Major Hardee's franchisee declares bankruptcy, closes 39 restaurants

[mburb1981]

https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.co ... estaurants

The franchisee, Summit Restaurant Holdings, once owned 145 Hardee's and Carl's Jr. locations in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kansas, Missouri and Wyoming. The franchisee filed for bankruptcy Thursday after closing 39 locations, and according to court filings, the company currently has 108 restaurants, though it is unknown if this counted the 39 newly-closed locations.

2023 is already shaping up to be a long year for restaurant franchisees...

[rwsandiego]

It seems like every time I turn around there is a new fast food or quick-service restaurant opening. I've often wondered whether there is room for all of them. I think we are seeing the answer.

Burger King and Hardee's are simply not very good. There are other choices and diners are taking advantage of them.

[jamcool]

Maybe because fast food keeps going up in price…. It’s cheaper to eat at home or make a sandwich. And most fast food is not worth the higher prices.

[storewanderer]

Fast food sector is in trouble. It has priced itself out. The price to quality ratio no longer adds up for most of these chains. The burger chains in particular have major price issues due to wide price differences between franchisee in the same market and if they don't get control over this pricing situation we are going to see some systems shrink significantly and eventually crash.

Once a fast food chain starts failing it is tough to get it to grow again. These franchisees mostly borrow money and when a franchise fails it becomes difficult for the next franchisee to borrow money to open that franchise as the lender looks at past failures for that concept and makes a decision (don't loan, loan at a higher rate, etc.) which is not going to make it any easier for success.

There is a reason why In N Out is so busy. The price to quality ratio works.

Another fast food chain who seems to be doing very well is Panda Express. I don't exactly think it is a bargain, but the "plate" (9.40 here) with 2 entrees/rice or chow mein usually weighs about 1.5 pounds and if you do their receipt survey you can get about 5oz of entree free with that purchase.

Raising Cane's is also on fire it is so popular, unbelievable. I have no clue why. Poor value. It will have its day.

[retailfanmitchell019]

Burger King and Hardee's are simply not very good. There are other choices and diners are taking advantage of them.

Between the two, Burger King is worse. 10 years ago, my parents felt a little sick after having their veggie burgers. Neither me or my parents have had Burger King ever since. I find them to be the bottom of the barrel burger place. Same reasons I don't go to Subway- Domino's has better sandwiches.

As for Carl's Jr., I find their main problem to be service. They tend to get orders wrong. Years ago, I took a trip up to Lake Arrowhead with my family.
One day on that trip, we stopped for lunch at a Carl's Jr. in Big Bear. My father ordered crisscut fries. Guess what they gave him? Regular fries!

Somewhat off topic, but as for Jack in the Box, I tried a Loaded Breakfast Sandwich months ago. veteran+ mentioned that Jack was owned by Ralston Purina at one time. Sounds about right- the sandwich tasted like cat food.

[storewanderer]

I do highly suggest the Wendy's breakfast sandwiches. For fast food they are really top shelf. I prefer biscuit without cheese to the croissant that comes with some odd "swiss cheese sauce" but tastes vary.

I've always thought Burger King was bottom of the barrel. One time when I was quite young and newly driving I went to a Burger King drive through late one cold night and ordered a rodeo cheeseburger. I was really hungry and pulled it out of the bag and it was super hot like a hot potato. I thought maybe I was just cold. I opened the wrapper and the burger was so microwaved it was steaming hot and I practically burnt my hands. Eventually it cooled off and it was so rubbery it was largely inedible. It probably took me 15 years before I actually consumed any food from BK again aside from a few .50 ice creams and some "free fries" during various promotions.

In 2022 I redeemed some Burger King Coupons that were quite good deals and enjoyed a couple of Whopper Jrs, fries weren't bad, but then last fall they started being closed inside again, then the coupon price rose by about 60% in later coupons so I just haven't gone back.

Your fry error with Carl's is another of the secrets to In N Out. There is one advertised fry item at In N Out: fries. Well, there are the unadvertised cheese fries or animal fries or the well fries, extra well fries, half well fries half light fries, light fries, etc., so I guess technically there are quite a few fry items at In N Out. But still, for the most part, people at In N Out just order fries and there is one fry/size and that is it. People with a special unadvertised order usually repeat themself multiple times and make sure the employee gets it right. In the case of Carls where the menu advertises 3 sizes of fries, and criss cut (now being called waffle fries), the customer expects the employee to listen to what they are saying when they order and there to not be errors.

Carl's used to have above average customer service but something has really changed at Carl's in the past decade. I thought it was pretty bad when Puzder left, obviously at the corporate level they lost talent with all that moving out of CA talk Puzder was doing given most of the strong corporate people (Carls side people) were all based there in CA, but it has gotten shockingly worse since Puzder left and they actually did move the HQ out of CA. Carls had a lot of strong talent in its CA HQ.

[veteran+]

The most thrown out food item at In & Out are the fries.

Their dumpsters are loaded with them.

I predict this cult like following of In & Out will have it's reckoning. With a very stubborn narrow minded leader at the helm and expanding from it's home territory, there is doom in the future (cult followwing or not).

[rwsandiego]

Burger King and Hardee's are simply not very good. There are other choices and diners are taking advantage of them.

Between the two, Burger King is worse. 10 years ago, my parents felt a little sick after having their veggie burgers. Neither me or my parents have had Burger King ever since. I find them to be the bottom of the barrel burger place. Same reasons I don't go to Subway- Domino's has better sandwiches.

Same thing happened to me when I ate a Whopper about five years ago. It was the first time I had eaten at a Burger King since 1999. No plans to go back.

As for Carl's Jr., I find their main problem to be service. They tend to get orders wrong. Years ago, I took a trip up to Lake Arrowhead with my family.
One day on that trip, we stopped for lunch at a Carl's Jr. in Big Bear. My father ordered crisscut fries. Guess what they gave him? Regular fries!

Oh, their service is terrible. I find their burgers to be "off." They do have good fried zucchini. Of course, when you order fried zucchini and they give you crisscut fries...

Somewhat off topic, but as for Jack in the Box, I tried a Loaded Breakfast Sandwich months ago. veteran+ mentioned that Jack was owned by Ralston Purina at one time. Sounds about right- the sandwich tasted like cat food.

Gosh, Ralston Purina hasn't owned them for years. However, the only things I like from Jack in the Box are their chicken tenders (and those are iffy), their "tacos" (in quotes because they are a completely different species than what we know to be tacos), and their egg rolls.

[jamcool]

Carl’s hasn’t been the same since Carl Karcher died.

[storewanderer]

The most thrown out food item at In & Out are the fries.

Their dumpsters are loaded with them.

I predict this cult like following of In & Out will have it's reckoning. With a very stubborn narrow minded leader at the helm and expanding from it's home territory, there is doom in the future (cult followwing or not).

In N Out needs to do something about the fries and how many are being thrown away. Better to give a larger serving to the customer in my opinion. The problem is due to the nutrition labeling on the menu they need to follow portion size calories advertised or risk being sued by someone for being given 600 calories worth of fries instead of 380 calories worth of fries as the menu board promises. I know this is a stupid excuse and there are other solutions they could apply such as more precise measurements into the fryer so one fry basket equaled 6 portions of fries or something so the mixing of batches issue would not cause waste, for instance, because 100% of each batch would be served into 6 portions.

However I think as long as In N Out sticks to its core of strong operations, fair/value pricing, higher employee wages, simple menu, corporate ownership (no franchises), and tight supply chain control they will continue to be successful.

The unknown is in these new territories if they will do the sales volumes their CA/NV units do. But if the territories have lower operating costs, they may not need to do such high volumes. On the flip side we do not know if they own a lot of the CA sites so basically have low real estate costs due to decades of property ownership in which case some of the new territories may not be that much cheaper to operate in if they are leasing.

Any idea how much of In N Out's real estate is owned vs. leased? They own the real estate on their older Reno/only Sparks site but the site that just opened in Reno they appear to lease. Their older Reno site however they bought the real estate in 2015 and leased it before that.

I say all of the above as someone who thinks Steak N Shake puts out a better burger than In N Out too. I also like their fries better and obviously their shake is better. But In N Out is very solid and for the price it charges it is an excellent value and a reliable place to go buy food when you don't want any surprises/issues. I can't say that about any other burger chain. Any other burger chain I have no idea what I may be walking into when I go to a location. But at In N Out I can rely on consistent service, consistent fair/value pricing, consistent fresh food, strong iced tea, and overall satisfaction when I leave.