Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by veteran+ »

ClownLoach wrote: October 7th, 2023, 3:21 pm
veteran+ wrote: October 7th, 2023, 12:37 pm Target does not like food. It does not respect food. I does not know food and does not want to learn.

Your suggestions are spot on and it befuddles me as to WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM!
They really do seem to like it only in high volume SuperTarget locations and apparently both of the stores by me fit the category (one is high volume, other is the single highest volume Super location in the company). They're putting a well trained employee on tending produce from open to close 7 days a week which is more than I can say for the big chains these days.

Where I think they've gone wrong is the volume code practice which nobody else in foods uses to make such drastic decisions in operations. You don't see a slow neighborhood Safeway that moves to only prepacked deli and closes the bakery if business is slow, but that's exactly how Target has operated the Super locations. It took me a while to figure out what is going on with their operation and how their decisions are made. So if a Super location is "LV" or low volume they basically cease to staff those perimeter deli and bakery areas, and don't staff produce either. "MV" gives skeleton staffing to deli and bakery which enable them to make pre-made items. "HV" means staffed bakery that can take cake orders and staffed deli that will cut meats and cheeses to order.

All this means is that they encourage sales to decline if a store moves from "HV" down to "MV" which winds up becoming permanent, and apparently there is a cutoff point where they decide to pull out the expanded assortment entirely and get rid of the equipment (de-Supering). Rarely does a store move from "MV" up to "HV". They need to just make the decision on a company wide basis as obviously someone (or a lot of someones) are still developing new processes, recipes, etc for this subset of the chain that is about 10% of their units. Open and fully staff all those departments then tweak the pricing etc. so it's profitable across the entire subset of stores instead of micromanaging the labor and shrink expense on a store by store basis. They just changed the bakery program for the better a few weeks ago as I previously mentioned, but I also saw that the two stores execute differently.

The baffling part is knowing that they're losing a fortune on the small format stores that would become drastically more productive from being remodeled to basically just the left quarter of a Super location (foods perimeter, basic household goods incl. cleaning supplies and paper products, drug, pet, and basic beauty). Most are old supermarkets anyway that generated much more revenue before (and on what was assuredly less rent than Target is paying).

They have all of the solutions available but seem to be afraid of attempting to execute them. Too much fear of the past even though there is so much potential ahead.
But.............................as far as the STs I have seen, (most recently in the Denver area) their skus are deficient. Study their facings carefully. Pavilions or Ralphs will usually have 1 facing (perhaps 2) of Betty Crocker cake flavors. Target will have 2 or 3 or 4 facings of the same flavor AND will be missing many other flavors. Perhaps the cake thing is not the best example but this practice is all over the food areas.

The store looks wonderful and full but the variety is very diminished. Buckguy is spot on about their DNA. That inflexibility does not serve them well and I guess they are willing to pay that price.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by storewanderer »

veteran+ wrote: October 8th, 2023, 7:47 am

But.............................as far as the STs I have seen, (most recently in the Denver area) their skus are deficient. Study their facings carefully. Pavilions or Ralphs will usually have 1 facing (perhaps 2) of Betty Crocker cake flavors. Target will have 2 or 3 or 4 facings of the same flavor AND will be missing many other flavors. Perhaps the cake thing is not the best example but this practice is all over the food areas.

The store looks wonderful and full but the variety is very diminished. Buckguy is spot on about their DNA. That inflexibility does not serve them well and I guess they are willing to pay that price.
That is because Target has been aggressively cutting food mix this year by reducing slow moving varieties of product. This is somewhat recent of a thing and is happening across Target. There were a few coffee/tea SKUs I used to buy there, they all got discontinued in resets done back in September range. They cut the boxed tea bag assortment by at least 50%. The coffee assortment has more space but it has this thing you describe where items that should have 1-2 facings now have 3-4 facings for the same item. The Reno Target is a Greatland store and it has long grocery aisles, almost as long as a typical grocery store. So it has plenty of space for a full grocery assortment minus service departments, and allocates enough space to grocery shelves accomplish that. So it has always had a lot of grocery SKUs (more than the Sparks Target or Carson City Target that both have "short" grocery aisles).

This goes along with their backroom simplification goals, and trying to keep the shelves more full of the most popular items. But variety goes out the window. And it continues to throw a barrier to the customer who may like to shop Target for food and keeps giving them chance after chance but even after the customer finds some redeeming qualities (like large assortment of some categories, as I did with coffee/tea), Target proceeds to become deficient by cutting mix and let the customer down who was giving them a chance.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by mbz321 »

Vaguely related, but I've seen a Target 'Autumn' commercial on TV the last week and it was pushing food (specifically their Good & Gather brand) pretty hard, with a smaller callout to decorative-type stuff. Heres a bad Youtube upload:

Definitely a change from their former ads which would usually callout national-brand items.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by storewanderer »

Target appears to desperately be trying to push food harder now because they are forecasting concerns with their general merchandise business going forward. Consumers are increasingly tapped out with all the inflation, wages aren't going up enough to cover for the expense increases, and buying general merchandise from Target is a very easy thing to cut out. So Target is desperate to get people to continue to go there and shop, so they are running ads like this, and doing Hail Mary type things like Clown is seeing in his stores where they are suddenly interested in operating a service bakery and service deli again after years of barely operating those service departments.

Whether or not any of this works or not remains to be seen.

Also their food private labels are lousy, quality is poor, reviews on the products on Target's very own website are not good in many cases. I haven't bought a number of Good & Gather items after going to the Target App and reading customer reviews. Target needs to fix quality on these private label items before promoting them. Archer Farms had good tasting products that I perceived as high quality. Market Pantry always looked like a low end/low quality label to me. Good & Gather looks worse than Market Pantry.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by Brian Lutz »

I know the Super Target store in Sandy UT has downsized their deli/bakery departments so much that they carved a big chunk out of what used to be that section and put their Starbucks in it.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by SamSpade »

veteran+ wrote: October 7th, 2023, 12:37 pm Target does not like food. It does not respect food. It does not know food and does not want to learn.

Your suggestions are spot on and it befuddles me as to WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM!
They went from Jeff Burt, a long term Kroger exec they hired away in 2017 to this guy:
https://corporate.target.com/about/purp ... rick-gomez
Definitely more of a focus on the convenience food and beverage of a classic 'big box' over a market perspective.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by SamSpade »

mbz321 wrote: October 8th, 2023, 5:41 pm Vaguely related, but I've seen a Target 'Autumn' commercial on TV the last week and it was pushing food (specifically their Good & Gather brand) pretty hard, with a smaller callout to decorative-type stuff. Heres a bad Youtube upload:

Definitely a change from their former ads which would usually callout national-brand items.
Dissecting the food products in the ad (thinking where they might be carried). I'll use the target in my hometown, the only one for hundreds of miles until that small-format Jackson, WY one opened in the former KMart space vs. my region that has PFresh (but not Super) regular stores and some small-format stores
1. Pumpkin spice coffee beans. Probably available at all stores.
2. Pumpkin spice 'favorite day' canned whipped cream.
Hometown - no as they have no refrigeration
Local stores - yes, lots of dairy cases
Local small format - yes, dairy is usually present

As noted, interesting this isn't a national brand at all. CoffeeMate is really pushing their value proposition over visiting a coffeehouse for a similar beverage right now as folks continue to adjust habits.

3. Caesar salad kit.
Hometown - no as they have no refrigeration
Local stores - yes, pFresh produce case is stocked
Local small format - probably, but may not turn over enough to be fresh
4. Butternut squash pasta sauce -
Hometown - no, only because the food at this store is basically candy, chips, gum; some shelf-stable items like coffee & tea
(store is small; it does not have a pharmacy but has the Starbucks)
Local stores - yes
Local small format - probably, but may sell out due to shelf limitations
5. Refrigerated tortellini pasta
Hometown - no as they have no refrigeration
Local stores - yes
Local small format - yes
6. Canned tomatoes, chili beans, corn. Probably available at all stores but maybe not hometown.

I am curious if some of these "deed restrictions" were at play with the hometown Target location, it shares a center with an Albertsons. Honestly though it was a small (full format) store from day one.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by storewanderer »

Pumpkin food products are also over-played at this point. Everyone is pushing pumpkin, advertising pumpkin everything. I thought last year saturated pumpkin but this year I see an even more significant saturation of pumpkin products across various retailers. At the end of the season suddenly there are gluts of many pumpkin food products, especially coffee, cookie, and refrigerated items like that creamer/whipped cream, at virtually every store.

So a Target ad pushing pumpkin related food products is another "so what" to consumers. Everyone else is pushing pumpkin too, along with too many fast food places. Starbucks owns the pumpkin space and was one of the first brands to market around pumpkin consumables with the pumpkin spice latte decades ago. Pumpkin pies at McDonalds, pumpkin frosties at Wendys now, I'm surprised nobody in the fast food space has tried a pumpkin based pancake like product at breakfast but I shouldn't give them any ideas.

What Target needs to be is more innovative in the food space and not a "me too" in order to get more customer's attention. Everyone else is pushing pumpkin. Why not push apple instead? Kroger did just that with a limited supply run of "apple themed" Private Selection items this year. This reminds me more of the type of stuff you'd see at Trader Joe's. These are on pallet displays (pre-made pallets stacked with the products at a warehouse and shipped floor ready to the store). Unfortunately or maybe in my case fortunately since this is Kroger and they are sloppy one store in my area evidently got the pallet in, saw none of these items had space on the shelf anywhere, and promptly broke the pallet down, threw REDUCED stickers on the items, filled up about 6 shopping carts with the stuff and blew it all out at 75% off right after said pallet arrived. So I was able to try most of these items. They are all really good.
https://www.supermarketnews.com/kroger/ ... e-products

I'd make some remarks on the canned chili beans, corn, etc. and say why not push more interesting center store items if you are going for a winter theme or at least like, I don't know, actual chili (perhaps with cornbread?)? They just do not get it.
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by veteran+ »

SamSpade wrote: October 9th, 2023, 4:38 pm
veteran+ wrote: October 7th, 2023, 12:37 pm Target does not like food. It does not respect food. It does not know food and does not want to learn.

Your suggestions are spot on and it befuddles me as to WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM!
They went from Jeff Burt, a long term Kroger exec they hired away in 2017 to this guy:
https://corporate.target.com/about/purp ... rick-gomez
Definitely more of a focus on the convenience food and beverage of a classic 'big box' over a market perspective.
Wrong man for the job!

:x
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Re: Target announcing closures in Portland, Ore.; Seattle, Wash.; California; Harlem

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: October 8th, 2023, 12:15 pm
veteran+ wrote: October 8th, 2023, 7:47 am

But.............................as far as the STs I have seen, (most recently in the Denver area) their skus are deficient. Study their facings carefully. Pavilions or Ralphs will usually have 1 facing (perhaps 2) of Betty Crocker cake flavors. Target will have 2 or 3 or 4 facings of the same flavor AND will be missing many other flavors. Perhaps the cake thing is not the best example but this practice is all over the food areas.

The store looks wonderful and full but the variety is very diminished. Buckguy is spot on about their DNA. That inflexibility does not serve them well and I guess they are willing to pay that price.
That is because Target has been aggressively cutting food mix this year by reducing slow moving varieties of product. This is somewhat recent of a thing and is happening across Target. There were a few coffee/tea SKUs I used to buy there, they all got discontinued in resets done back in September range. They cut the boxed tea bag assortment by at least 50%. The coffee assortment has more space but it has this thing you describe where items that should have 1-2 facings now have 3-4 facings for the same item. The Reno Target is a Greatland store and it has long grocery aisles, almost as long as a typical grocery store. So it has plenty of space for a full grocery assortment minus service departments, and allocates enough space to grocery shelves accomplish that. So it has always had a lot of grocery SKUs (more than the Sparks Target or Carson City Target that both have "short" grocery aisles).

This goes along with their backroom simplification goals, and trying to keep the shelves more full of the most popular items. But variety goes out the window. And it continues to throw a barrier to the customer who may like to shop Target for food and keeps giving them chance after chance but even after the customer finds some redeeming qualities (like large assortment of some categories, as I did with coffee/tea), Target proceeds to become deficient by cutting mix and let the customer down who was giving them a chance.
I'm not seeing the food SKU reduction in the Super locations here, only regular locations. Definitely not seeing the multiple facings issue either, but I do understand how that happens at Target (clearance items sell out well before a POG reset, so they flex to fill before the next set which can be months out). Bad execution can cause this as well, if the shelf label disappears the item likely won't get reordered. Target seems to have moved away from preprinted shelf strips with labels, and the constant price changes turn into opportunities for bad execution. I've also seen where their c-channel non-adhesive labels are pulled right off the shelf by a customer who takes the label to a employee asking for a stock check. If that label doesn't get replaced there's a good chance that item is going to go missing for a long time unless found on an exception report.

I am noticing that the regular stores are drastically expanding snack items like granola bars and such, more than doubling their space at the expense of other food SKUs. That is a trend elsewhere too, noticing Albertsons is making similar changes reducing SKUs in pasta, rice, etc. "carbs" and canned goods, and shuffling space around the aisles to expand the same bars and such.

The backroom program is not a simplification, quite the opposite. The stores receiving backroom remodels get it for two reasons. First, nearly every Target break room and office area was located at the front end behind the registers. In most locations that has become the Drive Up storage and thus requires them to relocate offices/break room to the back which means they have to rearrange the stockroom to fit it in (employees hate this because they lost their employee "express entrance" and have to use the front doors then walk all the way to the back to put away their stuff, then all the way back up front to clock in and get their assignments). Second, they need more room for shipping e-commerce orders since they've followed the same trend as other retailers and eliminated e-commerce warehouses, instead shipping from store locations. So they have to install the moving racks and different configurations for the backroom to add these two large areas to existing space. Ultimately the backroom is not simplified but made more complex due to the new specialized shelving/racking and fixtures.

I do have an observation that may explain some of the issues being reported here with Target and wildly inconsistent in-stocks. Many stores still do not have "full capacity" e-commerce shipping until they receive backroom remodels that create the staging and packing space. Orders are apparently prioritized by distance; closest store gets the order first if they have all the items available to ship it. Problem is three fold - busier urban stores are more likely to be out of an item, slower rural stores are more likely to be able to fill the orders, and those rural stores will likely ship to a larger territory. So the smaller markets or one store markets likely get far more e-commerce shipping orders than an urban area. So the in-store inventory gets decimated as it's all stocked then immediately picked off the shelves, packed and sent away. And since they are lower volume units they are left with few/no items for the in-store customer. The company doesn't immediately see the issue since a sale is a sale, in fact the rural or small market store could ultimately be seeing sales increases overall even though the in-store experience is being destroyed. My last two orders here in SoCal mysteriously were fulfilled in Flagstaff AZ, Reno, and Sparks, NV (one order from Reno, other order split into two shipments from Flagstaff and Sparks)
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