11 am There is a Safeway in Alamo, California that converted to a Pavilions decor and now offers many expensive items just like a Pavilions. However, not many people know about it and traffic has not gone up. Maybe there needs to be a rebranding, but no one in Northern California knows what a Pavilions is all about.
Alamo Safeway is a very high profit store. Despite low traffic in many dayparts, very high traffic. Also strong movement of fresh items/perimeter. This location is definitely a perfect candidate for a Pavilions-like store.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by Bluelightspecial »

Maybe this is more appropriate to the Spinco thread, but reading through all these posts on La Jolla proves my point about Pavilions. I would argue this also proves that Spinco would not just be Albertsons/Safeway stores they would sell some Ralph's stores to keep some of these locations that are high profile.

1. Safeway did dumb down Pavilions years ago, and Albertsons has tried to differentiate and make it more upscale.
2. Vons built some Pavilions in areas that they never should have before they were bought by Safeway (Upland!). Albertsons has already "culled" the stores by renaming many to Vons. Monrovia, Anaheim Hills, Arcadia.
3. Kroger is doing the same things to Fresh Fare that Safeway did before. There are some nasty Fresh Fares out there that are nothing special.
3. The Pavilions stores are some of the highest volume stores in Albertsons Southern California. I believe the West Hollywood store is one of the highest volumes in their entire fleet, or used to be. Why would they get rid of that for a 25k sq/ft dirty Fresh Fare down the street. The one's in Orange County, as someone else mentioned, are premium locations and high volume stores.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by ClownLoach »

veteran+ wrote: December 18th, 2022, 7:15 am
ClownLoach wrote: December 17th, 2022, 11:04 pm
storewanderer wrote: December 17th, 2022, 1:10 pm

The Fresh Fare units still have some different bakery items, different deli items, different meat, expanded liquor, and some of the center store sets look different to me as well with items I don't recognize. But I think you are right this is seeming less and less unique. Plus, the Fresh Fare Stores need separate marketing. Hanging signs all over about "digital coupons" and other Kroger standard programs don't fit in this format; why are those signs up? They look cheap and tacky.

But based on how Kroger is handling the Ralphs Fresh Fare format, and that they have basically eliminated Fresh Fare from other areas away from Ralphs (used to have a couple of Smiths Fresh Fares in Las Vegas, some King Soopers Fresh Fare which is a total joke in its current state in Greenwood Village, some Kroger Fresh Fares in MI/TN and probably elsewhere...), does not bode well for the future of Pavilions, assuming Kroger actually ends up taking these Pavilions Stores over...

I've been saying for a few years now the present day Kroger is very much like the Steve Burd later era of Safeway in 2008, 2009, etc. It isn't quite as toxic yet but as a customer it is just as bad of a place to shop; private label program and some okay pricing are the only redeeming qualities of Kroger at this point.
I forgot to mention that the Foothill Ranch test has no Fresh Fare sign. It does have window graphics saying "welcome to Foothill Ranch Fresh Fare" over the door, and inside it has Fresh Fare wall graphics. But zero external signage. Again no sign of any commitment to this sub banner.
I witnessed that exact same thing in Mission Valley. There was NO external indication the store was a Fresh Fare (that may have changed) AND did not show up as a Fresh Fare online.
Foothill got a new regular Ralphs sign and a full exterior repaint as part of the remodel. No Fresh Fare signage other than the window graphics.
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Re: La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

Post by ClownLoach »

veteran+ wrote: December 18th, 2022, 7:25 am
storewanderer wrote: December 18th, 2022, 12:32 am
ClownLoach wrote: December 17th, 2022, 11:04 pm

I forgot to mention that the Foothill Ranch test has no Fresh Fare sign. It does have window graphics saying "welcome to Foothill Ranch Fresh Fare" over the door, and inside it has Fresh Fare wall graphics. But zero external signage. Again no sign of any commitment to this sub banner.
Maybe they just haven't put signs up yet?

A lot of decisions will have to be made on what to do going forward. Who knows- maybe they will keep the Pavilions banner and run it as a true upscale format. But Kroger's history on odd formats that need to do one off things in individual locations isn't great. Look at that short lived Main & Vine up in WA.

It would be nice for the Fresh Fare Stores if they would just clean the stores up. Make them bright and shiny, with nice presentation again. Cut the clutter, cut the cheap looking standard Kroger marketing signs like digital coupons hanging from the ceiling, get rid of the bad bakery products (find an edible french bread, come on Kroger... find an edible french bread), etc.
They know how to do all you mentioned. With their knowledge of Vandekamps there is no excuse. There is a very very large Fresh Fare in the La Jolla area on the way to Blacks Beach that is STELLAR!

There are stand out operations but that comes from uniquely outstanding Store Directors, not from anyone above them. I find this trickle down effect to most of their stores very disturbing, especially at Ralphs. Ralphs like King Soopers before Kroger were diamond operators with extraordinary reputations.

In fact when I was with King Soopers we traded and visited Ralphs to share best practices. It was a wonderful and fruitful program.
I agree there are some stellar Fresh Fare stores. But they still lack a significant number of the features and merchandise that are in the current flagship level Pavilions stores - items and categories that add hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in sales like the extra premium liquor and Santa Monica Seafood. I am not aware of any Kroger stores that have wine or liquor at the top tier where they get highly allocated bourbons that could sell for thousands of dollars a bottle - but many Pavilions and even some Albertsons branded stores get these. They actually sell the stuff otherwise they would not be allocated for it. There is an entire next level tier of product that I just have not seen in any Fresh Fare store that Pavilions both carries and actually sells. I only bring it up because if these stores were "downgraded" from a Pavilions to a Fresh Fare with the current model then it would result in a real and measurable reduction in total sales and average order value. There is no way Kroger would want to see double digit AOV drops in any store.
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