Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by storewanderer »

HCal wrote: February 25th, 2023, 9:55 pm
ClownLoach wrote: February 25th, 2023, 8:21 pm And that's how Ralphs has diluted the Fresh Fare mark so it's meaningless. They are ruining it like Safeway did with Pavilions. There are too many that are also in name only.
How would that dilute anything? Most people don't shop for groceries outside their immediate area. A customer of one Fresh Fare is unlikely to ever visit another one.
Following that logic, why have Fresh Fare branding at all? I think 20 years ago it was pretty clearly defined within Ralphs the difference between a Ralphs and a Ralphs Fresh Fare. But even back then there were large sized Fresh Fare units and smaller ones so there was always that inconsistency.

If the customer only shops in their immediate area... not sure how much the brand matters. What matters more is getting the store right for the immediate area.

Fresh Fare used to have unique items in bakery/deli/meat/seafood and more specialty product slotted throughout the store. They were also allocated additional labor to execute some of that.
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by HCal »

storewanderer wrote: February 25th, 2023, 11:43 pm
HCal wrote: February 25th, 2023, 9:55 pm
ClownLoach wrote: February 25th, 2023, 8:21 pm And that's how Ralphs has diluted the Fresh Fare mark so it's meaningless. They are ruining it like Safeway did with Pavilions. There are too many that are also in name only.
How would that dilute anything? Most people don't shop for groceries outside their immediate area. A customer of one Fresh Fare is unlikely to ever visit another one.
Following that logic, why have Fresh Fare branding at all? I think 20 years ago it was pretty clearly defined within Ralphs the difference between a Ralphs and a Ralphs Fresh Fare. But even back then there were large sized Fresh Fare units and smaller ones so there was always that inconsistency.

If the customer only shops in their immediate area... not sure how much the brand matters. What matters more is getting the store right for the immediate area.

Fresh Fare used to have unique items in bakery/deli/meat/seafood and more specialty product slotted throughout the store. They were also allocated additional labor to execute some of that.
That's a good question, and honestly I'm not convinced the sub-brand matters very much. Perhaps people in nicer neighborhoods are more interested in the quality of produce, so the "fresh" branding helps boost sales a bit. But I bet a lot of customers just think "fresh fare" is a slogan rather than part of the name of the store.
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by storewanderer »

HCal wrote: February 26th, 2023, 12:52 am

That's a good question, and honestly I'm not convinced the sub-brand matters very much. Perhaps people in nicer neighborhoods are more interested in the quality of produce, so the "fresh" branding helps boost sales a bit. But I bet a lot of customers just think "fresh fare" is a slogan rather than part of the name of the store.
I think they could have built something special with Fresh Fare and maybe they were on their way to doing that 20 years ago, but clearly between then and now something has really gotten lost in translation with regards to what exactly is Fresh Fare even supposed to stand for.

In my view Fresh Fare should have upgraded bakery, deli, staffed liquor, upgraded meat/seafood with more prepared items and higher quality offerings, produce that is from smaller suppliers/more specialty produce, less private label in center store, higher staffing levels throughout the store, and less/more refined looking marketing. There should be NO clutter in the store AT ALL (especially no cardboard shipper displays ANYWHERE and NOTHING in the middle of any aisles). The current Fresh Fare just doesn't measure up. Objectively speaking the Albertsons version of Pavilions checks a lot more of those boxes than Ralphs "Fresh Fare" does.

As was pointed out also Albertsons has tried to do something special with Pavilions again, and they deserve credit for that, after Safeway largely standardized the banner.
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: February 26th, 2023, 1:00 am
HCal wrote: February 26th, 2023, 12:52 am

That's a good question, and honestly I'm not convinced the sub-brand matters very much. Perhaps people in nicer neighborhoods are more interested in the quality of produce, so the "fresh" branding helps boost sales a bit. But I bet a lot of customers just think "fresh fare" is a slogan rather than part of the name of the store.
I think they could have built something special with Fresh Fare and maybe they were on their way to doing that 20 years ago, but clearly between then and now something has really gotten lost in translation with regards to what exactly is Fresh Fare even supposed to stand for.

In my view Fresh Fare should have upgraded bakery, deli, staffed liquor, upgraded meat/seafood with more prepared items and higher quality offerings, produce that is from smaller suppliers/more specialty produce, less private label in center store, higher staffing levels throughout the store, and less/more refined looking marketing. There should be NO clutter in the store AT ALL (especially no cardboard shipper displays ANYWHERE and NOTHING in the middle of any aisles). The current Fresh Fare just doesn't measure up. Objectively speaking the Albertsons version of Pavilions checks a lot more of those boxes than Ralphs "Fresh Fare" does.

As was pointed out also Albertsons has tried to do something special with Pavilions again, and they deserve credit for that, after Safeway largely standardized the banner.
Totally agree. It looks like Kroger is making a weak attempt to relaunch the Fresh Fare sub banner in the few stores that were remodeled to what I'm calling barnwood decor. Those stores, several of whom don't even have a Fresh Fare sign outside, are only on a dramatically expanded naturals and organics program. It looks like they're attempting to take on Whole Foods or maybe Sprouts, but they don't even live up to the messaging on the wall graphics. They have installed permanent wall graphics promising only sustainable seafood, but the service case as well as packaged fish areas have plenty of questionably sourced and frequently mislabeled fishes. They seem to not be able to make up their minds on center store merchandising; one store breaks out all the natural/organics in each section and brings them into their own bay(s) while the other has them integrated within each planogram. But this new iteration of Fresh Fare does not come off as a "upscale" or "premium" experience at all. In fact one of the locations didn't have the premium "Murray's Cheese Shop" as many other Ralphs and Ralphs FF stores do, the other store felt very much downgraded with a cheap remodel to crummy concrete floors with weird spray painted Kroger marketing messages all over them and wall signage primarily made of three dimensional cardboard (!). These "Fresh Fare Relaunch" test stores are in Laguna Niguel and Lake Forest (Foothill Ranch area).

My opinion is that the Store should match the community as a whole and if that fails then they are simply doing it wrong. These specialized sub brands should represent something more, something that cannot be found in every store, where a specialized assortment or experience exists that can make that specific location more of a regional destination. The sub brand should be a promise of whatever specialty I can expect to find at that specific line of stores. Fresh Fare's negligent execution absolutely misses that mark in every way shape and form. Kroger would do well to rebrand many of these stores that truly should be something upscale/special with the Pavilions nameplate once they have their hands on it; maybe they can make it Ralphs Pavilions similar to how it launched as Vons Pavilions in the 80s to prevent customer confusion. If such a store is done right then it would both serve its local customers well but also be able to bring in customers from a larger area for whatever specialty they're focused on as a "special trip." Pavilions is doing that today in the remodeled stores where again the only real special thing is liquor but its a worthy destination I would drive out of my way to go to versus say making a trip to the ever disappointing BevMo. I can't think of anything that would get me to drive past my local Ralphs to the next 'Fresh Fare' Ralphs. That alone makes it nothing more than a meaningless slogan on a store painted a different color inside which does nothing to serve me better or differently from the regular banner.

So in summary: these sub brands should only exist on select stores that A) represent the best of the fleet or potentially an opposite direction like the one-time Vons Value Centers; B) that special offering and experience should be consistent across all units with the sub brand; C) the offering at that sub brand should be compelling enough to be a destination which will attract additional shops from a larger market to gain extra share with special trips; D) the usage of the sub brand must be limited enough to maintain a level of exclusivity to protect the mark as when "everything is special nothing is"; and E) if the mark and related offering becomes too exclusionary of the local customer then it should not be used in that location i.e. The store would gather more local business with the "regular" banner/assortment than with the specialized mark.

Based on that criteria I would rate the current iteration of Fresh Fare a D-, and the current iteration of Pavilions a B. Fresh Fare needs to be scrapped and relaunched entirely. Pavilions needs to continue to do the work of choosing if a store will be upgraded to meet the new criteria of that mark or not; if the store won't meet the criteria then it must be rebranded as they're doing with this Long Beach unit that just isn't the neighborhood to sell cart loads of Opus One.
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

ClownLoach wrote: February 26th, 2023, 7:03 pm Based on that criteria I would rate the current iteration of Fresh Fare a D-, and the current iteration of Pavilions a B. Fresh Fare needs to be scrapped and relaunched entirely. Pavilions needs to continue to do the work of choosing if a store will be upgraded to meet the new criteria of that mark or not; if the store won't meet the criteria then it must be rebranded as they're doing with this Long Beach unit that just isn't the neighborhood to sell cart loads of Opus One.
The problem with Pavilions is, why do they sell the Value Corner brand? QFC never sold any of the p$$t owl brand for the same reason Food 4 Less doesn't sell Private Selection. That brand does not belong in most Albertsons stores, except for working-class areas.
The Value Corner packaging looks like a copy of Loblaw No Name brand. That brand is better.
Still better quality than Great Value though.
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by ClownLoach »

retailfanmitchell019 wrote: February 26th, 2023, 10:42 pm
ClownLoach wrote: February 26th, 2023, 7:03 pm Based on that criteria I would rate the current iteration of Fresh Fare a D-, and the current iteration of Pavilions a B. Fresh Fare needs to be scrapped and relaunched entirely. Pavilions needs to continue to do the work of choosing if a store will be upgraded to meet the new criteria of that mark or not; if the store won't meet the criteria then it must be rebranded as they're doing with this Long Beach unit that just isn't the neighborhood to sell cart loads of Opus One.
The problem with Pavilions is, why do they sell the Value Corner brand? QFC never sold any of the p$$t owl brand for the same reason Food 4 Less doesn't sell Private Selection. That brand does not belong in most Albertsons stores, except for working-class areas.
The Value Corner packaging looks like a copy of Loblaw No Name brand. That brand is better.
Still better quality than Great Value though.
Because today Pavilions is a Safeway/Albertsons with an extreme liquor department. That's the whole new concept. Once they get the chain unified to that and World decor then they can sort out the rest. At least it is focused on something.
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by Romr123 »

Up in Detroit K is using Fresh Fare reasonably appropriately (likewise Marketplace)...Fresh Fare is in upscale neighborhoods (Grosse Pointe/Birmingham/Bloomfield Hills); is in a different configuration (i.e. not a 60k sqft box) and has some different merchandising (I don't shop there much so cannot be too specific). Likewise, their Marketplace stores are Meijer-competitive size and location (doubt that they're merchandised appropriately but at least a Fred Meyer Washington state planogram won't look ridiculous in Michigan)
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by jamcool »

What is the difference between “Fresh Fare” and Kroger Signature? We have a Fry’s Signature Marketplace in Paradise Valley.
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by Bagels »

ClownLoach wrote: February 23rd, 2023, 10:04 amThey have already publicly stated that they are working together on a divest strategy. Collusion is working together behind the scenes and isn't legal. By acknowledging that they are working together publicly the legalities are ironed out. I also was in a retail company that executed a merger acquiring a direct competitor about 5 years ago. I had no idea what was going on until it was announced and I was a corporate director. When it was made public they had already worked out everything from DCs to stores being kept or closed to buyers & DMs coming on board and market/district realignments. Both were public companies. Nobody from the FTC showed up and we learned that these details were being worked out for almost 6 months before it was announced. So there clearly is a difference today in how these retail mergers play out; there must be some sort of "playbook" of what can be done and what can't. The only public acknowledgements in advance were that our company was "seeking strategic alternatives to grow the business" so that may be all that is necessary to allow for behind the scenes discussions, opening the books, etc. if it is only to forward a "strategic alternative" transaction. Regulations aren't as strong as they used to be.

The airline comparison is a bit different as that is a industry that is intensely regulated and usually when mergers are "closed" it takes years before the two companies even begin integration. Retail is probably closer to banking and even less regulated. My bank is in a merger right now and they have a very drawn out specific calendar of integration which I know is filed with the SEC and FDIC yet they are already way ahead and have even replaced the ATMs months early at some of the branches and they're operating the acquiring banks name, software and the receipt doesn't even show the acquired banks name anymore.
No merger is a "done deal" until regulatories have signed off -- and that's especially true with Kroger-Albertsons, in which there's a reasonable chance the government will block it. This forum (not saying or addressing this to you) sometimes cherry picks narratives members most align with and run them as facts... the main merger thread is a great example, in which some members where adamant about early misinformation being definitive facts. Right now, this forum is accepting the narrative (from some pundits) that Kroger is confident it can pull the merger off with around 200 store divestures... while completing ignoring some of the industry's leading analysts, who believe 600+ stores will need to be divested for the Biden Administration to sign off on it.

Until the merger is approved, it'd be unlawful for Kroger & Albertsons to coordinate in any fashion. Yes, both companies have assigned staff to a merger / integration team -> this is normal, but these employees have signed NDAs and do not work with the day-to-day operations. (When mergers fail - for whatever reason - it's pretty common for lawsuits to be filed, with one party accusing the other of using the information--remember, NDA--it obtained during the merger/ integration process for competitive position).

Integration can happen slowly. After your bank agreed to a merger/ acquisition, it would've released information to its customers about the transaction. But integration wouldn't have happened until after the merger was approved. US Bank, for example, completed its acquisition of Union Bank on December 1st and began allowing the combined customer base to use eithers' ATM network that day... but it'll take 6 months to migrate accounts (Union -> US Bank) and up to a year to rebrand branches (some of which will presumably close). You can even open up a Union Bank account through April. That's pretty slow for a bank merger -- PNC Bank, for example, pulled off a larger merger with BBVA less than two years earlier, cut off openings of BBVA accounts the day the merger closed and had migrated BBVA to PNC (accounts, rebrands, etc.) in 90 days.

And it took Albertsons 2-3 years to synergize product line-ups and even sales circulars between it and Vons (as recently as 2018, Albertsons was still doing Fab 5 whereas Vons was doing something 4 ... most everything else was the same by that point).
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Re: Pavilions Long Beach converting to Vons

Post by veteran+ »

I wholeheartedly agree with you except:

I don't have the same level of trust with regulatory entities, the actual laws on the books, corporate ethics, judicial jurisprudence, attorneys and "people" doing the right thing as perhaps you do.

In our present world "saying" is often not connected to "doing".

I know, I know............so negative, LOL.

But that is the reality of our world today.

🤷‍♂️

P.S. That Safeway - Albertsons merger was very suspicious 🤔
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