Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Brian Lutz
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Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by Brian Lutz »

https://www.businessinsider.com/subway- ... reddit.com

Subway has announced plans to build a number of "oasis" locations along major freeways with EV charging stations, picnic tables, WiFi access and in some cases playgrounds. This seems to mirror plans announced previously by Starbucks to build freeway locations based around EV chargers.

It seems like Subway is already pretty well represented in truck stops and travel plazas, so I'm not sure why they feel the need to build standalone locations for EV customers. I could possibly see this working if they locate near busy gas stations to get both ICE and EV customers, but I don't think the number of customers making long distance EV trips is going to sustain these locations by itself, at least not currently.
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by storewanderer »

From the article:
"On average, the smaller-format, fast EV chargers will offer a 120-mile charge in 17 minutes for approximately $20," the company said."

That doesn't really pan out well economically for the consumer in terms of cost; even at $5 per gallon gas for folks getting 30 MPG on the highway...

Also 17 minutes for a 120 mile charge? If I am on the highway 120 miles is less than 2 hours of time. While I tend to stop a lot while driving and waste a lot of time, this is something that REALLY annoys other people. I can say this from experience with coworkers and family members. Other people when they are out on the highway on a long drive they do not want to stop every 2 hours for 20 minutes. They want to stop as little as possible and want the stops to be as quick as possible.

This also assumes there is even a charger available when you pull up to the place to do a charge. If not then your wait will be that much longer...

I've said it before- until the charging technology provides the same utility and ease as a fill up of gas (at a comparable cost) where you can stop for a 3 minute fill up and be good to go for 300-400 miles, people will not adopt these EVs.
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by babs »

storewanderer wrote: February 21st, 2023, 10:41 pm From the article:
"On average, the smaller-format, fast EV chargers will offer a 120-mile charge in 17 minutes for approximately $20," the company said."

That doesn't really pan out well economically for the consumer in terms of cost; even at $5 per gallon gas for folks getting 30 MPG on the highway...

Also 17 minutes for a 120 mile charge? If I am on the highway 120 miles is less than 2 hours of time. While I tend to stop a lot while driving and waste a lot of time, this is something that REALLY annoys other people. I can say this from experience with coworkers and family members. Other people when they are out on the highway on a long drive they do not want to stop every 2 hours for 20 minutes. They want to stop as little as possible and want the stops to be as quick as possible.

This also assumes there is even a charger available when you pull up to the place to do a charge. If not then your wait will be that much longer...

I've said it before- until the charging technology provides the same utility and ease as a fill up of gas (at a comparable cost) where you can stop for a 3 minute fill up and be good to go for 300-400 miles, people will not adopt these EVs.
This is why Tesla leads the market. You can get about 200 miles in about 15 minutes at a Tesla supercharger. They would have been better off partnering with Tesla and their proprietary charging system. And you can expect Tesla to improve their charging system over time.
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by BillyGr »

Brian Lutz wrote: February 21st, 2023, 10:07 pm https://www.businessinsider.com/subway- ... reddit.com

Subway has announced plans to build a number of "oasis" locations along major freeways with EV charging stations, picnic tables, WiFi access and in some cases playgrounds. This seems to mirror plans announced previously by Starbucks to build freeway locations based around EV chargers.

It seems like Subway is already pretty well represented in truck stops and travel plazas, so I'm not sure why they feel the need to build standalone locations for EV customers. I could possibly see this working if they locate near busy gas stations to get both ICE and EV customers, but I don't think the number of customers making long distance EV trips is going to sustain these locations by itself, at least not currently.
The question being, is there any reason others can't eat at that Subway, even if they are not in need of the charging facilities?

As long as that is allowed, it's not really anything different than any other Subway for most, just the added benefit for those who are using the electric vehicles. Additionally, it depends where these are put up - if it is an area without too many other things, they might get local customers along with those off the highways.
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by buckguy »

They probably recognize that people stopping at Sheetz or Wawa, among others, buy food rather than gasoline and these chains are adding charging. They probably also realize that Tesla is not necessarily the future of EVs. The problem is that Subway’s best days are behind it and unless the food and its reputation don’t improve, this won’t be successful.
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by retailfanmitchell019 »

buckguy wrote: February 22nd, 2023, 6:10 pm They probably also realize that Tesla is not necessarily the future of EVs.
Exactly- traditional car companies such as Ford, GM, Hyundai, etc. are getting heavy into EVs. If my mother ends up getting a new car, it will be an EV (probably a Hyundai Ioniq 5 or Chevy Bolt).
Personally, I don't have the cash for a new EV (I'm fine with my old Volvo).
storewanderer wrote: February 21st, 2023, 10:41 pm From the article:
Also 17 minutes for a 120 mile charge? If I am on the highway 120 miles is less than 2 hours of time. While I tend to stop a lot while driving and waste a lot of time, this is something that REALLY annoys other people. I can say this from experience with coworkers and family members. Other people when they are out on the highway on a long drive they do not want to stop every 2 hours for 20 minutes. They want to stop as little as possible and want the stops to be as quick as possible.

I've said it before- until the charging technology provides the same utility and ease as a fill up of gas (at a comparable cost) where you can stop for a 3 minute fill up and be good to go for 300-400 miles, people will not adopt these EVs.
My grandfather is not the type of guy for an EV. He is the opposite of you in terms of stopping at places on road trips, the type of guy that would drive from Tucson (where he lives retired) to Minneapolis in 2 days. He has an old Lexus that is meant for the type of driving he does.
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by storewanderer »

The problem is many people cannot "have two cars" - one EV and then a separate "car" for longer road trips. This is not practical or affordable for many people. New apartments are being built in California with zero parking requirement. Where are people going to park their EV to charge (not to mention where will they park their other vehicle)? New apartments where I am in Reno are built with 1.5 parking spaces per unit per code (this doesn't work well for a 2-3 bedroom apartment where 3 people live who all have cars- just one car each even- let alone if there are multiple cars for multiple purposes) which is also inadequate but better than zero.

There is a large segment of population living in the middle of the US or in rural areas that regularly drives a lot of miles to get from one place to another. I am concerned those pushing these EV policies only understand big city life and do not really understand how far apart things are elsewhere in the US.
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by veteran+ »

storewanderer wrote: February 22nd, 2023, 11:42 pm The problem is many people cannot "have two cars" - one EV and then a separate "car" for longer road trips. This is not practical or affordable for many people. New apartments are being built in California with zero parking requirement. Where are people going to park their EV to charge (not to mention where will they park their other vehicle)? New apartments where I am in Reno are built with 1.5 parking spaces per unit per code (this doesn't work well for a 2-3 bedroom apartment where 3 people live who all have cars- just one car each even- let alone if there are multiple cars for multiple purposes) which is also inadequate but better than zero.

There is a large segment of population living in the middle of the US or in rural areas that regularly drives a lot of miles to get from one place to another. I am concerned those pushing these EV policies only understand big city life and do not really understand how far apart things are elsewhere in the US.


https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ate-change
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by buckguy »

veteran+ wrote: February 23rd, 2023, 9:32 am
storewanderer wrote: February 22nd, 2023, 11:42 pm The problem is many people cannot "have two cars" - one EV and then a separate "car" for longer road trips. This is not practical or affordable for many people. New apartments are being built in California with zero parking requirement. Where are people going to park their EV to charge (not to mention where will they park their other vehicle)? New apartments where I am in Reno are built with 1.5 parking spaces per unit per code (this doesn't work well for a 2-3 bedroom apartment where 3 people live who all have cars- just one car each even- let alone if there are multiple cars for multiple purposes) which is also inadequate but better than zero.

There is a large segment of population living in the middle of the US or in rural areas that regularly drives a lot of miles to get from one place to another. I am concerned those pushing these EV policies only understand big city life and do not really understand how far apart things are elsewhere in the US.


https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ate-change
I've mentioned before, there's been an increasing proliferaation of charging stations in all kinds of places--grocery store parking lots, hotels, parking garages and many of them are retrofits rather than new construction.

Subway is working with a charging company which I assume has access to data on traffic counts, vehicle ownership types, etc. They probably also have a good idea how far people travel without stops---my own observations are that most vehicles lack the lumbar support for comfort for more than a couple hours (if that) and if you've traveled with children you know that small humans have small bladders (ditto a lot of adults, esp. as they age) which probably make 100-120 miles a resonable interval and they probably know the average time people spend on a comfort stop, which always seems longer than people expect and probably long enough for a 15 minute charge. The same company is working with a large Taco Bell franchise and probably others. Only about 15% of the population lives in rural areas and there are popular corridors here people routinely take a stop even though the distances are not vast (e.g., DC to Rehoboth or Ocean City; 120 miles, 2 1/2 hours if the traffic moves which it often doe not). Not every place that adopts the charging tech will make money on it, but the infrastructure already allows people to charge in places that aren't exactly hotbeds of Tesla owners or densely populated: https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html
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Re: Subway to build EV charging "oasis" locations

Post by pseudo3d »

Brian Lutz wrote: February 21st, 2023, 10:07 pm https://www.businessinsider.com/subway- ... reddit.com

Subway has announced plans to build a number of "oasis" locations along major freeways with EV charging stations, picnic tables, WiFi access and in some cases playgrounds. This seems to mirror plans announced previously by Starbucks to build freeway locations based around EV chargers.

It seems like Subway is already pretty well represented in truck stops and travel plazas, so I'm not sure why they feel the need to build standalone locations for EV customers. I could possibly see this working if they locate near busy gas stations to get both ICE and EV customers, but I don't think the number of customers making long distance EV trips is going to sustain these locations by itself, at least not currently.
Plus, Subway is such a lousy place to stop. Hours aren't consistent. The stores have a characteristic distinct smell to them that sticks to your clothes and no one's sure of the cause, the restrooms don't have a good reputation, and stopping at a Subway on a road trip is going to be a complete gamble or not since quality control is so iffy due to the patchwork of franchises.

Starbucks makes more sense because they've cultivated a "hang out and drink coffee" culture, and their stand-alone shops are all corporate-owned.
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