La Jolla Vons to be converted to Pavilions

[storewanderer]

A last gasp for air for Pavilions if this merger goes through...

Maybe Gelson's is interested in another store.

[HCal]

If the merger goes through, it would be interesting to see what Kroger does with the Pavilions banner. They have never had a proper upscale chain in SoCal. Perhaps some of the Ralphs Fresh Fare locations could be converted to Pavilions, or even the regular Ralphs locations in more well-to-do neighborhoods. It would be a good way of differentiating between different market segments, and they might actually be able to reverse Safeway's blending of Pavilions and Vons.

[storewanderer]

If the merger goes through, it would be interesting to see what Kroger does with the Pavilions banner. They have never had a proper upscale chain in SoCal. Perhaps some of the Ralphs Fresh Fare locations could be converted to Pavilions, or even the regular Ralphs locations in more well-to-do neighborhoods. It would be a good way of differentiating between different market segments, and they might actually be able to reverse Safeway's blending of Pavilions and Vons.

What would the point of that be? Ralphs Fresh Fare is a more upscale format than Pavilions is... Pavilions is not a "proper" upscale chain. Kroger also does not have the competency to run a "proper" upscale chain and there is no use trying to be something they aren't.

Also the volumes of the Ralphs Fresh Fare units are drastically higher than Pavilions, especially in sales per square foot. I would expect any Pavilions locations retained, which is not likely to be many, to be converted to Ralphs Fresh Fare in short order.

Maybe someone else can buy Pavilions and turn it into a "proper" upscale chain though...

[ClownLoach]

If the merger goes through, it would be interesting to see what Kroger does with the Pavilions banner. They have never had a proper upscale chain in SoCal. Perhaps some of the Ralphs Fresh Fare locations could be converted to Pavilions, or even the regular Ralphs locations in more well-to-do neighborhoods. It would be a good way of differentiating between different market segments, and they might actually be able to reverse Safeway's blending of Pavilions and Vons.

What would the point of that be? Ralphs Fresh Fare is a more upscale format than Pavilions is... Pavilions is not a "proper" upscale chain. Kroger also does not have the competency to run a "proper" upscale chain and there is no use trying to be something they aren't.

Also the volumes of the Ralphs Fresh Fare units are drastically higher than Pavilions, especially in sales per square foot. I would expect any Pavilions locations retained, which is not likely to be many, to be converted to Ralphs Fresh Fare in short order.

Maybe someone else can buy Pavilions and turn it into a "proper" upscale chain though...

If they were to sell off the Pavilions stores it would mean a complete exit from Newport Beach. I suspect that they will not be interested in such a transaction. One of those stores off San Miguel was a nice Ralphs that was closed and went to Pavilions. The Pavilions on San Joaquin Hills is a very high volume store, has a extremely busy pharmacy and I would not be the least bit surprised if the liquor department sells in the thousands of dollars each hour the store is open. This liquor department alone pays the overhead for the entire store. The tasting counter is buried in customer special orders by the case of high end products - usually there are a few hundred special ordered cases there at any time and they get walk in business for four and yes even five figure transactions daily out of the wine cellar. Ralphs does not even know how to operate such a liquor department and I doubt they even have the connections to the very snobby distributors of high end product. This store even picks their own barrels of liquors just for that location. Probably the best run and one of the highest volume stores Albertsons Cos runs in SoCal region and a nameplate change would be perceived as a downgrade and frowned upon by the customer base here. Bristol Farms and Gelsons have high volume units right down the street and wouldn't be candidates for these. Pavilions has some unique stores that are truly operated as upper class stores especially San Joaquin Hills and the unlimited income customer base will not shop a perceived lesser brand.

[HCal]

If they were to sell off the Pavilions stores it would mean a complete exit from Newport Beach. I suspect that they will not be interested in such a transaction. One of those stores off San Miguel was a nice Ralphs that was closed and went to Pavilions. The Pavilions on San Joaquin Hills is a very high volume store, has a extremely busy pharmacy and I would not be the least bit surprised if the liquor department sells in the thousands of dollars each hour the store is open. This liquor department alone pays the overhead for the entire store. The tasting counter is buried in customer special orders by the case of high end products - usually there are a few hundred special ordered cases there at any time and they get walk in business for four and yes even five figure transactions daily. Probably the best run and one of the highest volume stores Albertsons Cos runs in SoCal region and a nameplate change would be perceived as a downgrade and frowned upon by the customer base here. Bristol Farms and Gelsons have high volume units right down the street and wouldn't be candidates for these. Pavilions has some unique stores that are truly operated as upper class stores especially San Joaquin Hills and the unlimited income customer base will not shop a perceived lesser brand.

Spot on. The rich areas of south OC are very profitable. They would be foolish to give that up by messing with a proven formula. This formula could probably also be replicated in other upscale markets such as West LA, Santa Barbara, etc. If Kroger doesn't have the knowledge to run an upscale store, maybe someone in Fullerton will be able to help.

[veteran+]

It happened: https://local.pavilions.com/ca/la-jolla ... d-ave.html
Might be the last Pavilions to open. I expect this store to convert back to Vons, or maybe even the Albertsons banner under SpinCo.
This would perhaps be the nicest Stater Bros. ever assuming they take the store.

Why do you think that?

La Jolla is upper middle class to wealthy. Also high educational credentials.

[veteran+]

If the merger goes through, it would be interesting to see what Kroger does with the Pavilions banner. They have never had a proper upscale chain in SoCal. Perhaps some of the Ralphs Fresh Fare locations could be converted to Pavilions, or even the regular Ralphs locations in more well-to-do neighborhoods. It would be a good way of differentiating between different market segments, and they might actually be able to reverse Safeway's blending of Pavilions and Vons.

Ralphs Fresh Fare is their version of Pavilions. The problem is their Fresh Fare in SOCAL is inconsistent.

I do not know how many Pavilions Place are left but they were inconsistent as well.

Perhaps Kroger will convert Pavilions to Fresh Fare and get rid of all those Fresh Fares that are really bad? I know that in West Hollywood, Fresh Fare does not hold in any way to Pavilions (except for price).

In about a 5 mile radius Pavilions is the showcase supermarket and largest in the area. This area is densely populated with high income. With traffic concerns in mind, you have to travel for too long to get to a really cool Fresh Fare.

[storewanderer]

If they were to sell off the Pavilions stores it would mean a complete exit from Newport Beach. I suspect that they will not be interested in such a transaction. One of those stores off San Miguel was a nice Ralphs that was closed and went to Pavilions. The Pavilions on San Joaquin Hills is a very high volume store, has a extremely busy pharmacy and I would not be the least bit surprised if the liquor department sells in the thousands of dollars each hour the store is open. This liquor department alone pays the overhead for the entire store. The tasting counter is buried in customer special orders by the case of high end products - usually there are a few hundred special ordered cases there at any time and they get walk in business for four and yes even five figure transactions daily. Probably the best run and one of the highest volume stores Albertsons Cos runs in SoCal region and a nameplate change would be perceived as a downgrade and frowned upon by the customer base here. Bristol Farms and Gelsons have high volume units right down the street and wouldn't be candidates for these. Pavilions has some unique stores that are truly operated as upper class stores especially San Joaquin Hills and the unlimited income customer base will not shop a perceived lesser brand.

Spot on. The rich areas of south OC are very profitable. They would be foolish to give that up by messing with a proven formula. This formula could probably also be replicated in other upscale markets such as West LA, Santa Barbara, etc. If Kroger doesn't have the knowledge to run an upscale store, maybe someone in Fullerton will be able to help.

It wouldn't be too hard for Kroger to keep that liquor department staff on hand and let them keep doing what they are doing (and I'd expect them to do just that).

After how Pavilions was run under Safeway and basically through the recent attempt by Albertsons to "revive" the brand, it was NOT an upscale store. It was just a standard old Safeway or Vons, with a nicer layout and more high cost products slotted in. Ralphs Fresh Fare from the early 2000's to the mid 2010's was running a far more upscale format in every location than any of the Pavilions that had been watered down by Safeway into a standard Vons, with a Pavilions sign out front, were... I also am not sure in the past few years as Albertsons has tried to "revive" Pavilions, exactly how much success they have had. They are obviously having some degree of success since we have another conversion just completed... or this is a last gasp of air by some Albertsons people who like the idea of reviving Pavilions who know their little Pavilions click is about to be Ralphed...

[ClownLoach]

If they were to sell off the Pavilions stores it would mean a complete exit from Newport Beach. I suspect that they will not be interested in such a transaction. One of those stores off San Miguel was a nice Ralphs that was closed and went to Pavilions. The Pavilions on San Joaquin Hills is a very high volume store, has a extremely busy pharmacy and I would not be the least bit surprised if the liquor department sells in the thousands of dollars each hour the store is open. This liquor department alone pays the overhead for the entire store. The tasting counter is buried in customer special orders by the case of high end products - usually there are a few hundred special ordered cases there at any time and they get walk in business for four and yes even five figure transactions daily. Probably the best run and one of the highest volume stores Albertsons Cos runs in SoCal region and a nameplate change would be perceived as a downgrade and frowned upon by the customer base here. Bristol Farms and Gelsons have high volume units right down the street and wouldn't be candidates for these. Pavilions has some unique stores that are truly operated as upper class stores especially San Joaquin Hills and the unlimited income customer base will not shop a perceived lesser brand.

Spot on. The rich areas of south OC are very profitable. They would be foolish to give that up by messing with a proven formula. This formula could probably also be replicated in other upscale markets such as West LA, Santa Barbara, etc. If Kroger doesn't have the knowledge to run an upscale store, maybe someone in Fullerton will be able to help.

It wouldn't be too hard for Kroger to keep that liquor department staff on hand and let them keep doing what they are doing (and I'd expect them to do just that).

After how Pavilions was run under Safeway and basically through the recent attempt by Albertsons to "revive" the brand, it was NOT an upscale store. It was just a standard old Safeway or Vons, with a nicer layout and more high cost products slotted in. Ralphs Fresh Fare from the early 2000's to the mid 2010's was running a far more upscale format in every location than any of the Pavilions that had been watered down by Safeway into a standard Vons, with a Pavilions sign out front, were... I also am not sure in the past few years as Albertsons has tried to "revive" Pavilions, exactly how much success they have had. They are obviously having some degree of success since we have another conversion just completed... or this is a last gasp of air by some Albertsons people who like the idea of reviving Pavilions who know their little Pavilions click is about to be Ralphed...

At this point in time I would argue that Fresh Fare has become the equivalent of Safeway's dumbed down Pavilions of a decade ago. There are 4 tests going right now on Fresh Fare and all of them are effectively just Ralphs with a different sign. They are basically eliminating the format as we speak.

Anaheim Hills - it's literally just a different sign. Not even Fresh Fare decor! Regular Ralphs decor now!

San Clemente Talega - the Smiths/more recent Fred Meyer decor was installed in the otherwise dumbing down of this Fresh Fare.

Two are trying to relaunch Fresh Fare as a Whole Foods competitor, but the reality is its Sprouts level execution instead. Both have new "barnwood" decor where they basically nailed old recycled wood to the walls and it is either just brown wood, white, or the distressed farmhouse look with letters painted on it. Some departments get some canvas framed. Seafood is now allegedly only sustainable sources.

Foothill Ranch - barnwood with all the usual organic/healthy food mixed into the various sections/planograms

Laguna Niguel - barnwood but in each aisle separate focus sections are made for the organics/healthy items, sometimes so poorly executed that the conventional is on one side and organic is on the other side

At this point you have to add a hell of a lot into a Ralphs Fresh Fare to bring it up to the Pavilions standard in remodeled stores. It is subtle since so much of the Pavilions format is honestly not much different from a higher end Albertsons, but they do stand for more than Fresh Fare does now.

Pavilions go forward includes premium breads baked in house, sushi bar, dramatically expanded liquor and wine with dedicated wine steward (up to 6 aisles of liquor), floral with expanded assortment and professional in store designer (I E someone who can actually do their own designs instead of recreating formula drawings), Santa Monica Seafood (way better source than whoever Albertsons and Kroger use), expanded hydroponic organic produce, juice bar, fancy humidity controlled service meat with Prime grade, dry age steaks, and so on. Literally all Fresh Fare gets now is Prime meats and maybe Murray's cheese if the store can fit it in. There really is no longer a comparison.

And to make it more clear - I just shopped the relatively new build Smiths in Henderson, NV. I'd argue it is more upscale in assortment than any Ralphs Fresh Fare despite being in the roughest part of the city - nowhere near the luxury of Green Valley Ranch. Which is probably why they're remodeling stores like San Clemente to this same Smiths decor now. They could have branded it Smiths Fresh Fare and gotten away with it.

Ralphs Fresh Fare is dead. It exists in name only now. I agree that Pavilions will need to thin the herd of some marginal stores that should still be Vons or Albertsons or whatever after the merger, but in reality Ralphs Fresh Fare would serve as a massive downgrade that would lower sales in the prime performing Pavilions stores. And we haven't seen the last of San Diego Vons conversions either; La Costa should be next. It was going to be done in 2019 but it was delayed by construction of a movie theater in the complex which reduced parking and then the pandemic hit. I personally saw the parking lot plan for staging of construction containers when it was presented to neighboring stores (who all were unhappy with the plan)

[storewanderer]

At this point in time I would argue that Fresh Fare has become the equivalent of Safeway's dumbed down Pavilions of a decade ago. There are 4 tests going right now on Fresh Fare and all of them are effectively just Ralphs with a different sign. They are basically eliminating the format as we speak.

At this point you have to add a hell of a lot into a Ralphs Fresh Fare to bring it up to the Pavilions standard in remodeled stores. It is subtle since so much of the Pavilions format is honestly not much different from a higher end Albertsons, but they do stand for more than Fresh Fare does now.

Pavilions go forward includes premium breads baked in house, sushi bar, dramatically expanded liquor and wine with dedicated wine steward (up to 6 aisles of liquor), floral with expanded assortment and professional in store designer (I E someone who can actually do their own designs instead of recreating formula drawings), Santa Monica Seafood (way better source than whoever Albertsons and Kroger use), expanded hydroponic organic produce, juice bar, fancy humidity controlled service meat with Prime grade, dry age steaks, and so on. Literally all Fresh Fare gets now is Prime meats and maybe Murray's cheese if the store can fit it in. There really is no longer a comparison.

And to make it more clear - I just shopped the relatively new build Smiths in Henderson, NV. I'd argue it is more upscale in assortment than any Ralphs Fresh Fare despite being in the roughest part of the city - nowhere near the luxury of Green Valley Ranch. Which is probably why they're remodeling stores like San Clemente to this same Smiths decor now. They could have branded it Smiths Fresh Fare and gotten away with it.

Ralphs Fresh Fare is dead. It exists in name only now.

The Fresh Fare units still have some different bakery items, different deli items, different meat, expanded liquor, and some of the center store sets look different to me as well with items I don't recognize. But I think you are right this is seeming less and less unique. Plus, the Fresh Fare Stores need separate marketing. Hanging signs all over about "digital coupons" and other Kroger standard programs don't fit in this format; why are those signs up? They look cheap and tacky.

But based on how Kroger is handling the Ralphs Fresh Fare format, and that they have basically eliminated Fresh Fare from other areas away from Ralphs (used to have a couple of Smiths Fresh Fares in Las Vegas, some King Soopers Fresh Fare which is a total joke in its current state in Greenwood Village, some Kroger Fresh Fares in MI/TN and probably elsewhere...), does not bode well for the future of Pavilions, assuming Kroger actually ends up taking these Pavilions Stores over...

I've been saying for a few years now the present day Kroger is very much like the Steve Burd later era of Safeway in 2008, 2009, etc. It isn't quite as toxic yet but as a customer it is just as bad of a place to shop; private label program and some okay pricing are the only redeeming qualities of Kroger at this point.