Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: February 16th, 2023, 9:40 am I disagree.

There is way more critical analysis required to understand the root causes.

Cursory explanations do not cut it.
I think kiosk style self checkouts that basically have space for one bag and are limited to 10 items work. These "belted" self checkouts- I just don't like it. There are the Wal Mart belts that you unload onto and scan your items (I never see anyone unload onto those belts- and the remodels are removing those units) then there were the Fresh & Easy self check belts which were also quite common at Jewel Stores 10-15 years ago that carried items down to a bagger (Kroger is just now installing units that work this way too).

The one thing I can say for the belted model where the item is scanned then goes down a belt after being scanned (and customer is still stuck 5 feet away at the scanner far from the bagging area) is security can probably much better monitor if everything is really being scanned, as opposed to the units where scanning and bagging are next to each other and things can slip and once bagged the view of security will no longer be clear.

I find it painful to watch people do cart size self checkouts, especially at Wal Mart. Most painful experience is watching that.
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by BillyGr »

storewanderer wrote: February 18th, 2023, 12:29 am I think kiosk style self-checkouts that basically have space for one bag and are limited to 10 items work. These "belted" self-checkouts- I just don't like it. There are the Wal Mart belts that you unload onto and scan your items (I never see anyone unload onto those belts- and the remodels are removing those units) then there were the Fresh & Easy self-check belts which were also quite common at Jewel Stores 10-15 years ago that carried items down to a bagger (Kroger is just now installing units that work this way too).

The one thing I can say for the belted model where the item is scanned then goes down a belt after being scanned (and customer is still stuck 5 feet away at the scanner far from the bagging area) is security can probably much better monitor if everything is really being scanned, as opposed to the units where scanning and bagging are next to each other and things can slip and once bagged the view of security will no longer be clear.

I find it painful to watch people do cart size self-checkouts, especially at Wal Mart. Most painful experience is watching that.
We do have a couple stores that have the belt style ones as well - one ShopRite that I know of has the belt to unload on (not sure that I've seen anyone doing so either) for a couple units, plus a dozen more normal style ones, while the Stop & Shop chain has (or did have when last I was at one) the style you mention with Fresh & Easy.
Many times, the person overseeing self-check would bag items if they weren't busy (as their self-checks seemed to be pretty good at doing most everything, even things like coupons, yourself). They were also an early adopter of the program where you can scan and bag items as you go (with scanners they provide, even before most had phones that could be used for this purpose as some stores are now doing).

Another ShopRite here has ones that definitely work better for larger purchases, as the spot you put your bags on (which had bag holders before plastic bags went away) can easily hold 3 or more decent sized reusable bags, with space left over for a few large items (say a pack of paper towels or a couple cartons of soda). Thus, even a fairly large order can be done at those without running out of space (like $60-$80 orders, with 3-5 items like a bottle of laundry soap size or larger, after sales prices but before coupons, and this was 5 or so years ago so that was quite a bit of stuff in some cases).
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by veteran+ »

There is NOTHING more efficient and faster than well trained checkers and baggers.

When customers start doing these things themselves it cloggs up the whole system. Very few customers are any good with this stuff.

There have been older studies and brand new studies that support the above.
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: February 18th, 2023, 1:17 pm There is NOTHING more efficient and faster than well trained checkers and baggers.

When customers start doing these things themselves it cloggs up the whole system. Very few customers are any good with this stuff.

There have been older studies and brand new studies that support the above.
Personally, aside from Trader Joe's, I am happier just using self checkout when it is an option. The service is just that bad at a lot of places.

At a couple chain drugstores I went into this week with no self checkout, I went up to pay and nobody was there and I had to wait 2-3 minutes for someone to notice me. One of the employees was annoyed she had to walk halfway across the store to ring up my one item purchase as she was busy doing something with ad tags. At a third, a Walgreens, the employee was busy discussing with his coworker what they should order for dinner and he was on his phone placing the order so his coworker could go pick it up, and actually stood there a minute finishing the order before helping me. Then the Kohls interaction I had, I don't even know what was up with that.
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: February 18th, 2023, 11:00 pm
veteran+ wrote: February 18th, 2023, 1:17 pm There is NOTHING more efficient and faster than well trained checkers and baggers.

When customers start doing these things themselves it cloggs up the whole system. Very few customers are any good with this stuff.

There have been older studies and brand new studies that support the above.
Personally, aside from Trader Joe's, I am happier just using self checkout when it is an option. The service is just that bad at a lot of places.

At a couple chain drugstores I went into this week with no self checkout, I went up to pay and nobody was there and I had to wait 2-3 minutes for someone to notice me. One of the employees was annoyed she had to walk halfway across the store to ring up my one item purchase as she was busy doing something with ad tags. At a third, a Walgreens, the employee was busy discussing with his coworker what they should order for dinner and he was on his phone placing the order so his coworker could go pick it up, and actually stood there a minute finishing the order before helping me. Then the Kohls interaction I had, I don't even know what was up with that.
I get it ;)

But you are a professional and you are highly skilled to zip in and out regardless of the size of your purchase. I am sure you can do this as fast or faster than a checker. Many of us here probably can do the same.

That is not the case with the majority of shoppers. They will do what they do on their timeline and couldn't care less about the world around them. Plus many use the self check out to steal (this has been well reported).
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: February 19th, 2023, 8:10 am
storewanderer wrote: February 18th, 2023, 11:00 pm
veteran+ wrote: February 18th, 2023, 1:17 pm There is NOTHING more efficient and faster than well trained checkers and baggers.

When customers start doing these things themselves it cloggs up the whole system. Very few customers are any good with this stuff.

There have been older studies and brand new studies that support the above.
Personally, aside from Trader Joe's, I am happier just using self checkout when it is an option. The service is just that bad at a lot of places.

At a couple chain drugstores I went into this week with no self checkout, I went up to pay and nobody was there and I had to wait 2-3 minutes for someone to notice me. One of the employees was annoyed she had to walk halfway across the store to ring up my one item purchase as she was busy doing something with ad tags. At a third, a Walgreens, the employee was busy discussing with his coworker what they should order for dinner and he was on his phone placing the order so his coworker could go pick it up, and actually stood there a minute finishing the order before helping me. Then the Kohls interaction I had, I don't even know what was up with that.
I get it ;)

But you are a professional and you are highly skilled to zip in and out regardless of the size of your purchase. I am sure you can do this as fast or faster than a checker. Many of us here probably can do the same.

That is not the case with the majority of shoppers. They will do what they do on their timeline and couldn't care less about the world around them. Plus many use the self check out to steal (this has been well reported).
I have watched some shoppers steal from self checkout and I don't think they even know they are stealing. Forgetting to scan an item, not having produce all the way on the scale, putting an item past the scanner but the item not actually scanning and they think they hear a beep. I'm sure some customers overcharge themselves too- double scanning (at these stores like Safeway and Wal Mart with no weight sensor), wrong PLU code use, etc. The one that I still don't know how or why it can be so common is people who forget to pay. Half of them flat out forget to pay, others run their card then fail to press the "finish and pay" button, then- this is a Kroger issue (other stores somehow link the system so once you press finish and pay, if the pinpad has received a card, the self checkout automatically starts to process the card)- some who press "finish and pay" forget to press "card" so it doesn't process their card even though they do put their card into the pinpad.

The customers who willfully use self checkout to steal do not waste time. They conceal items, throw items over/around the scanner, scan other bar codes in place of the item (stick some random barcode on their cell phone or arm or some other trick) to make it look like they scanned the item... can easily engage in hundreds of dollars of theft in a single transaction at a Target or Wal Mart type of store. What is funny is they are so comfortable doing this they often pay with their own personal credit/debit card which they seem to be unaware gives the retailer their full name and also enables the retailer to pull transaction history from that card to observe other transactions they have done before. The worst part is when these stores actually recover the stolen goods by stopping the customer at the door, then they return the items to the shelf. It is not unusual for the items with the tags switched to go back on the shelf- with the tags still switched. Really sloppy.
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by BillyGr »

veteran+ wrote: February 18th, 2023, 1:17 pm There is NOTHING more efficient and faster than well trained checkers and baggers.

When customers start doing these things themselves it clogs up the whole system. Very few customers are any good with this stuff.

There have been older studies and brand-new studies that support the above.
OK, but the whole point is, in the end it does not matter! Simply because, that ONE clerk monitoring the self-checkouts, no matter how skilled they are, would not be able to ring up SIX customers faster than they can ring themselves up, because each customer is ringing AT THE SAME TIME.

If the clerk had to do it (even if someone else bagged), they can still only do one person at a time.

The stores simply would NOT have enough people to staff 6 registers instead of one set of self-checkouts (and some have even more than 6 overseen by one person, a few still have less than that).
veteran+ wrote: February 19th, 2023, 8:10 am That is not the case with the majority of shoppers. They will do what they do on their timeline and couldn't care less about the world around them. Plus many use the self check out to steal (this has been well reported).
That also should not figure into what is offered. The idea is that, if customers are stealing, it is up to THE STORE to go after THEM (and ONLY THEM), not to change what is offered and take something away from those who are NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG.
That's the old innocent until PROVEN guilty, not assumed guilty until proven innocent thing that so many seem to get backwards these days :)

As Storewander posted, some of the "theft" is totally unintentional - if the system does not work correctly (that is, you run the item past the scanner and it doesn't register) that is the store's fault for having badly designed systems (or possibly the item manufacturer for badly designed packages). When there are several machines, all beeping, it can be fairly easy for someone to miss that their item didn't register. Or the wrong codes - they could place them on the items or have things packed with something attached, then it isn't such an issue as trying to guess which one will match the item you have.
Not sure how that not paying thing happens - maybe that's just using real money and not plastic the majority of the time - but you would think people would wonder why no receipt was given?

The rest is the obvious problem, and some of that is easier to do with self-check, though putting different tags on items might slip by many cashiers as well (doubtful that most these days know the actual price of many items, so they wouldn't necessarily notice unless the differences were extreme and on a whole order of items, like everything rings up 10 cents each or something).
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by storewanderer »

To this point, I also think self checkouts should be "card only" and the "no liquor sales at self checkout" rule is helpful so the self checkout attendant is not tied up as often. I see a lot of thefts happen at self checkouts when the attendant is distracted doing a liquor sale.

Also having them as "card only" helps track the customer who is conducting the transaction.
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by veteran+ »

Studies have proven that the most efficient and fastest system is checker plus bagger, period (and of course enough of both). Training plays a huge part as well.

It saves shrink, waste, time and sustains more accurate replenishment and superior customer service.

Self check out saves labor dollars but does not make labor more efficient as measured with sales.
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Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: February 19th, 2023, 12:32 pm Studies have proven that the most efficient and fastest system is checker plus bagger, period (and of course enough of both). Training plays a huge part as well.

It saves shrink, waste, time and sustains more accurate replenishment and superior customer service.

Self check out saves labor dollars but does not make labor more efficient as measured with sales.
Retailers who can't seem to retain employees, specifically Wal Mart, CVS, and Target, seem to be going to what I call a 90% self checkout model. As in, there may be 1 regular register open, but its hours are rather limited. I do think this model may be somewhat logical for CVS, but not for Wal Mart and Target.

I am afraid as labor increases keep rising it is only going to fuel this self checkout push further and we will see more and more retailers do what we are seeing Wal Mart, CVS, and Target do.

Kroger is pushy on self checkout too but I do find they still tend to have quite a few regular registers open too during busy shopping periods.
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