Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

This is the place for general and miscellaneous posts on topics which might extend past the boundaries of any specific region. No non-grocery posts.
SamSpade
Store Manager
Store Manager
Posts: 1568
Joined: September 13th, 2015, 4:39 pm
Has thanked: 374 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Status: Offline

Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by SamSpade »

In visiting my hometown and parents, it always threw me when the local independent had baggers. However, the other day we were at Albertsons and yes, all their checkstands also had baggers. Makes you wonder about some of the divisions where they pulled out self check (yes, now largely returned due to customer feedback/preference) ... maybe the office suite thought they had this kind of labor in stores to speed register transactions.

Locally, the outlier store here is also Fred Meyer, a company that historically and where I've been did not have front end clerks at registers (yes, someone went out to pick up carts / look over vestibule garbage cans / tend to sidewalks, etc.) but in this market does.

Of course no Walmart stores have this position, and many have fewer staffed check stands than ever (though this market also has a surprisingly good number of them).
storewanderer
Posts: 14379
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 298 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by storewanderer »

If you want the line to move quickly, you have a courtesy clerk present at all times. Or in the case of Costco, a "helper" who basically performs the function of a courtesy clerk minus the bags. Another important function of the courtesy clerk is from a loss prevention perspective to ensure no items are left in the cart unscanned and that all items that were scanned end up leaving with the customer.

A lane with an efficient cashier and efficient courtesy clerk will move faster than any self checkout. I say this as someone who will use self checkout 100% of the time if it is an option.

And in the case of the union shops, the wage difference between a courtesy clerk and a cashier is significant. It is completely stupid to NOT have as courtesy clerks as possible on bagging to help get your front end wages down.

In places like Wal Mart or Target, where the cashier and the cart collecting employee make roughly the same wage, I can see why they don't really use a courtesy clerk, they can just have more cashiers instead (oh wait...).

Reno Target was 100% self checkout last week when I went in at 5:30 PM, and then when I went in Sunday right before Super Bowl they had 1 cashier (line snaking into clothing) and the self checkouts. Target seems more attached to self checkout than Wal Mart now.
veteran+
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2234
Joined: January 3rd, 2015, 7:53 am
Has thanked: 1204 times
Been thanked: 72 times
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by veteran+ »

GIGANTIC..........................................YES!

The Self Checkout was a self fullfilling lie and excuse to cut labor.................Full Stop! Convenience? Nonsense! Just like the conveniences that are promulgated by so many entities (and that we swallow and believe) that are nothing but cost cutters for the promulgator (often causing a larger carbon foot print for us and increased expenses for us).

Proper staffing up front and enough fast lanes always worked like a charm.

If they wanted to add self check outs (for "convenience") they should have been for fewer items than the express lanes and vigorously ENFORCED!

We believe so much nonsense and we are fed this from birth. :idea:
BillyGr
Store Manager
Store Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: October 5th, 2010, 7:33 pm
Been thanked: 58 times
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by BillyGr »

veteran+ wrote: February 16th, 2023, 5:58 am GIGANTIC..........................................YES!

The Self Checkout was a self fullfilling lie and excuse to cut labor.................Full Stop! Convenience? Nonsense! Just like the conveniences that are promulgated by so many entities (and that we swallow and believe) that are nothing but cost cutters for the promulgator (often causing a larger carbon foot print for us and increased expenses for us).

Proper staffing up front and enough fast lanes always worked like a charm.

If they wanted to add self check outs (for "convenience") they should have been for fewer items than the express lanes and vigorously ENFORCED!

We believe so much nonsense and we are fed this from birth. :idea:
Self-checkouts work perfectly fine for those who understand how to use them, no matter how many items they have, as long as the machine is configured with enough space to put the items (which many stores have different ones with smaller and larger bagging spots).

They are also convenient for customers who like to be sure they are being charged the correct prices, since you can more easily see what each item scans as you ring it up (unlike trying to see what shows up on the screen with a regular cashier, particularly when said screen is not facing the customer as often happens).

Going back to the original question, having someone to bag works better for some people, there are also people who can do just as well bagging their own items while the cashier rings them up. Just depends on the person in question :)

One thing that helped with that a number of years ago was the warehouse type stores - they knew that they wouldn't have people packing groceries, so they made the checkout with TWO counters past the cashier. That way, your order went onto one side, if you hadn't finished packing by the time payment was taken, you could continue packing on that side while the next customer was being rung up and their items went onto the other side (had a piece that flipped to block one belt/counter and send items to the other), so it didn't hold up the next person in line while you finished packing your purchases.
veteran+
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2234
Joined: January 3rd, 2015, 7:53 am
Has thanked: 1204 times
Been thanked: 72 times
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by veteran+ »

I disagree.

There is way more critical analysis required to understand the root causes.

Cursory explanations do not cut it.
wnetmacman
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 994
Joined: January 17th, 2010, 2:36 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 44 times
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by wnetmacman »

SamSpade wrote: February 15th, 2023, 5:46 pm In visiting my hometown and parents, it always threw me when the local independent had baggers. However, the other day we were at Albertsons and yes, all their checkstands also had baggers. Makes you wonder about some of the divisions where they pulled out self check (yes, now largely returned due to customer feedback/preference) ... maybe the office suite thought they had this kind of labor in stores to speed register transactions.
.
In the good old days, ALL supermarkets had courtesy clerks/baggers - Albertsons, Safeway, Kroger, A&P - it was essential to the operation to keep the customer happy. Someone handled your groceries from the farm to your car, essentially.

Then the 70's and 80's happened, and folks were looking to save money. Around this time, many operators experimented with a no-frills supermarket - Barney's (Kroger), Pak N Save (Safeway), WEO (A&P) and more. They did away with the position. They then moved this change to their mainline stores when folks didn't miss it. But the little old lady did. She still goes to the independent who couldn't afford to migrate the format. So they continue. I very well remember Kroger having baggers into the 80s.
Of course no Walmart stores have this position, and many have fewer staffed check stands than ever (though this market also has a surprisingly good number of them).
Walmart was not originally a supermarket, they were originally a discount store with variety store roots. Their ultimate goal was originally to lower prices. Since they have dominated most markets, they charge what they can get away with now.
BillyGr wrote: February 16th, 2023, 8:17 am One thing that helped with that a number of years ago was the warehouse type stores - they knew that they wouldn't have people packing groceries, so they made the checkout with TWO counters past the cashier. That way, your order went onto one side, if you hadn't finished packing by the time payment was taken, you could continue packing on that side while the next customer was being rung up and their items went onto the other side (had a piece that flipped to block one belt/counter and send items to the other), so it didn't hold up the next person in line while you finished packing your purchases.
I don't know about all Warehouse format stores, but Brookshire Grocery's Super 1 Foods division took all of these out in favor of a carousel checker bag situation. The customer still carries out to their car with no assistance. They were a pain for maintenance, with three belts to break instead of one.
Brian Lutz
Store Manager
Store Manager
Posts: 1425
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 5:51 pm
Location: Piedmont Triad, NC
Been thanked: 56 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by Brian Lutz »

I do most of my shopping at WinCo which has customers bag their own groceries, and where the front end is basically designed for self-bagging. If I'm shopping at other stores (mostly Smith's here, Fred Meyer when I lived in WA) it's mostly for small purchases that go through the self checkouts. Between those factors I can't recall the last time someone bagged my groceries for me, but even the regular lanes at Fred Meyer typically had the checker doing the bagging.
BillyGr
Store Manager
Store Manager
Posts: 1579
Joined: October 5th, 2010, 7:33 pm
Been thanked: 58 times
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by BillyGr »

wnetmacman wrote: February 16th, 2023, 11:58 am
BillyGr wrote: February 16th, 2023, 8:17 am One thing that helped with that a number of years ago was the warehouse type stores - they knew that they wouldn't have people packing groceries, so they made the checkout with TWO counters past the cashier. That way, your order went onto one side, if you hadn't finished packing by the time payment was taken, you could continue packing on that side while the next customer was being rung up and their items went onto the other side (had a piece that flipped to block one belt/counter and send items to the other), so it didn't hold up the next person in line while you finished packing your purchases.
I don't know about all Warehouse format stores, but Brookshire Grocery's Super 1 Foods division took all of these out in favor of a carousel checker bag situation. The customer still carries out to their car with no assistance. They were a pain for maintenance, with three belts to break instead of one.
The couple stores of that type we had here haven't been around for many years (probably 20+), and I don't know that they existed long enough to get to a point where that was an issue.
One was Edwards (all their stores that remained eventually became part of Stop & Shop, more into NJ - they were very scattered up this way). The other was called Scot's Lo-Cost, and was part of the local Albany Public chain (then owned by the more known Weis out of PA) - not sure if they ever used that format elsewhere or not, it was just the one store locally that was set up that way, and all their stores eventually were purchased by Grand Union, upon which that store reverted to a normal GU for a short time before closing up.
Brian Lutz
Store Manager
Store Manager
Posts: 1425
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 5:51 pm
Location: Piedmont Triad, NC
Been thanked: 56 times
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by Brian Lutz »

BillyGr wrote: February 16th, 2023, 8:17 am One thing that helped with that a number of years ago was the warehouse type stores - they knew that they wouldn't have people packing groceries, so they made the checkout with TWO counters past the cashier. That way, your order went onto one side, if you hadn't finished packing by the time payment was taken, you could continue packing on that side while the next customer was being rung up and their items went onto the other side (had a piece that flipped to block one belt/counter and send items to the other), so it didn't hold up the next person in line while you finished packing your purchases.
This is exactly the format that WinCo uses in their stores. Each of the belts has a button at the end that the customers can use to manually advance the belts as they bag items.
mjhale
Shift Manager
Shift Manager
Posts: 429
Joined: October 2nd, 2016, 4:02 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 47 times
Status: Offline

Re: Courtesy clerks (baggers) - Y or N?

Post by mjhale »

wnetmacman wrote: February 16th, 2023, 11:58 am I very well remember Kroger having baggers into the 80s.
Giant-MD had courtesy clerks both inside at registers and outside to load your car well into the early 1990s. The courtesy clerk positions were highly sought after among my them high school aged friends. Due to the union, the courtesy clerk positions paid a couple of dollars an hour over a cashier at a non-union retailer. Plus you had a bit more stability in your hours too. At the time Giant-MD would not hire anyone under 18 to be a cashier. It was very common for non-grocery retailers back then in my area to hire 15-17 year olds to be cashiers. In fact, I started as a cashier at Hechinger at 16 and worked my way up to Front End Supervisor before leaving for my career job in education. Giant-MD got rid of the outside courtesy clerks around the time they were transitioning to the Fresh Ideas, Great Values format. Now at the Giant-MD and Safeway stores near me if they need someone to bag up front they call for the cart puller to help out. That person usually backs up the express line. It seems that at Safeway the floor personnel have to be register trained too as they will come up to open extra lines if there is a rush or the store is busy in general - impending snow storm, day before Thanksgiving, Christmas, day of Super Bowl, etc.
Post Reply