Safeway Oakland Rockridge- Security Measures

[veteran+]

"The next stupid thing California has done since Veteran wants us to focus on California specific rules"

Huh?

In fact quite the opposite.

There are a myriad of issues in other States regarding just about anything that can been fanatically followed and more interesting for discussion.

The bashing of California is getting so passe and boring.

Well, let's find the stores in other states that are doing these things. I am sure they exist but I cannot find any press coverage. Is there another store in some other state with the same exact combination of severe security measures being described at this Oakland Rockridge Safeway? I pointed out some things I've seen elsewhere outside CA, but nothing is as strict as how this store is described.

Is there another Whole Foods that has been closed due to the types of incidents reported in the NY Times article in that thread elsewhere? They had closure in Chicago something in the past few years in what was known to be a rough neighborhood but I do not recall seeing that closure was for safety reasons, it was simply for volume reasons (and it is being replaced by a Save a Lot subsidized by the city).

The reality is the situation is worse in northern California than other states/regions when it comes to "incidents" at retailer locations, specifically grocery/drug/mass merchandise stores. This is not to say it will not get worse in other states/regions as time goes on but the current problems appear to be very northern California-specific. Quick changes need to be made to stop this from spreading. I already think it is too late. If Target with its loss prevention program/technology can't solve these issues, no retailer can. But Target is still open there near Union Square... and has expanded its closing time up to 8 PM... so maybe they are making progress?

Opinions and perceptions are driven by what is reported. Severe under reporting of serious problems in other cities and states is noticeable when you step back and look (the patterns are clear). These other areas do not have the same "click bait" Power that California has (not even close).

Even the style of video and photographs portrays distorted views. Media does that writ large about everything but California and other certain types of States get special treatment.

It would be beneficial and interesting if we were more exposed to the ongoings in other areas. California is not the exclusive bubble for all the ills of America.

It has become the apocalyptic State in all matters even though it is the 4th Largest economy in the world.

[veteran+]

They don't NEED dozens of security - just like the police do not stop EVERY car that goes over the speed limit, they don't have to stop EVERY person who is putting items into a bag.

The idea is that people will be less likely to do things that are wrong IF they know there is a chance of being checked out, not that every single theft can be stopped, but to limit it as much as it can be.

If someone actually pulls a knife or gun, then the employee has every right to do whatever is needed, since they are then acting in SELF DEFENSE (they have been threatened) - if that means kicking them, punching them or whatever to subdue said threat to them. If they actually run, not so much, but if it was other employees telling them that, all they need is a radio and have the loss person already by the door - much like the police car radioing to another to stop xyz that just passed them.

Your rule is completely stupid - a bag folded in the bottom of a handheld basket has 0% chance of theft, as it is FOLDED FLAT AND NOTHING WILL GO INTO IT! Then it is opened ONLY when reaching checkout. Same for ones in the bottom of a cart (or one shelf of the smaller ones with two shelves) - it is very easy to see that it is folded, and will be opened at checkout and not before.

Also note that I am not pushing ANYTHING, simply that there is no reason that a customer should have to pay for bags they don't need or want when they already have ones that work fine. Also, not sure how they are worse for the environment, unless people fail to use them correctly (which is likely the bigger issue). They last quite long if people care for them right (remember, NY has been doing this since late 2020), so one of those may have replaced 200+ plastic bags over a couple years (as they hold a couple plastic bags worth each x 1 or 2 uses per week x 52 weeks/year) - and (at least in my case), NONE of them have been purchased since this ban began - they were things gotten over the years for free, either at stores or other offers - maybe one or two bought at a minimal cost (under 50 cents) as part of a promotion, thus they already existed and just sat unused until they were made a requirement.

The problem is the employee acting in self defense beyond being put into a situation they should not be put into (unless they are loss prevention/management) puts the store at risk for a lawsuit, the employee will almost certainly be fired, and also risks an incident occurring/escalating that may cause other innocent bystanders to get hurt. It is fine to approach the random customer who is walking around at a leisurely pace and has put a potato, a pack of sausages, a bottle of water, a carton of milk, and a frozen dinner into their reusable bag and tell them to stop, frankly this is little risk and you shouldn't even have to tell them to stop, the problem is when you show up over at the drug aisle and you approach the customer who you didn't even see walk in, but is quickly emptying the deodorant racks of every piece of whatever SKU they can get their hands on and you tell them to stop and they become violent...

The store cannot prove theft or have grounds to even make a stop unless they see the item concealed and have their eye on whatever or wherever the customer concealed the item from the time the item is concealed until the time they stop the customer at the curb outside. One blind camera or cluttered corner where the view is lost and the store cannot detain the customer because there is the possibility the customer ditched the concealed item during the few seconds they were out of camera view.

Folding the bag at the bottom of the hand basket should be fine. The problem with folding the reusable bag in the hand basket at the bottom is a customer trying to conceal items can easily go in a corner and stand in a way that blocks all camera view of the hand basket/inside of the basket/the bag. By requiring the reusable bags (or backpack, duffel bag, whatever) to be in the shopping cart bottom rack, those bags will be visible or at least partially visible at all times. There will be no way to hide those easily from view short of wrapping a sheet or towel or something around the entire shopping cart.

I would also say at this point the customer who hides a bottle of some spice in a reusable bag and doesn't pay for it isn't really that big of a problem compared to the high volume thieves, but when theft is out of control, you have to do whatever you can to discourage thefts big and small, and that is the situation at some of these big city stores now.

I still have a scar on my left ear for simply politely asking a vagrant to leave the store. He had a knife!

Employees are sometimes fired for breaking company policy. Thieves can also file frivilous lawsuits even if they are guilty. Cops often do not show up for various and surprising reasons. Prosecutors and judges do not takes cases because they have too many other ones to address AND Judge's dockets are spilling over past the days of the year.

[storewanderer]

I still have a scar on my left ear for simply politely asking a vagrant to leave the store. He had a knife!

Employees are sometimes fired for breaking company policy. Thieves can also file frivilous lawsuits even if they are guilty. Cops often do not show up for various and surprising reasons. Prosecutors and judges do not takes cases because they have too many other ones to address AND Judge's dockets are spilling over past the days of the year.

Witnessing things like your experience is why I have the attitude of "whatever" when it comes to directly dealing with those loitering or shoplifters. Call me a wimp, but it isn't worth injury. You can try and get someone to leave by standing 10 feet away but if they have a gun it is still very risky; if they want to throw something at you it is again very risky. Human nature is to fight back but I don't really subscribe to a knock down fight because someone is upset I chased them out over their theft of a bottle of Tide. That is just my opinion and if someone else wants to fight back that is on them (company policy seems to say not to fight back though...).

I once had a loss prevention (ex-cop) who chased a (repeat) shoplifter 1/2 mile from the store property and eventually detained them and had the police meet the two of them 1/2 mile away. He was on the phone with the police as he was chasing and since the police knew him they responded immediately. I couldn't believe it.

I rather push policies that make things more difficult for shoplifters in the first place but do not actually harm other customers experience (this is why I am so down on reusable bags, backpacks, duffel bags, etc. on the sales floor). Also things like separate entry/exit, forced traffic pathways, etc. And if you have a high theft store I don't see how self checkout makes any sense.

I am assuming you are aware what was announced this week with regards to the Walgreens armed security shooting a shoplifter in San Francisco and killing them, and the DA's office announcement this week. The reporting of the story is iffy to me and from the start when it was reported the media had a clear agenda to blame the security guard for murder and push to get the security guard charged with murder, hate crime, whatever, but even after reading many stories, I still do not understand the exact details/reasons why the security guard shot the shoplifter beyond saying it was in "self defense." What if that armed security had missed the shot at the shoplifter and killed someone else? Whatever the case may be the DA obviously had some details that the media did not have based on the decision they made involving the case to not charge the security guard and release the security guard from jail after 4 days. But I still expect the family of the shoplifter can sue over the shooting even if the security guard is no longer being charged with a crime.

[Alpha8472]

These security measures are bizarre. What other measures do you think could be implemented?

How should other chains respond?

Do other chains handle it better?

[storewanderer]

These security measures are bizarre. What other measures do you think could be implemented?

How should other chains respond?

Do other chains handle it better?

I don't think there are other stores in the US experiencing the magnitude of issues these NorCal Stores are.

As I point out there are stores in Las Vegas with all of drug/HBA in locked cases, or stores in Las Vegas with walled off departments for certain high theft items (mostly drug and liquor) with a separate checkstand.

At this point I see a lot of ideas being tried and it is unclear what ideas will actually work and what ideas will not work. I do not think these separate departments with a separate checkstand in the middle of the store for certain items will work. This screws up the shopping flow of the customer, screws up the ability of the customer to find items, makes restocking inefficient, and a host of other problems that I expect will hurt sales.

SKU cuts (formats like Trader Joe's) are another solution.

[Alpha8472]

I saw a Safeway in San Leandro, California with a liquor section in the middle of the store with tall walls and a separate register. It seems really inconvenient to have to checkout some items there.

[storewanderer]

I saw a Safeway in San Leandro, California with a liquor section in the middle of the store with tall walls and a separate register. It seems really inconvenient to have to checkout some items there.

Yes, in Portland, Las Vegas, and various other places there are some stores like this (multiple chains not just Safeway) who build these little areas and put an odd random assortment of liquor, drug/beauty, and even some grocery items into this space.

It breaks the product sets within the store. For instance you may have a store where the bandages are out on regular aisles, but the neosporin is in one of these special sections with its own register in the middle of the store. I find this to be very poor. The customer cannot possibly learn or remember what random drug item (these items are already a little difficult to find) is in the center area vs. in the regular drug section. I expect the sales losses, stocking inefficiency, and general customer dissatisfaction will completely doom these set ups. I also do not think these set ups will actually reduce theft as much as they hope.