Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

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Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by storewanderer »

Wegmans announced by the end of the year they will eliminate plastic bags from all stores. About 45 of their stores are not (yet) subject to any local bag regulations.

So their solution is to implement a paper bag fee in all stores and eliminate plastic bags.

They further state the fee is donated to some large non profit group if you pay the bag fee.

We will see how this works out for them. They clearly think consumers will accept this. And perhaps the consumers will.

Whole Foods and Trader Joe's (until COVID) were paper bag by default with no fees involved. Whole Foods does a charity donation if you use a reusable bag.

Absent other retailers with a bag fee in a given market, this will likely hurt Wegmans if they are the only grocer in the market charging a bag fee. It also comes off as low end for what is supposed to be a higher end store.

In Canada most retailers charged a 5 cent bag fee by 2021, most still offered plastic bags and some did this same thing saying they donate the fee to charity. More recently regulation has taken place banning the plastic bags and adding higher fees to paper bags (25 cents etc.).
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by HCal »

Wegmans has 106 stores. If only 45 of them are not subject to a mandatory bag fee (and that number is likely to keep dropping) then it's probably easier to just have the charge everywhere for consistency. Some people may complain, but I doubt very many will actually shop elsewhere, as Wegmans has high brand loyalty and it is much easier to remember to bring reusable bags than to drive to another store. But this is long overdue, hopefully it spurs other retailers to do the same.
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by storewanderer »

HCal wrote: April 17th, 2022, 1:35 am Wegmans has 106 stores. If only 45 of them are not subject to a mandatory bag fee (and that number is likely to keep dropping) then it's probably easier to just have the charge everywhere for consistency. Some people may complain, but I doubt very many will actually shop elsewhere, as Wegmans has high brand loyalty and it is much easier to remember to bring reusable bags than to drive to another store. But this is long overdue, hopefully it spurs other retailers to do the same.
I think they are trying to use this as a way to stem additional bag regulations from coming against their stores. They can take this and say- look- we already did this- so you don't need to regulate it. This way they do it on their terms and they are in control of it.

Also the Big Y Chain in MA/CT has had a 10 cent paper bag fee since 2019. Neither state has a statewide bag fee. CT previously had a statewide 10 cent fee on thin plastic bags but that fee ended in 2021 and the bags are banned now. However, there is no mandated paper bag fee in CT.

The reason I say this is some of these laws are getting messy for the retailer. The Colorado Bag Ban which goes into effect in 2023 requires a 10 cent fee (thin bags are okay in 2023 then banned starting in 2024). That law, requires the store to remit 6 cents to the locality the store is in quarterly, then the store gets to keep the other 4 cents. The law applies to ALL retailers and restaurants however if a retailer is a "small store" that has only 3 stores and all 3 stores are in CO the retailer is exempt. But if you have, 1 store in CO and 2 stores in WY, well, then you are subject to the bag ban (maybe if your CO store is under a separate legal entity it isn't..).

I don't think the average customer shopping at Wegmans is going to blink at a 25 cent total fee for, say, 5 paper bags... it comes off as rather low class in my opinion to charge an arbitrary fee to the consumer that is not required, but the marketing can perhaps make people feel good about paying the fee since the fee is supposedly going to charity. Also even if the 5 cents was an actual fee, the cost of the paper bags is over double that amount at this point, so this is definitely not a profit making move for them (unlike for, say, Safeway, who is selling super thick plastic bags in San Francisco and San Mateo County for 25 cents per bag and getting to keep 100% of the fee).

Also would be curious the legality of forcing the consumer to make a charity donation in exchange for receiving bags. What if the consumer doesn't want to support whatever charity that is?

We will see how this plays out with other retailers. It would be interesting if this becomes like hotels and we see fees at upper end places and no fee at lower end places; like where the upper end hotels nickle and dime the average non-status level guest for basically everything, while the lower end motels provide an inferior experience but do not have a bunch of nickle and dime type of fees added on.

Sally Beauty implemented a nationwide paper bag fee in January 2020, I am not sure if it is still in effect or not but there were customers very irritated with it. Mostly small transactions there. Probably should have just stopped offering bags entirely vs. trying to charge a fee.

The bigger issue I see with this whole thing is how it impacts in-store pick up orders. But if the retailer is in control of it, they can do whatever they see fit, and make changes when something doesn't work. If there is regulation, it is much harder to make changes when something doesn't work (like the CA bag ban- it is NOT working with these super thick plastic bags being taken by the majority of the customers now).
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by HCal »

I don't think it comes across as "low class" at all. As you mention, in industries like hotels, high class places have more fees because the customers are less price-sensitive. From what I have seen, people bringing their own reusable bags is more common in posh neighborhoods than in working class neighborhoods.

As for the legality, I can't imagine any issues. If the customer doesn't want to support that charity, they have the option of bringing their own bags, carrying their items out without bags, or not shopping there. It's no different from "we will donate $X to ABC charity for each hamburger/widget sold this week" promotions that many retailers and restaurants do.
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

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HCal wrote: April 17th, 2022, 2:45 am I don't think it comes across as "low class" at all. As you mention, in industries like hotels, high class places have more fees because the customers are less price-sensitive. From what I have seen, people bringing their own reusable bags is more common in posh neighborhoods than in working class neighborhoods.

As for the legality, I can't imagine any issues. If the customer doesn't want to support that charity, they have the option of bringing their own bags, carrying their items out without bags, or not shopping there. It's no different from "we will donate $X to ABC charity for each hamburger/widget sold this week" promotions that many retailers and restaurants do.
I have made the same observation as you as to the reusable bag use in higher income neighborhoods vs. working class neighborhoods. Yet in the stores like Aldi almost nobody is buying bags (most people just use no bag at all).

It is different than what you describe for the donation. If the retailer says they will donate 15 cents for each box of $1 HCal Widgets sold this week to charity, the retailer lists on the receipt HCal Widget $1 this week like every other week, and the retailer is then making a charity donation from profits. If the retailer says we charge a bag fee of .05 and donate proceeds, it depends how they do it, but if it is listed on the receipt as a donation, then there are some legal issues involved with doing that. If they list it as a fee then elect to donate it (as they see fit, and they can change how much of it they donate at any time) then there wouldn't be any issues.
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: April 17th, 2022, 2:22 am I think they are trying to use this as a way to stem additional bag regulations from coming against their stores. They can take this and say- look- we already did this- so you don't need to regulate it. This way they do it on their terms and they are in control of it.

Also the Big Y Chain in MA/CT has had a 10 cent paper bag fee since 2019. Neither state has a statewide bag fee. CT previously had a statewide 10 cent fee on thin plastic bags but that fee ended in 2021 and the bags are banned now. However, there is no mandated paper bag fee in CT.

The reason I say this is some of these laws are getting messy for the retailer. The Colorado Bag Ban which goes into effect in 2023 requires a 10 cent fee (thin bags are okay in 2023 then banned starting in 2024). That law, requires the store to remit 6 cents to the locality the store is in quarterly, then the store gets to keep the other 4 cents. The law applies to ALL retailers and restaurants however if a retailer is a "small store" that has only 3 stores and all 3 stores are in CO the retailer is exempt. But if you have, 1 store in CO and 2 stores in WY, well, then you are subject to the bag ban (maybe if your CO store is under a separate legal entity it isn't..).
NY's rule is also similarly confusing - each county had to opt into it. Only a handful did (mostly the ones that make up NYC, part of Long Island, Albany and Tompkins which surrounds Ithaca, along with a couple cities in Westchester and Troy), so in the remainder of the state any fees charged are done by the stores themselves. Thus, that figure of only 45 not being subject to it may not be right (given that the counties in which Rochester/Syracuse/Buffalo are are not subject to a fee).

However, all the grocery chains here around Albany (where, of course, Wegmans is not) have chosen to charge a fee anyway, but many lower priced chains (Dollar General, Ocean State Job Lot, Dollar Tree), some drugstores (CVS at least) and even Target do NOT charge that fee unless you are in Albany County where they are required to do so.
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by storewanderer »

BillyGr wrote: April 17th, 2022, 11:04 am

NY's rule is also similarly confusing - each county had to opt into it. Only a handful did (mostly the ones that make up NYC, part of Long Island, Albany and Tompkins which surrounds Ithaca, along with a couple cities in Westchester and Troy), so in the remainder of the state any fees charged are done by the stores themselves. Thus, that figure of only 45 not being subject to it may not be right (given that the counties in which Rochester/Syracuse/Buffalo are are not subject to a fee).

However, all the grocery chains here around Albany (where, of course, Wegmans is not) have chosen to charge a fee anyway, but many lower priced chains (Dollar General, Ocean State Job Lot, Dollar Tree), some drugstores (CVS at least) and even Target do NOT charge that fee unless you are in Albany County where they are required to do so.
I think if the fee is mandated by the county to be charged in NY, it has to be tracked and remitted to the county. The store does not get any benefit out of it.

But in those places where the fee is NOT mandatory, the stores must get to keep the fee. Of course the grocery stores like the idea of a fee.

The less competition there is, the more likely the bag fee will be charged if it is up to the retailer to charge it or not. If you have 3 grocers in a market they will all fall into line and charge a fee. But if you have 5 grocers in a market and 2 decide not to charge the fee, that will put pressure on the others to not charge the fee. There are some cities in CA that do not have a bag fee; Safeways ALWAYS charges the fee even listing on the self checkout machine as "due to local mandate we must charge a fee for bags." Lie. Raleys is interesting in that they charge the fee in one of those cities where Safeway is the only competitor, but not another of those cities where Save Mart and an independent are present and neither charge the bag fee. Ralphs does not charge the bag fee in the one such city I went to a Ralphs. Rite Aid and CVS do not charge any bag fee in those cities. Kmart was charging the bag fee even listing on the receipt as "city bag fee" a flat out lie.
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by HCal »

storewanderer wrote: April 17th, 2022, 10:56 am I have made the same observation as you as to the reusable bag use in higher income neighborhoods vs. working class neighborhoods. Yet in the stores like Aldi almost nobody is buying bags (most people just use no bag at all).

It is different than what you describe for the donation. If the retailer says they will donate 15 cents for each box of $1 HCal Widgets sold this week to charity, the retailer lists on the receipt HCal Widget $1 this week like every other week, and the retailer is then making a charity donation from profits. If the retailer says we charge a bag fee of .05 and donate proceeds, it depends how they do it, but if it is listed on the receipt as a donation, then there are some legal issues involved with doing that. If they list it as a fee then elect to donate it (as they see fit, and they can change how much of it they donate at any time) then there wouldn't be any issues.
For Aldi, I think it's due to how they have it set up. If you want a bag, you have to take one and put it on the belt with your items. The cashiers don't ask if you want one, and by the time you think about it, they have already told you your total. I think that's the main factor. At other chains, many people wouldn't otherwise buy bags, but say yes if asked.

I've never heard of any legal issues with regard to donations. No matter how it's listed on the receipt, the store is charging you X cents for a bag. What they then do with that money is entirely up to them.
storewanderer wrote: April 17th, 2022, 11:22 am There are some cities in CA that do not have a bag fee; Safeways ALWAYS charges the fee even listing on the self checkout machine as "due to local mandate we must charge a fee for bags." Lie. Raleys is interesting in that they charge the fee in one of those cities where Safeway is the only competitor, but not another of those cities where Save Mart and an independent are present and neither charge the bag fee. Ralphs does not charge the bag fee in the one such city I went to a Ralphs. Rite Aid and CVS do not charge any bag fee in those cities. Kmart was charging the bag fee even listing on the receipt as "city bag fee" a flat out lie.
California's bag fee mandate is statewide. It was passed by the legislature, signed by the governor, and approved by voters in a referendum. Cities can't opt out of it.

The issue is the enforcement. There is really no dedicated enforcement mechanism, and local police/sheriffs probably have better things to do, so some cashiers may have been neglecting to charge it. But I haven't seen a major chain routinely fail to charge, it's only independents.

The only inaccuracy is that it should be labeled "state bag fee" rather than "city bag fee".
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by storewanderer »

HCal wrote: April 17th, 2022, 4:18 pm

California's bag fee mandate is statewide. It was passed by the legislature, signed by the governor, and approved by voters in a referendum. Cities can't opt out of it.

The issue is the enforcement. There is really no dedicated enforcement mechanism, and local police/sheriffs probably have better things to do, so some cashiers may have been neglecting to charge it. But I haven't seen a major chain routinely fail to charge, it's only independents.

The only inaccuracy is that it should be labeled "state bag fee" rather than "city bag fee".
Incorrect. Any bag regulations that actually banned plastic bags that were put into place before the statewide bag ban are grandfathered in. Cities including Grass Valley, Danville, Manhattan Beach, and South Lake Tahoe implemented plastic bag bans with optional paper bag fees (no set fee, up to the store if they want to charge or not) before the statewide law went into place. There are also a few cities in California with a 5 cent bag fee mandated instead of 10 cents (or some with a 25 cent bag fee mandated) and those cities charge those fee amounts instead.

There was one city, Lincoln, that tried to put some regulation in place saying that the participation in the bag plastic bag ban was "optional" in that city and entirely up to the retailer. So in Lincoln after the statewide ban was passed it was interesting; Safeway, CVS, and Wal Mart all charged a bag fee. Target kept using thin bags at no fee. Raleys was using the super thick plastic bags, but not charging any fee. At some point Safeway quit charging the bag fee there for a short period of time. Ultimately the California Department of Justice went after Raley's and Target and said they had to follow the statewide bag law. They did not consider the Lincoln "optional" language to meet the grandfathering in standard of the cities I mentioned in the above paragraph since Lincoln did not pass a bag ban of its own and was viewed as trying to get around the state law illegally.

I have not been charged for bags by every store chain at one point or another. In rural areas some stores in California including some chain stores that should not be, continue to use thin bags also. Saw the same thing down in SoCal going on. Watched no bag fee assessed at multiple large or natural chain grocers (customers were using cash or credit card to pay). Even Stater where the cashier has to press a prompt at payment (no bags, reusable bags, paper bags-quantity, plastic bags-quantity) the method is not fool proof if a cashier doesn't feel like charging they don't. The cashiers conveniently just keep talking to the customer and fail to look down to see how many bags the bagger used. I have seen that at every single chain. Another one is seeing the cashier charge for 1 bag and moving to payment (to keep the line going..), when the customer ends up receiving 2-3 bags.

The only way to ensure the bag fee is charged is to count it as a merchandise item and have it like Aldi has it set up. At this point most chains still consider the super thick plastic bag or paper bag a "supply" and there is not really much control over them. One large chain drugstore manager explained to me that there is zero accountability as to the bags ordered vs. bag fees collected and their oddly shaped/sized Made in Germany plastic bags are also given freely at the pharmacy for people buying prescriptions, also they have no procedure to track bags given to EBT customers. At the grocers specifically Safeway it is supposed to be tracked for EBT users they charge the bag fee then reverse it out with a second PLU code but I don't think it is consistently applied.
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Re: Wegmans chainwide paper bag fee

Post by HCal »

storewanderer wrote: April 17th, 2022, 8:07 pm
Incorrect. Any bag regulations that actually banned plastic bags that were put into place before the statewide bag ban are grandfathered in. Cities including Grass Valley, Danville, Manhattan Beach, and South Lake Tahoe implemented plastic bag bans with optional paper bag fees (no set fee, up to the store if they want to charge or not) before the statewide law went into place. There are also a few cities in California with a 5 cent bag fee mandated instead of 10 cents (or some with a 25 cent bag fee mandated) and those cities charge those fee amounts instead.
The bag regulations put into place before the statewide bag ban are grandfathered in, but that does not mean that those cities are exempt from the statewide law. Here is the preemption clause: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... &article=5.

Cities that are grandfathered "may continue to enforce and implement that ordinance, resolution, regulation, or rule" but there is no clause saying they don't have to follow state law as well. The grandfather clause protects cities that have stronger laws (like a 25 cent charge) from being forced to lower it.

I'm well aware that stores in certain cities are only charging 5 cents, but that doesn't mean it is legal. It simply means that they have calculated that they can get away with it due to the local political environment. This is no different from the cities that declared themselves exempt from lockdowns during COVID. It's not legal, but if the local police are on your side and the state is too busy to care, then nothing will happen.
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