Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

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Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by ClownLoach »

A shoplifter early last Sunday morning set fire to the Menifee, CA Super Target by lighting fireworks in the apparel department to distract as he went to shoplift electronics. The store was extensively damaged by smoke, water and fire suppression systems and will remain closed until it can be rebuilt. This is a very nice shopping center in one of the ten fastest growing cities in America with a very low crime rate within the city... Unfortunately it is not a long drive from more troubled areas such as the cities of Hemet and Moreno Valley. There have to be more serious and drastic punishments for these new crimes where these idiots cause millions of dollars in damage to lift a few hundred dollars worth of product and put many people at risk of serious injury or death. There is no doubt that the store will reopen as it is a high volume location, probably one of the most successful Super Target locations to open. There is another Super Target 5 miles south on the same freeway in Murrieta across from a brand new Costco, that Target historically has been much less successful mainly because it is in a shopping center that never finished building out (although new leases were signed for Home Depot, Ross, PetSmart and others who should break ground any time now after a decade of dormant fenced off dirt lots).
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by Alpha8472 »

I saw police officers escorting a shoplifter in handcuffs out of a Target in Dublin, California a few days ago. Target actually is good at catching shoplifters.

The stores need to realize that any fire is most likely a distraction and the store needs to deploy loss prevention employees to the electronics department immediately. Have another team of employees worry about the fire.

Walmart stores have extra fire extinguishers on hand in preparation for shoplifter fires. Target needs to have an arson attack plan in place.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by storewanderer »

With as thinly staffed as a lot of these stores are, the reality is a lot of damage will occur before anyone even notices what is going on.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 12:14 am With as thinly staffed as a lot of these stores are, the reality is a lot of damage will occur before anyone even notices what is going on.
What makes this store interesting is that it opens at 7am. Every other Target I know of opens at 8am. There are a lot of employees on the floor at that time because they are still stocking truck until 10 or 11 at Target these days. The shoplifter apparently set the fire before 7:30am. I would argue that there are probably more employees at this time than any other. The fire itself isn't what causes the damage as it gets knocked down quickly in these newer construction buildings. The problem is that the fire suppression systems are much stronger in new construction. This store is maybe a little over ten years old; California changed building codes to increase the requirements around sprinklers and additional suppression in 2006. So even a small fire will make a massive mess, flood the building, and generally lead to a lot of water destruction. The entire building however probably won't burn down unlike older locations if a real serious fire started. But in theory everyone gets out alive.

What is most scary is that it forces a situation onto these retailers where they have to wonder if they need to operate in violation of fire code with sprinklers and suppression disabled and pay for a 24/7 fire watch. Then if one of these morons comes in and sets a small fire they can quickly douse it with extinguishers however they don't have millions of dollars in damage and lost sales from the sprinklers going off. If there was a real serious fire that couldn't be knocked out they could then throw the switch on the sprinklers.

In the past arson crimes were frequently coupled with very serious charges if the building was occupied. Prosecutors would tack on attempted murder charges for each individual in the building. If they were to do this again for these people who create ten plus million in damage to steal a PS5 from the stack behind the electronics desk of a crowded Walmart with hundreds of customers then it would result in a life sentence.

This isn't a new kind of crime; I remember long ago as a kid when someone set a distraction fire at the Thrifty near my house in Garden Grove (near Anaheim) and the store completely burned to the ground plus the Kmart next door was damaged. I don't think they ever caught the person because it was long before the days of cameras everywhere. I did hear they caught the guy who burned the Blossom Hill Home Depot to the ground and his defense attorney was making vomit worthy arguments that he should not be facing such serious charges which are going to put his sorry hide behind bars for decades; they were trying to argue that he was just trying to steal some tools as he does for a living and had no idea that setting a lumber area fire would burn the entire store would burn to the ground. I mean how would this guy know housing material burns? It isn't like you ever hear of a house fire.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by storewanderer »

I assume they are insured for losses from the fire. Lost sales gets a little bit murky though but if that is insured too then I guess that is how these things roll. If they did not run the fire suppressing systems ,that may cause problems with their insurance policy. Also in the off chance anyone is injured breathing in smoke who is inside during the fire, if the systems are not working, those people probably would try to file claims too.

Tough rules for arson helped this not turn into an everyday event. If they want to continue to discourage arsons, they need to go back to that interpretation that an arson is attempted murder against whoever is in the building. It will not be good if shoplifters decide this is a new tactic to get what they want. In practical terms, I think they may also find it does not actually yield them as much of a jackpot of stuff as they may hope.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: February 3rd, 2023, 1:25 am I assume they are insured for losses from the fire. Lost sales gets a little bit murky though but if that is insured too then I guess that is how these things roll. If they did not run the fire suppressing systems ,that may cause problems with their insurance policy. Also in the off chance anyone is injured breathing in smoke who is inside during the fire, if the systems are not working, those people probably would try to file claims too.

Tough rules for arson helped this not turn into an everyday event. If they want to continue to discourage arsons, they need to go back to that interpretation that an arson is attempted murder against whoever is in the building. It will not be good if shoplifters decide this is a new tactic to get what they want. In practical terms, I think they may also find it does not actually yield them as much of a jackpot of stuff as they may hope.
I think we are hearing more about these issues because again newer buildings are much more heavily damaged by these events. Unfortunately probably more idiots doing these too.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by arizonaguy »

There was an older, dumpy Fry's supermarket here in Phoenix that had something like this attempted a few weeks ago (I drove by right after the event). Someone set some charcoal on fire. Luckily, not much was damaged and the store reopened the next day.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by ClownLoach »

arizonaguy wrote: February 4th, 2023, 10:55 pm There was an older, dumpy Fry's supermarket here in Phoenix that had something like this attempted a few weeks ago (I drove by right after the event). Someone set some charcoal on fire. Luckily, not much was damaged and the store reopened the next day.
The "older, dumpy" aspect probably saved it. These new stores get completely destroyed by the suppression systems.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by Alpha8472 »

Water damage is worse than fire. A Walmart near me has had multiple shoplifter fires, but luckily the sprinklers did not go off most of the times. The shelves and merchandise were burned, but they were easily replaced. Flooding would damage everything.

One time the McDonald's caught on fire. The water damage was the worst. McDonald's was closed for almost a year. The water ruined the rest of Walmart which did not get burned. The water was apparently from the firefighters.

If only there were an alternative to sprinklers such as a gas that they could spray.
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Re: Super Target Menifee, CA Arson Shoplifting Fire

Post by ClownLoach »

Alpha8472 wrote: February 9th, 2023, 2:13 pm Water damage is worse than fire. A Walmart near me has had multiple shoplifter fires, but luckily the sprinklers did not go off most of the times. The shelves and merchandise were burned, but they were easily replaced. Flooding would damage everything.

One time the McDonald's caught on fire. The water damage was the worst. McDonald's was closed for almost a year. The water ruined the rest of Walmart which did not get burned. The water was apparently from the firefighters.

If only there were an alternative to sprinklers such as a gas that they could spray.
The gas kills people. Literally. At Los Angeles International Airport last year a fire suppression system was accidentally set off by some kind of construction workers in a equipment room. The airport had a Carbon Dioxide system in that equipment room to literally suck out the oxygen to stop a fire. And that's what it did to six people. One died and the others were critically injured from the oxygen being literally sucked out of their bodies. I'm not sure if the other workers ever recovered or are just permanently in supportive care.
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