Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

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Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by pseudo3d »

This is flying a bit under the radar, but the Southern Division is getting another store, this time in Irving, in a former Minyard-turned-Fiesta. The store opened as a regular Minyard in 1974 (30,000 square feet), expanded to 50,000 square feet in the early 1990s, survived the cuts made in the 2000s and 2010s and was converted to Fiesta following their purchase of the chain in 2016. I'm not sure when it closed, no later than 2020 but no earlier than 2018.

Now, Albertsons is planning to open a store at the site with some sort of tax breaks, and it's Albertsons LLC making the deal as opposed to Randalls Food & Drug LP (the legal successor to Randalls under Safeway's control and has opened stores under Albertsons' control). Apparently the plan was works for two years.

It's interesting that they seem to want to open it as Albertsons--either the name isn't as doomed as thought in DFW, or they don't want to sully the Tom Thumb name in what is clearly a working-class suburb.

https://patch.com/texas/irving-tx/love- ... uth-irving
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

Despite the supposed strategic reorganization ongoing, the fact that they're opening new stores certainly doesn't bode well for them leaving DFW any time soon (which is disappointing).

With the locations of the confirmed H-E-B stores in DFW, the common denominator is that none of them are near a Tom Thumb/Albertson's. For whatever (IMO ridiculous) reason and mich to the chagrin of those in the heart of DFW who can't stand Tom Thumb/Albertson's, H-E-B seems to be most afraid of them.
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by pseudo3d »

DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: April 10th, 2022, 12:02 am Despite the supposed strategic reorganization ongoing, the fact that they're opening new stores certainly doesn't bode well for them leaving DFW any time soon (which is disappointing).

With the locations of the confirmed H-E-B stores in DFW, the common denominator is that none of them are near a Tom Thumb/Albertson's. For whatever (IMO ridiculous) reason and mich to the chagrin of those in the heart of DFW who can't stand Tom Thumb/Albertson's, H-E-B seems to be most afraid of them.
Wait, you think it's disappointing that they're not leaving Dallas? ...in any case, everything about leaving markets was 100% speculation, and the only markets that seem to be definitely dying is Houston and Austin, which (especially Houston) have pretty much been on a slow burn since 2005. WinCo also seems to be another wrench in expanding throughout the area. I don't think H-E-B is necessarily afraid of Tom Thumb/Albertsons, but they just can't expand through Dallas like they did with Houston. In Houston, they were able to make huge inroads through the self-destruction of their competition, which I described as a "series of lucky breaks" in another thread.

From other sources and information filed, the Irving store is definitely going to be a budget remodel and not a showpiece...the exterior won't be altered.
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

pseudo3d wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:00 am
DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: April 10th, 2022, 12:02 am Despite the supposed strategic reorganization ongoing, the fact that they're opening new stores certainly doesn't bode well for them leaving DFW any time soon (which is disappointing).

With the locations of the confirmed H-E-B stores in DFW, the common denominator is that none of them are near a Tom Thumb/Albertson's. For whatever (IMO ridiculous) reason and mich to the chagrin of those in the heart of DFW who can't stand Tom Thumb/Albertson's, H-E-B seems to be most afraid of them.
Wait, you think it's disappointing that they're not leaving Dallas?...
For me (and I'm sure many other shoppers in DFW), yes. I don't like them nor Kroger.

If one or both of them leaving would make room for better operated grocers to enter the market and serve the areas where they're now heavily entrenched, since there would be less perceived competition, then I say god speed.
I don't think H-E-B is necessarily afraid of Tom Thumb/Albertsons
My speculation that H-E-B seems to be most afraid of Tom Thumb / Albertsons was an educated guess on my part because:

*3 of the first 4 stores they have been actively moving forward with (Frisco, McKinney and Forney) would be competing directly with a Kroger within a mile of the store.

*Of all the land they own throughout DFW, only a few of those parcel are in Dallas County (where Tom Thumb's concentration of stores is the greatest), and of those few parcels in Dallas County, only 3 of them (Redbird, Buckner Terrance and DeSoto) are not slated for a Central Market.
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by storewanderer »

Do we know for sure this is Albertsons doing this and it is not being done for El Rancho?

Then again if Fiesta failed there, I don't think El Rancho would work.

It looks like Fiesta opened the store using Minyard decor, then did a wall repaint a couple years later, then closed a couple years later. Fiesta appears to have had traffic, but it probably wasn't enough for Fiesta. I don't know why they bought the store in the first place.

It will be interesting to see what kind of store they come up with here. Doesn't look like the right location for their pricing structure.
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by pseudo3d »

storewanderer wrote: April 10th, 2022, 12:52 pm Do we know for sure this is Albertsons doing this and it is not being done for El Rancho?

Then again if Fiesta failed there, I don't think El Rancho would work.

It looks like Fiesta opened the store using Minyard decor, then did a wall repaint a couple years later, then closed a couple years later. Fiesta appears to have had traffic, but it probably wasn't enough for Fiesta. I don't know why they bought the store in the first place.

It will be interesting to see what kind of store they come up with here. Doesn't look like the right location for their pricing structure.
All indications between the city (referring to Albertsons LLC and not any other subsidiary or associated company) and current filings (see this page, though out until 5 pm CST) indicate it will be branded as an Albertsons.

Fiesta bought it as part of buying the entirety of Minyard in 2016, which included the Minyard Sun Fresh Market stores. The Minyard chain has been falling apart for years, starting in 2004 when the original owners sold off and eventually more and more stores were sold. Fiesta ended up closing down many of the stores (including MSFM) within one or two years, though for whatever reason. This particular store closed in 2020, and given some of the "working with Albertsons for two years" indicates Albertsons was aware of the reason of the neighborhood and whatever reasons it closed. This doesn't look like the ol' "go into an iffy neighborhood with a giant 60k square foot store and close within three years" issue that pre-2004 Albertsons grappled with. Still, trying to get the pricing and merchandise mix right will be an issue.

The closest Kroger to the store is a former Safeway that Kroger has been operating since the late 1980s since the original Safeway Dallas division left.
DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:51 am

My speculation that H-E-B seems to be most afraid of Tom Thumb / Albertsons was an educated guess on my part because:

*3 of the first 4 stores they have been actively moving forward with (Frisco, McKinney and Forney) would be competing directly with a Kroger within a mile of the store.

*Of all the land they own throughout DFW, only a few of those parcel are in Dallas County (where Tom Thumb's concentration of stores is the greatest), and of those few parcels in Dallas County, only 3 of them (Redbird, Buckner Terrance and DeSoto) are not slated for a Central Market.

Here in the rest of the I-35, H-E-B is the entrenched grocery store, and I don't like that fact. Sure, there are niceties that H-E-B has that the others don't, but there are brands and items that are rare just because H-E-B has such a hold in the market. And because H-E-B builds and operates its stores to be high-volume stores, most grocery adventures can be downright miserable.

Their lack of stores with Albertsons can be explained by the fact that H-E-B's new builds exceed 100k square feet, usually topping out around 120k square feet, and all of them are designed for heavy foot traffic. (The Tom Thumb/Albertsons stores tend to have half of that). In exceedingly rare cases, H-E-B will close stores that it deems to be neither reaching the traffic it needs, be able to expand, or entrenched enough to keep multiple lower-volume stores open. They closed a somewhat smaller store in Houston in this rare case, leading to a surprising win for Randalls.

A few other factors as to why they're not competing with Albertsons can be explained as such--in the suburbs, both Safeway and Albertsons dramatically slowed store growth in the mid-2000s and never really picked it up again, while Kroger was going full speed ahead until around the mid to late 2010s, when it began to drop off. Meanwhile, in the more established areas, what real estate H-E-B has is (acquired through some Minyard sales) not at all suited to their current prototype, and they refuse to open them as any brand. It's possible that Central Market stores are marginally profitable, if it all.

I can imagine Albertsons getting back these stores if they pull up stakes in Houston for good and sell some to H-E-B, but with Albertsons not making any sudden moves in Houston and H-E-B circling around the Metroplex, that's not likely to happen.
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by DFWRetaileWatcher »

pseudo3d wrote: April 10th, 2022, 2:01 pm
storewanderer wrote: April 10th, 2022, 12:52 pm Do we know for sure this is Albertsons doing this and it is not being done for El Rancho?

Then again if Fiesta failed there, I don't think El Rancho would work.

It looks like Fiesta opened the store using Minyard decor, then did a wall repaint a couple years later, then closed a couple years later. Fiesta appears to have had traffic, but it probably wasn't enough for Fiesta. I don't know why they bought the store in the first place.

It will be interesting to see what kind of store they come up with here. Doesn't look like the right location for their pricing structure.
All indications between the city (referring to Albertsons LLC and not any other subsidiary or associated company) and current filings (see this page, though out until 5 pm CST) indicate it will be branded as an Albertsons.

Fiesta bought it as part of buying the entirety of Minyard in 2016, which included the Minyard Sun Fresh Market stores. The Minyard chain has been falling apart for years, starting in 2004 when the original owners sold off and eventually more and more stores were sold. Fiesta ended up closing down many of the stores (including MSFM) within one or two years, though for whatever reason. This particular store closed in 2020, and given some of the "working with Albertsons for two years" indicates Albertsons was aware of the reason of the neighborhood and whatever reasons it closed. This doesn't look like the ol' "go into an iffy neighborhood with a giant 60k square foot store and close within three years" issue that pre-2004 Albertsons grappled with. Still, trying to get the pricing and merchandise mix right will be an issue.

The closest Kroger to the store is a former Safeway that Kroger has been operating since the late 1980s since the original Safeway Dallas division left.
DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:51 am

My speculation that H-E-B seems to be most afraid of Tom Thumb / Albertsons was an educated guess on my part because:

*3 of the first 4 stores they have been actively moving forward with (Frisco, McKinney and Forney) would be competing directly with a Kroger within a mile of the store.

*Of all the land they own throughout DFW, only a few of those parcel are in Dallas County (where Tom Thumb's concentration of stores is the greatest), and of those few parcels in Dallas County, only 3 of them (Redbird, Buckner Terrance and DeSoto) are not slated for a Central Market.

Here in the rest of the I-35, H-E-B is the entrenched grocery store, and I don't like that fact. Sure, there are niceties that H-E-B has that the others don't, but there are brands and items that are rare just because H-E-B has such a hold in the market. And because H-E-B builds and operates its stores to be high-volume stores, most grocery adventures can be downright miserable.

Their lack of stores with Albertsons can be explained by the fact that H-E-B's new builds exceed 100k square feet, usually topping out around 120k square feet, and all of them are designed for heavy foot traffic. (The Tom Thumb/Albertsons stores tend to have half of that). In exceedingly rare cases, H-E-B will close stores that it deems to be neither reaching the traffic it needs, be able to expand, or entrenched enough to keep multiple lower-volume stores open. They closed a somewhat smaller store in Houston in this rare case, leading to a surprising win for Randalls.

A few other factors as to why they're not competing with Albertsons can be explained as such--in the suburbs, both Safeway and Albertsons dramatically slowed store growth in the mid-2000s and never really picked it up again, while Kroger was going full speed ahead until around the mid to late 2010s, when it began to drop off. Meanwhile, in the more established areas, what real estate H-E-B has is (acquired through some Minyard sales) not at all suited to their current prototype, and they refuse to open them as any brand. It's possible that Central Market stores are marginally profitable, if it all.

I can imagine Albertsons getting back these stores if they pull up stakes in Houston for good and sell some to H-E-B, but with Albertsons not making any sudden moves in Houston and H-E-B circling around the Metroplex, that's not likely to happen.
We will have to agree to disagree with your first paragraph. Having a bunch of grocery options to choose from (which DFW does have) is meaingless IMO if they're all varying forms of mediocre. The Tom Thumbs / Albertsons in the heart of DFW are extremely dated (even with their "budget renovations" ), have poor customer service / staffing levels, much higher pricing and lack many of the frills H-E-B has such as the high-quality store brand and prepared meals. That said, maybe I'm just picky when it comes to my grocery shopping experience. I want a Wegmans / Publix-type experience (H-E-B comes closest in Texas to offering this), and without having to drive so far for it.

As far as property H-E-B owns around DFW, I'm pretty sure they sold whatever Minyard stores they owned.

While it's somewhat dated (it doesn't include the land in Melissa and the old Albertsons they just bought in Redbird), below is a detailed map of the parcels H-E-B owns. What you will notice is they own considerably fewer parcels in Dallas County than the other DFW Core Counties (Tarrant, Collin and Denton), not counting the existing or proposed (Bishop Arts) Central Market stores.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit? ... 325793&z=8

As far as H-E-B's store size, it's true the average size of their newer stores tend to exceed 100K sq. ft, but they do still operate a number of modernized and profitable stores in the 50 - 60kt sq. ft. range that could easily fit into many of the "larger" Albertsons & Minyard's that are now shuttered. One of these "smaller" H -E-B stores that comes to mind is the location in Texas City.

And yes, I know *WHY* there are fewer Tom Thumb / Albertsons stores outside the heart of DFW. But that doesn't explain why H-E-B seems more willing to go head-to-head against Kroger with their initial entrance into DFW and seems hesistant to open stores that would compete directly with Tom Thumb / Albertsons. Real estate is more limited in Dallas County, that is true, but I can still think of a few parcels that could easily accommodate their store (newer prototype or otherwise).
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by storewanderer »

DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:51 am
My speculation that H-E-B seems to be most afraid of Tom Thumb / Albertsons was an educated guess on my part because:

*3 of the first 4 stores they have been actively moving forward with (Frisco, McKinney and Forney) would be competing directly with a Kroger within a mile of the store.

*Of all the land they own throughout DFW, only a few of those parcel are in Dallas County (where Tom Thumb's concentration of stores is the greatest), and of those few parcels in Dallas County, only 3 of them (Redbird, Buckner Terrance and DeSoto) are not slated for a Central Market.
One has to wonder why they would be afraid of Albertsons/Tom Thumb. Maybe they are going after Kroger because of the current state of Kroger... Kroger's operation has deteriorated significantly from 5-8 years ago; their pricing is not as sharp as before and service levels/execution are way worse than before. Yet Kroger is still pulling in pretty high volumes. But are customers satisfied with Kroger, or just going there out of habit? Conversely I would argue Albertsons/Tom Thumb which I still consider to be inferior to Kroger in most ways, has somewhat improved its pricing and is absolutely giving stores more labor dollars than they were 5-8 years ago, and I think has grown business even if just a little bit.

I really think WinCo has thrown a bit of a curve in HEB's plans. It was bold for WinCo to make the expansion move they did, given the ongoing "HEB is coming" talk. Too much talk and too little action from HEB, I guess. At least something is finally happening, though the cynical side of me says I'll believe it when I see a store actually operating and selling groceries.
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by pseudo3d »

DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: April 10th, 2022, 7:08 pm
pseudo3d wrote: April 10th, 2022, 2:01 pm
storewanderer wrote: April 10th, 2022, 12:52 pm Do we know for sure this is Albertsons doing this and it is not being done for El Rancho?

Then again if Fiesta failed there, I don't think El Rancho would work.

It looks like Fiesta opened the store using Minyard decor, then did a wall repaint a couple years later, then closed a couple years later. Fiesta appears to have had traffic, but it probably wasn't enough for Fiesta. I don't know why they bought the store in the first place.

It will be interesting to see what kind of store they come up with here. Doesn't look like the right location for their pricing structure.
All indications between the city (referring to Albertsons LLC and not any other subsidiary or associated company) and current filings (see this page, though out until 5 pm CST) indicate it will be branded as an Albertsons.

Fiesta bought it as part of buying the entirety of Minyard in 2016, which included the Minyard Sun Fresh Market stores. The Minyard chain has been falling apart for years, starting in 2004 when the original owners sold off and eventually more and more stores were sold. Fiesta ended up closing down many of the stores (including MSFM) within one or two years, though for whatever reason. This particular store closed in 2020, and given some of the "working with Albertsons for two years" indicates Albertsons was aware of the reason of the neighborhood and whatever reasons it closed. This doesn't look like the ol' "go into an iffy neighborhood with a giant 60k square foot store and close within three years" issue that pre-2004 Albertsons grappled with. Still, trying to get the pricing and merchandise mix right will be an issue.

The closest Kroger to the store is a former Safeway that Kroger has been operating since the late 1980s since the original Safeway Dallas division left.
DFWRetaileWatcher wrote: April 10th, 2022, 8:51 am

My speculation that H-E-B seems to be most afraid of Tom Thumb / Albertsons was an educated guess on my part because:

*3 of the first 4 stores they have been actively moving forward with (Frisco, McKinney and Forney) would be competing directly with a Kroger within a mile of the store.

*Of all the land they own throughout DFW, only a few of those parcel are in Dallas County (where Tom Thumb's concentration of stores is the greatest), and of those few parcels in Dallas County, only 3 of them (Redbird, Buckner Terrance and DeSoto) are not slated for a Central Market.

Here in the rest of the I-35, H-E-B is the entrenched grocery store, and I don't like that fact. Sure, there are niceties that H-E-B has that the others don't, but there are brands and items that are rare just because H-E-B has such a hold in the market. And because H-E-B builds and operates its stores to be high-volume stores, most grocery adventures can be downright miserable.

Their lack of stores with Albertsons can be explained by the fact that H-E-B's new builds exceed 100k square feet, usually topping out around 120k square feet, and all of them are designed for heavy foot traffic. (The Tom Thumb/Albertsons stores tend to have half of that). In exceedingly rare cases, H-E-B will close stores that it deems to be neither reaching the traffic it needs, be able to expand, or entrenched enough to keep multiple lower-volume stores open. They closed a somewhat smaller store in Houston in this rare case, leading to a surprising win for Randalls.

A few other factors as to why they're not competing with Albertsons can be explained as such--in the suburbs, both Safeway and Albertsons dramatically slowed store growth in the mid-2000s and never really picked it up again, while Kroger was going full speed ahead until around the mid to late 2010s, when it began to drop off. Meanwhile, in the more established areas, what real estate H-E-B has is (acquired through some Minyard sales) not at all suited to their current prototype, and they refuse to open them as any brand. It's possible that Central Market stores are marginally profitable, if it all.

I can imagine Albertsons getting back these stores if they pull up stakes in Houston for good and sell some to H-E-B, but with Albertsons not making any sudden moves in Houston and H-E-B circling around the Metroplex, that's not likely to happen.
We will have to agree to disagree with your first paragraph. Having a bunch of grocery options to choose from (which DFW does have) is meaingless IMO if they're all varying forms of mediocre. The Tom Thumbs / Albertsons in the heart of DFW are extremely dated (even with their "budget renovations" ), have poor customer service / staffing levels, much higher pricing and lack many of the frills H-E-B has such as the high-quality store brand and prepared meals. That said, maybe I'm just picky when it comes to my grocery shopping experience. I want a Wegmans / Publix-type experience (H-E-B comes closest in Texas to offering this), and without having to drive so far for it.

As far as property H-E-B owns around DFW, I'm pretty sure they sold whatever Minyard stores they owned.

While it's somewhat dated (it doesn't include the land in Melissa and the old Albertsons they just bought in Redbird), below is a detailed map of the parcels H-E-B owns. What you will notice is they own considerably fewer parcels in Dallas County than the other DFW Core Counties (Tarrant, Collin and Denton), not counting the existing or proposed (Bishop Arts) Central Market stores.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit? ... 325793&z=8

As far as H-E-B's store size, it's true the average size of their newer stores tend to exceed 100K sq. ft, but they do still operate a number of modernized and profitable stores in the 50 - 60kt sq. ft. range that could easily fit into many of the "larger" Albertsons & Minyard's that are now shuttered. One of these "smaller" H -E-B stores that comes to mind is the location in Texas City.

And yes, I know *WHY* there are fewer Tom Thumb / Albertsons stores outside the heart of DFW. But that doesn't explain why H-E-B seems more willing to go head-to-head against Kroger with their initial entrance into DFW and seems hesistant to open stores that would compete directly with Tom Thumb / Albertsons. Real estate is more limited in Dallas County, that is true, but I can still think of a few parcels that could easily accommodate their store (newer prototype or otherwise).
I wouldn't compare H-E-B to Wegmans or Publix. They offer almost no prepared food options in their perishable departments. Occasionally, they might have an in-house restaurant concept (a pick-up counter with seating), serving flame-grilled chicken, pizza, or barbecue, but they don't make sandwiches in the deli like Publix or anything that Wegmans has. Albertsons/Safeway DOES have sandwiches and hot food options (as well as cold food options). It's not executed consistently but it's at least there. H-E-B’s meals that you heat up at home aren't what they used to be--rising meat prices have bumped off a lot of the steak-based options, and when I tried a "low-carb" option (just steak and vegetables), there was some sort of sauce on the squash (or some other vegetable) that just smelled repulsive.

The bakery at the store back home (Jones Crossing) had some great pastries initially beyond the basic donuts and "pan dulces" (a bastardization of the concept), but after the pandemic, those never returned, even when the rest of the perishable departments came back to life.

I guess overall, their perishables are fine, better than Kroger's, but nothing to write home about.

And that's if you get a "good store". The Texas City store is mediocre, downscale, and missing features. Their website indicates that the deli doesn’t even have Boar's Head. It doesn't matter there because H-E-B has a hold in the area, whereas such a mediocre store in Dallas would be eaten alive. H-E-B is playing it smart (as any grocer should) be making a big entrance with a new market. Hence, their big stores planned for North Dallas, and their big store they opened in Lubbock. (I mentioned this on another thread--H-E-B could open two flagship stores in north Dallas, and even if they underperform, they can still "win" by not pulling out).

By the way, the Dallas Morning News did add an article (original / archive) regarding the new Irving Albertsons store, including some of the incentives involved.
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Re: Albertsons to reopen former Minyard/Fiesta in Irving

Post by Greggo »

Total remodel value is $2.6 million, according to that DMN story. The city is offering a $300,000 grant towards those costs, plus rebates over time on sales taxes and property taxes.

I’ll be interested to see what $2.6 million can do for that sad space. At least part of that money is earmarked for parking lot improvements, according to the story, so I guess Albertsons is gonna slap down some new asphalt. Seems like that should be the responsibility of the landlord, but …

Considering all the Southern Division store closures in the past few years (primarily in Houston, but some in Dallas and Austin), I’m guessing many of the fixtures such as refrigeration and checkstands will be hand-me-downs. Heck, they might even come straight from the Sugar Land store that’s in the process of closing now. They can’t go too cheap though because then they start to do damage to the Albertsons brand … or what’s left of it.
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