McDonalds- no drink refills

storewanderer
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McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by storewanderer »

McDonalds is actively removing self serve drink equipment from its locations at least in the west. Very few locations even with self serve drinks have had the iced tea out self serve the past few years so I was receiving my drink from behind the counter most of the time anyway. Now I am noticing signs popping up at the locations that removed the self serve equipment that say "NO DRINK REFILLS."

I wonder what the official policy is. Franchisee claims the no refill thing is due to health regulations they cannot take a cup back behind the counter once handing it out. They've offered coffee refills for years that have to go back behind the counter and when I pointed that out I was told due to COVID "everything is a lot more careful now."

Some of these McDonalds have had pretty nasty signs on their drink machines over the years, with messages such as it is theft to put soda into water cups and we will call the police. Visit time limit 30 minutes, limit 1 refill per visit. I've seen some in CA that have a padlock on the iced tea urn's top opening so someone can't lift open the top of it and tamper with the contents. So I am thinking the group internally who did not like self serve drinks must have finally won out.

I also hope this removal of self serve drinks does not become a trend. I typically take a full cup of ice and refill multiple times. With this iced tea from McDonalds that comes from behind the counter it often has little or no ice since they don't fill the cup full of ice. This is probably fine if refills aren't allowed so I get enough liquid but I'd prefer to do a cup fill of ice then refill.
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by Bagels »

I haven’t been inside a McDonalds since pre-Covid - all of their dining rooms near me are either closed or open for weekday lunch hours only when I’m not in the area - but I know that numerous locations have long had a no refill policy, usually in touristy places (now demolished Sunset Blvd in WeHo, Waikiki Beach, Las Vegas Strip, Navy Pier come to mind).
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by Alpha8472 »

There is a large amount of theft at McDonald's in California. You see homeless people taking cups from the trash and filling up the cups with soda.

It is difficult to put the drinks behind the counter at Walmart McDonald's. Those restaurants have very little space.

The McDonald's with Coca Cola Freestyle machines are a big problem. Those already have a ton of waste. People fill up a cup and decide that they don't like the flavor, then they pour it out and choose another flavor. With so many flavors, you are going to have people constantly sampling many flavors and wasting most of it.
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by storewanderer »

Alpha8472 wrote: October 1st, 2022, 1:51 pm There is a large amount of theft at McDonald's in California. You see homeless people taking cups from the trash and filling up the cups with soda.

It is difficult to put the drinks behind the counter at Walmart McDonald's. Those restaurants have very little space.

The McDonald's with Coca Cola Freestyle machines are a big problem. Those already have a ton of waste. People fill up a cup and decide that they don't like the flavor, then they pour it out and choose another flavor. With so many flavors, you are going to have people constantly sampling many flavors and wasting most of it.
Only one McDonalds I know of has the freestyle, it is in Sparks on Prater. The one in South Lake Tahoe on Lake Tahoe Blvd. had those for a while then removed them and moved drinks behind the counter about 4 years ago. Then they removed drinks back out as self serve about 3 years ago. McDonalds has built two new units in my area and done multiple major remodels in the past year and there is no Freestyle machine in sight so I think they are done with those as far as new installs go.

I did come across a Freestyle somewhere recently that didn't have brewed iced tea and I was actually happy with it. It had 3 flavors of seltzer water and 4 flavors of zero calorie Stevia sweetened Vitamin Water. I forget where that was.
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: October 1st, 2022, 1:47 pm I haven’t been inside a McDonalds since pre-Covid - all of their dining rooms near me are either closed or open for weekday lunch hours only when I’m not in the area - but I know that numerous locations have long had a no refill policy, usually in touristy places (now demolished Sunset Blvd in WeHo, Waikiki Beach, Las Vegas Strip, Navy Pier come to mind).
This is interesting. When I was in SoCal earlier this year and multiple trips into NorCal the McDonalds I've come across are all fully open inside even in the evenings. I was in primarily Orange County/Redondo Beach area in SoCal. Back here in Reno on the other hand is a disaster with one specific franchisee who can't seem to make a reopening happen (the local Burger King and Wendys franchisees have a similar problem though as of late the Wendys one seems to be pushing to be open inside all the time). At one point this summer this Reno McDonalds group told the locations they needed to be open until 9 PM and that lasted a couple weeks before the unbelievable thing that went on for 2 years of closing down inside at 2 or 3 PM started again. At this point I think they've just given up trying. There are two other McDonalds franchisees over in Sparks and they have kept their locations open; one runs the location well, the group with the other locations in Sparks/Sun Valley is a very poor operator (Google/Yelp reviews validate this claim) with bloated pricing but they keep them open inside until at least 8 PM and I think the Sun Valley one is open 24 hours (the door lock has been broken for a while, guess that is one way to keep the location open).
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by mjhale »

The standalone McDonald's locations in Northern Virginia are mostly run by one operator. I haven't seen any no refills or self-serve fountains being removed. What is more troublesome is the cleanliness of the drink area is usually not good. Spilled drinks, ketchup dispenser a mess, cups and napkins all over. This isn't just a recent, not enough employees problem. It has been like this as long as I can remember. I'm usually stopping at McDonald's on the way home so it is drive thru for me. At least that way I'm getting my drink from a dispenser that only the employees have access too. One would expect (hope) they keep that area clean. I think the larger issue is probably the loitering, people staying for hours getting drink refills but no more food and people showing up with cups from who knows where and how long ago getting refills. All of this presents a cleanliness and loss of revenue issues for the store. Stating the change is due to health regulations is a way to shift the blame off the restaurant's own decisions - the government made us. There is a McDonald's near me that is within walking distance of the local high school. It has always been popular with the kids after school. What I've noticed the few times I've been in the store is that beyond the initial purchase of food anything else is drink refills while they hang out. No additional food purchases. Now with McDonald's pricing going through the roof - the two cheeseburger meal with large drink and fries is around $12 with tax - I'm not sure that it is even worth the price for very mediocre food.
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by Bagels »

storewanderer wrote: October 1st, 2022, 9:25 pm
Bagels wrote: October 1st, 2022, 1:47 pm I haven’t been inside a McDonalds since pre-Covid - all of their dining rooms near me are either closed or open for weekday lunch hours only when I’m not in the area - but I know that numerous locations have long had a no refill policy, usually in touristy places (now demolished Sunset Blvd in WeHo, Waikiki Beach, Las Vegas Strip, Navy Pier come to mind).
This is interesting. When I was in SoCal earlier this year and multiple trips into NorCal the McDonalds I've come across are all fully open inside even in the evenings. I was in primarily Orange County/Redondo Beach area in SoCal. Back here in Reno on the other hand is a disaster with one specific franchisee who can't seem to make a reopening happen (the local Burger King and Wendys franchisees have a similar problem though as of late the Wendys one seems to be pushing to be open inside all the time). At one point this summer this Reno McDonalds group told the locations they needed to be open until 9 PM and that lasted a couple weeks before the unbelievable thing that went on for 2 years of closing down inside at 2 or 3 PM started again. At this point I think they've just given up trying. There are two other McDonalds franchisees over in Sparks and they have kept their locations open; one runs the location well, the group with the other locations in Sparks/Sun Valley is a very poor operator (Google/Yelp reviews validate this claim) with bloated pricing but they keep them open inside until at least 8 PM and I think the Sun Valley one is open 24 hours (the door lock has been broken for a while, guess that is one way to keep the location open).
Many fast food restaurants by me haven’t opened their dining rooms, or if they have, maintain limited hours. Arby’s and Wendy’s both close by 5PM. McD’s by 8PM, although one location has its dining room closed. 8PM may be generous, but I’m rarely home by 8PM and that location use to be 24-hours inside. Carl’s Jr and JITB are split - some open on the inside, some aren’t.

It use to be blamed on Covid but now labor shortages. Reality is that closing dining rooms saves operators a ton of money.
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by storewanderer »

Bagels wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 9:54 am

Many fast food restaurants by me haven’t opened their dining rooms, or if they have, maintain limited hours. Arby’s and Wendy’s both close by 5PM. McD’s by 8PM, although one location has its dining room closed. 8PM may be generous, but I’m rarely home by 8PM and that location use to be 24-hours inside. Carl’s Jr and JITB are split - some open on the inside, some aren’t.

It use to be blamed on Covid but now labor shortages. Reality is that closing dining rooms saves operators a ton of money.
I've seen some of these closing at 5 PM, and I don't understand. They may as well close at 2 PM. Some Taco Bells run by San Francisco-based franchisee DRG around Reno had hours for a while that closed at 6 PM inside, which is odd, since that is, right when dinner starts? They've since tried to extend hours but the locations often close anyway.

I don't understand why the franchisors keep allowing this. This is hurting sales/royalties and the franchisors are paid royalties based on unit revenue, not unit profitability. I have to assume legally these franchisors cannot force these franchisees to open inside. If I were in any position of power at one of these franchisors I would sure exercise any means possible to either force these franchisees to open inside during reasonable operating hours (let's say 11 AM to 9 PM for a non-breakfast concept) and defranchise operators who refused. I was told by a KFC franchisee they have minimum hours they must adhere to and they are required by the KFC Corporation to be open until 10 PM with full menu available and that includes being open inside after the corporation lifted its COVID-related dine in rules (could only open dine-in if they had an "ambassador" on duty to do cleaning and enforce mask rules).
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by Bagels »

storewanderer wrote: October 2nd, 2022, 8:51 pm I've seen some of these closing at 5 PM, and I don't understand. They may as well close at 2 PM. Some Taco Bells run by San Francisco-based franchisee DRG around Reno had hours for a while that closed at 6 PM inside, which is odd, since that is, right when dinner starts? They've since tried to extend hours but the locations often close anyway.

I don't understand why the franchisors keep allowing this. This is hurting sales/royalties and the franchisors are paid royalties based on unit revenue, not unit profitability. I have to assume legally these franchisors cannot force these franchisees to open inside. If I were in any position of power at one of these franchisors I would sure exercise any means possible to either force these franchisees to open inside during reasonable operating hours (let's say 11 AM to 9 PM for a non-breakfast concept) and defranchise operators who refused. I was told by a KFC franchisee they have minimum hours they must adhere to and they are required by the KFC Corporation to be open until 10 PM with full menu available and that includes being open inside after the corporation lifted its COVID-related dine in rules (could only open dine-in if they had an "ambassador" on duty to do cleaning and enforce mask rules).
They do it because closing the dining room yields huge savings. Restaurants generally staff at least one person to service the dining room. In SoCal, fast food restaurants that shuttered dining rooms that use to be open 14-hours per day are saving up to $100K/year (and sometimes more) between labor, supplies (much more expensive to wash plastic trays than to use paper), cable tv, etc. The loss in revenue will vary - for some, it'll be minimal, for others it's significant enough to re-open their dining rooms. Closing the dining room, depending on your mix of consumers, can be quite lucrative.
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Re: McDonalds- no drink refills

Post by storewanderer »

Well, McDonalds just finished an interior remodel of its unit in Reno on Wedge Pkwy. (not sure what they were needing to remodel since this place was remodeled about 6 years ago and has been pretty much always closed inside for the past 2.5 years and even before that was usually closed by 6 or 7 PM inside). I hope the remodel doesn't screw up the ice cream machine which mysteriously has always worked at this location. To my surprise this location has kept its self serve drink equipment inside. This is quite interesting since the same franchisee recently remodeled their location not too far away on South Meadows and they took away the self serve drink equipment there.

I wonder if they are already going to retract whoever's stupid decision it was to start removing self serve drink equipment. I could see not having it in new build units if that is the direction someone wants to go, but to remove it from existing units (which required demolition, removal of pipes, etc.) was just a stupid decision.

However I am seeing major service issues in these units where they have removed self serve drinks. The employees seem to have enough trouble pulling orders of food together. Adding in the drinks as another task for the employees is causing more serious service problems. They need to go back in and put the self serve drink equipment on the new builds that opened in the past couple years that didn't get it, and return it to the locations where it was removed.
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