Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by veteran+ »

Groceteria wrote: August 25th, 2022, 8:47 am
BatteryMill wrote: August 24th, 2022, 2:27 pmThis seems to be a rather confusing history of mergers and the like. First; how did Skaggs Albertsons become Skaggs Alpha Beta? Was there any transaction made, or was Alpha Beta another arm of Albertsons at the time? Then since the Jewel-Osco rebrand was completed before they were bought by Ralphs and intended to AB's eastern stores, I wonder if that would still count as Kroger lineage even though Jewel went a different route than the rest of Alpha Beta. They also seem to have left markets like Arkansas a little earlier than the rebranding to Jewel.
There are a few related threads on the Groceteria board. As I recall, the sequence was more or less:

1. Skaggs Albertsons partnership was established (two separate companies) to operate combination stores.
2. Partnership dissolved in the late 1970s. Albertsons retained some stores (these became just Albertsons) and ASC/Skaggs retained the bulk of them (these became Skaggs Alpha Beta).
3. The Skaggs Alpha Beta stores (briefly rebranded as Jewel Osco) were sold to Albertsons in the early 1990s.

So basically most of the Skaggs Albertsons stores that survived the whole period ended up as Albertsons, but through two different pathways. There may have been some stragglers, though.
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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by storewanderer »

Groceteria wrote: August 25th, 2022, 8:47 am
BatteryMill wrote: August 24th, 2022, 2:27 pmThis seems to be a rather confusing history of mergers and the like. First; how did Skaggs Albertsons become Skaggs Alpha Beta? Was there any transaction made, or was Alpha Beta another arm of Albertsons at the time? Then since the Jewel-Osco rebrand was completed before they were bought by Ralphs and intended to AB's eastern stores, I wonder if that would still count as Kroger lineage even though Jewel went a different route than the rest of Alpha Beta. They also seem to have left markets like Arkansas a little earlier than the rebranding to Jewel.
There are a few related threads on the Groceteria board. As I recall, the sequence was more or less:

1. Skaggs Albertsons partnership was established (two separate companies) to operate combination stores.
2. Partnership dissolved in the late 1970s. Albertsons retained some stores (these became just Albertsons) and ASC/Skaggs retained the bulk of them (these became Skaggs Alpha Beta).
3. The Skaggs Alpha Beta stores (briefly rebranded as Jewel Osco) were sold to Albertsons in the early 1990s.

So basically most of the Skaggs Albertsons stores that survived the whole period ended up as Albertsons, but through two different pathways. There may have been some stragglers, though.
Don't forget the odd Colorado arrangement where the stores were, literally, split in half in some cases divided only by shelving and not even a wall: grocery side to Albertsons, drug side to Skaggs (then Osco, then Payless, then Rite Aid). Those stores are all closed now.
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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by BatteryMill »

Groceteria wrote: August 25th, 2022, 8:47 am
BatteryMill wrote: August 24th, 2022, 2:27 pmThis seems to be a rather confusing history of mergers and the like. First; how did Skaggs Albertsons become Skaggs Alpha Beta? Was there any transaction made, or was Alpha Beta another arm of Albertsons at the time? Then since the Jewel-Osco rebrand was completed before they were bought by Ralphs and intended to AB's eastern stores, I wonder if that would still count as Kroger lineage even though Jewel went a different route than the rest of Alpha Beta. They also seem to have left markets like Arkansas a little earlier than the rebranding to Jewel.
There are a few related threads on the Groceteria board. As I recall, the sequence was more or less:

1. Skaggs Albertsons partnership was established (two separate companies) to operate combination stores.
2. Partnership dissolved in the late 1970s. Albertsons retained some stores (these became just Albertsons) and ASC/Skaggs retained the bulk of them (these became Skaggs Alpha Beta).
3. The Skaggs Alpha Beta stores (briefly rebranded as Jewel Osco) were sold to Albertsons in the early 1990s.

So basically most of the Skaggs Albertsons stores that survived the whole period ended up as Albertsons, but through two different pathways. There may have been some stragglers, though.
#2, does that imply that American Stores bought into Skaggs Albertsons when Albertsons pulled out, or were they partnered alongside Albertsons prior to its respective split from Skaggs?

Not too sure about #3 because there were "Skaggs Alpha Beta"-branded stores in California, where Jewel-Osco hasn't gone.
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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by norcalriteaidclerk »

BatteryMill wrote:
Groceteria wrote: August 25th, 2022, 8:47 am
BatteryMill wrote: August 24th, 2022, 2:27 pmThis seems to be a rather confusing history of mergers and the like. First; how did Skaggs Albertsons become Skaggs Alpha Beta? Was there any transaction made, or was Alpha Beta another arm of Albertsons at the time? Then since the Jewel-Osco rebrand was completed before they were bought by Ralphs and intended to AB's eastern stores, I wonder if that would still count as Kroger lineage even though Jewel went a different route than the rest of Alpha Beta. They also seem to have left markets like Arkansas a little earlier than the rebranding to Jewel.
There are a few related threads on the Groceteria board. As I recall, the sequence was more or less:

1. Skaggs Albertsons partnership was established (two separate companies) to operate combination stores.
2. Partnership dissolved in the late 1970s. Albertsons retained some stores (these became just Albertsons) and ASC/Skaggs retained the bulk of them (these became Skaggs Alpha Beta).
3. The Skaggs Alpha Beta stores (briefly rebranded as Jewel Osco) were sold to Albertsons in the early 1990s.

So basically most of the Skaggs Albertsons stores that survived the whole period ended up as Albertsons, but through two different pathways. There may have been some stragglers, though.
#2, does that imply that American Stores bought into Skaggs Albertsons when Albertsons pulled out, or were they partnered alongside Albertsons prior to its respective split from Skaggs?

Not too sure about #3 because there were "Skaggs Alpha Beta"-branded stores in California, where Jewel-Osco hasn't gone.
Jewel Osco was a sister chain to (skaggs) Alpha Beta as far back as at least the late 1970's.

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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by Groceteria »

BatteryMill wrote: August 25th, 2022, 3:49 pm#2, does that imply that American Stores bought into Skaggs Albertsons when Albertsons pulled out, or were they partnered alongside Albertsons prior to its respective split from Skaggs?

Not too sure about #3 because there were "Skaggs Alpha Beta"-branded stores in California, where Jewel-Osco hasn't gone.
Skaggs Drugs partnered with Albertsons initially. The partnership broke up in the late 1970s around the same time that Skaggs merged with American Stores, hence the fact that American's Alpha Beta banner replaced Albertsons in Skaggs/ASC-owned combo stores after the split. And as norcalriteaidclerk mentions, ASC also owned Jewel-Osco, which was the name they briefly gave to many (or all) of the Skaggs-Alpha Beta stores before selling most of these combo stores to Albertsons. I don't know if the SoCal Skaggs-Alpha Beta stores were part of this transaction, but for the record ASC also briefly rebranded the Sav-On drugstores in SoCal as Osco. That obviously did not end well.

So to take it back to the original topic, Alpha Beta (as the late-stage shadow chain owned by Ralphs) never really factored into this.
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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by rwsandiego »

norcalriteaidclerk wrote: August 25th, 2022, 5:23 pm...Jewel Osco was a sister chain to (skaggs) Alpha Beta as far back as at least the late 1970's.

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More like the mid-1980's. ASC bought The Jewel Companies in 1984.
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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by BatteryMill »

Groceteria wrote: August 25th, 2022, 6:21 pm
BatteryMill wrote: August 25th, 2022, 3:49 pm#2, does that imply that American Stores bought into Skaggs Albertsons when Albertsons pulled out, or were they partnered alongside Albertsons prior to its respective split from Skaggs?

Not too sure about #3 because there were "Skaggs Alpha Beta"-branded stores in California, where Jewel-Osco hasn't gone.
Skaggs Drugs partnered with Albertsons initially. The partnership broke up in the late 1970s around the same time that Skaggs merged with American Stores, hence the fact that American's Alpha Beta banner replaced Albertsons in Skaggs/ASC-owned combo stores after the split. And as norcalriteaidclerk mentions, ASC also owned Jewel-Osco, which was the name they briefly gave to many (or all) of the Skaggs-Alpha Beta stores before selling most of these combo stores to Albertsons. I don't know if the SoCal Skaggs-Alpha Beta stores were part of this transaction, but for the record ASC also briefly rebranded the Sav-On drugstores in SoCal as Osco. That obviously did not end well.

So to take it back to the original topic, Alpha Beta (as the late-stage shadow chain owned by Ralphs) never really factored into this.
Thank you, I noticed how the store numbering set was different at the Skaggs stores (4xxx like Albertsons/Jewel) than the very chronological order back west. When were the Arkansas stores spun off?
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Re: Kroger in Milwaukee: 3rd time a charm?

Post by storewanderer »

Groceteria wrote: August 25th, 2022, 6:21 pm

Skaggs Drugs partnered with Albertsons initially. The partnership broke up in the late 1970s around the same time that Skaggs merged with American Stores, hence the fact that American's Alpha Beta banner replaced Albertsons in Skaggs/ASC-owned combo stores after the split. And as norcalriteaidclerk mentions, ASC also owned Jewel-Osco, which was the name they briefly gave to many (or all) of the Skaggs-Alpha Beta stores before selling most of these combo stores to Albertsons. I don't know if the SoCal Skaggs-Alpha Beta stores were part of this transaction, but for the record ASC also briefly rebranded the Sav-On drugstores in SoCal as Osco. That obviously did not end well.

So to take it back to the original topic, Alpha Beta (as the late-stage shadow chain owned by Ralphs) never really factored into this.
In the period before Jewel became associated with Alpha Beta, in maybe the mid to late 80's, in central California, some "Sav-On Foods" stores were opened. Some of those ended up with Vons and some with Save Mart. I'm not sure which are still open; pretty sure none of the Vons ones are. I'm also not sure if the Sav-On Foods disappeared due to the Alpha Beta transaction or it just did not work out for them. Those would have been some of the first food/drug combo stores in the Central Valley.
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