Safeway San Francisco closing Webster

[storewanderer]

Does that include supercenters, or only supermarkets? Because while I have no doubt it's #1 within Ralphs, I can't imagine this store is doing as much volume as a typical Fred Meyer that sells electronics, jewelry and other general merchandise.

The reality is Fred Meyer is not selling much electronics, jewelry, or other general merchandise anymore. It is taking a lot of space but sales are not very high. Lots of dollars tied up in inventory. The vast vast majority of their sales are food...

They aren't doing Wal Mart or even Target levels of general merchandise sales anymore or even close. The general merchandise operation of Fred Meyer would not be able to sustain itself/stand alone if it weren't for the high food volume occurring. Meijer appears to be in a similar position to me, at least in IL, but I think Meijer has less dollars tied up in general merchandise inventory.

@storewanderer - I have oftern heard that the Dayton Smith's is in the top 10 of Kroger, especially pharmacy. Any truth to that? At one point, I heard they were beating some of the largest Fred Meyer stores.

A long time ago the Dayton Smiths was one of the best Smiths in the division (mid 00's back when Smiths as a whole was floundering badly) but as time has gone on other stores have surpassed it. I think at this point both Sparks and South Meadows do higher sales volume and some stores in Las Vegas/Utah too. If they had a Marketplace Store in Dayton I think the story may be different. I've heard the pharmacy to this day is still one of the top pharmacies in the entire Kroger but I'm not sure if it is top in terms of number of prescriptions filled, top in profit, or quite what. I suspect it may be based on number of prescriptions filled.

[ClownLoach]

Yep, the Westwood Ralphs Fresh Fare is indeed over 93,000 sqft.

The spatial perspective is affected by the low ceilings and strange shape of the store (V shaped with no clear sight lines).

It is in the top 5 volume stores in all of Kroger (#1 within Ralphs).

Does that include supercenters, or only supermarkets? Because while I have no doubt it's #1 within Ralphs, I can't imagine this store is doing as much volume as a typical Fred Meyer that sells electronics, jewelry and other general merchandise.

The reality is Fred Meyer is not selling much electronics, jewelry, or other general merchandise anymore. It is taking a lot of space but sales are not very high. Lots of dollars tied up in inventory. The vast vast majority of their sales are food...

They aren't doing Wal Mart or even Target levels of general merchandise sales anymore or even close. The general merchandise operation of Fred Meyer would not be able to sustain itself/stand alone if it weren't for the high food volume occurring. Meijer appears to be in a similar position to me, at least in IL, but I think Meijer has less dollars tied up in general merchandise inventory.

The Fred Meyer situation is rather simple, in the highly populated areas they have a plethora of locations therefore each one probably delivers far less volume than one might think. Target or Walmart would never have placed so many stores so close together in the Portland or Seattle areas, and if it wasn't for high ownership of the buildings then most of these stores would have closed or downsized to a QFC size box many years ago. Meanwhile in the more remote areas they may sell more general merchandise that carries the store, but they have far less traffic than the urban stores so still not a lot of traffic. Thus its very easy to see how a store like the Westwood Ralphs that serves a massive captive population (easily in the 6 digits!) would sell far, far more than a Fred Meyer where some locations are in cities with a population of 5000 or so people. Seeing this Ralphs when it is busy - it looks like a Walmart on Black Friday back in the day. I've been in Portland area Fred Meyer stores on a weekend where they only had two registers open (besides self check) and no lines, and traffic did not seem to be much. The general merchandise areas are dead as dead gets.

[storewanderer]

The Fred Meyer situation is rather simple, in the highly populated areas they have a plethora of locations therefore each one probably delivers far less volume than one might think. Target or Walmart would never have placed so many stores so close together in the Portland or Seattle areas, and if it wasn't for high ownership of the buildings then most of these stores would have closed or downsized to a QFC size box many years ago. Meanwhile in the more remote areas they may sell more general merchandise that carries the store, but they have far less traffic than the urban stores so still not a lot of traffic. Thus its very easy to see how a store like the Westwood Ralphs that serves a massive captive population (easily in the 6 digits!) would sell far, far more than a Fred Meyer where some locations are in cities with a population of 5000 or so people. Seeing this Ralphs when it is busy - it looks like a Walmart on Black Friday back in the day. I've been in Portland area Fred Meyer stores on a weekend where they only had two registers open (besides self check) and no lines, and traffic did not seem to be much. The general merchandise areas are dead as dead gets.

What layout were those stores you saw with only 2 registers open and no lines on a weekend during the day? Was that the layout that has a separate front end for clothing and another separate front end for general merchandise? To be fair, those two areas would probably only have one cashier and that cashier may not have steady traffic but still sees some traffic. The only Fred Meyer I've seen as dead as you are describing is the one in Garden City, ID. Even the unit in Spokane they closed some years back had more traffic than the 2 registers open situation.

The food volumes Fred Meyer does around Portland are VERY high. They are impressively high considering the concentration of locations.

Fred Meyer also stands up very well against Wal Mart in some of the smaller markets and seems to do better grocery volume than Wal Mart in a lot of cases where they go head to head. The WinCo-Wal Mart-Fred Meyer competition in Oregon is pretty fierce as Wal Mart has managed to get a presence in many of the smaller markets.

[HCal]

Meanwhile in the more remote areas they may sell more general merchandise that carries the store, but they have far less traffic than the urban stores so still not a lot of traffic. Thus its very easy to see how a store like the Westwood Ralphs that serves a massive captive population (easily in the 6 digits!) would sell far, far more than a Fred Meyer where some locations are in cities with a population of 5000 or so people.

The highest grossing Kroger stores are the Fred Meyer stores in remote parts of Alaska, I think Fairbanks is #1. It's not a big city, but they get customers from all over the state. They also have a Bush shipping program to fulfill orders by plane to remote regions that may not even have road access.

They may not be selling a lot of items, but if they are selling expensive items (furniture and appliances) at inflated Alaska prices, then that may be enough to propel them to the top spot.

[ClownLoach]

The Fred Meyer situation is rather simple, in the highly populated areas they have a plethora of locations therefore each one probably delivers far less volume than one might think. Target or Walmart would never have placed so many stores so close together in the Portland or Seattle areas, and if it wasn't for high ownership of the buildings then most of these stores would have closed or downsized to a QFC size box many years ago. Meanwhile in the more remote areas they may sell more general merchandise that carries the store, but they have far less traffic than the urban stores so still not a lot of traffic. Thus its very easy to see how a store like the Westwood Ralphs that serves a massive captive population (easily in the 6 digits!) would sell far, far more than a Fred Meyer where some locations are in cities with a population of 5000 or so people. Seeing this Ralphs when it is busy - it looks like a Walmart on Black Friday back in the day. I've been in Portland area Fred Meyer stores on a weekend where they only had two registers open (besides self check) and no lines, and traffic did not seem to be much. The general merchandise areas are dead as dead gets.

What layout were those stores you saw with only 2 registers open and no lines on a weekend during the day? Was that the layout that has a separate front end for clothing and another separate front end for general merchandise? To be fair, those two areas would probably only have one cashier and that cashier may not have steady traffic but still sees some traffic. The only Fred Meyer I've seen as dead as you are describing is the one in Garden City, ID. Even the unit in Spokane they closed some years back had more traffic than the 2 registers open situation.

The food volumes Fred Meyer does around Portland are VERY high. They are impressively high considering the concentration of locations.

Fred Meyer also stands up very well against Wal Mart in some of the smaller markets and seems to do better grocery volume than Wal Mart in a lot of cases where they go head to head. The WinCo-Wal Mart-Fred Meyer competition in Oregon is pretty fierce as Wal Mart has managed to get a presence in many of the smaller markets.

Vancouver Grand Central

[storewanderer]

The Fred Meyer situation is rather simple, in the highly populated areas they have a plethora of locations therefore each one probably delivers far less volume than one might think. Target or Walmart would never have placed so many stores so close together in the Portland or Seattle areas, and if it wasn't for high ownership of the buildings then most of these stores would have closed or downsized to a QFC size box many years ago. Meanwhile in the more remote areas they may sell more general merchandise that carries the store, but they have far less traffic than the urban stores so still not a lot of traffic. Thus its very easy to see how a store like the Westwood Ralphs that serves a massive captive population (easily in the 6 digits!) would sell far, far more than a Fred Meyer where some locations are in cities with a population of 5000 or so people. Seeing this Ralphs when it is busy - it looks like a Walmart on Black Friday back in the day. I've been in Portland area Fred Meyer stores on a weekend where they only had two registers open (besides self check) and no lines, and traffic did not seem to be much. The general merchandise areas are dead as dead gets.

What layout were those stores you saw with only 2 registers open and no lines on a weekend during the day? Was that the layout that has a separate front end for clothing and another separate front end for general merchandise? To be fair, those two areas would probably only have one cashier and that cashier may not have steady traffic but still sees some traffic. The only Fred Meyer I've seen as dead as you are describing is the one in Garden City, ID. Even the unit in Spokane they closed some years back had more traffic than the 2 registers open situation.

The food volumes Fred Meyer does around Portland are VERY high. They are impressively high considering the concentration of locations.

Fred Meyer also stands up very well against Wal Mart in some of the smaller markets and seems to do better grocery volume than Wal Mart in a lot of cases where they go head to head. The WinCo-Wal Mart-Fred Meyer competition in Oregon is pretty fierce as Wal Mart has managed to get a presence in many of the smaller markets.

Vancouver Grand Central

That's interesting, that is one of the newer stores. Easily 10-15 years old by now but with how few stores Kroger has opened that is one of the newest Fred Meyers. It previously was down the road, a Fred Meyer Marketplace at Grand/4th Plain (now a Wal Mart Neighborhood Market- may not be the same building) that was a very odd store- it had a grocery department and it had an electronics department (no other general merchandise). I think they may have blocked off part of the old store or something. As far as the newer store at Grand Central goes, I've only been there in the evening and it seemed to have the expected amount of traffic in the evening. Didn't really show any signs of struggling. But the location is a little strange. Access isn't the best. Now that you call that store out as not being very busy when it should be, I wonder if performance there being that it is one of the newer stores is one of the reasons we don't see many new Fred Meyers...



On the topic of Fred Meyers in Vancouver, there is a store at 7700 NE Highway 99 that is terrible. I don't think it does much business. It is basically a Marketplace Store in Fred Meyer terms but they have added limited clothing on aisles (not actual racks), I think they are trying to emulate a Frys Marketplace/Kroger Marketplace clothing department in that store or something. This store never seems to have much traffic and the surrounding area doesn't have a great vibe. One time years ago someone I knew who had not been to Fred Meyer in many years, was up in that area, and after hearing me say so many great things about Fred Meyer he went and found one. He found that one at 7700 NE Highway 99. He was staying nearby (I wouldn't stay in that neighborhood). He was thoroughly unimpressed with the store, comparing it to an old run down Kmart, and when I suggested he find a different location to visit, it wasn't until a later trip to OR/WA that he did so.

[HCal]

"I don't think the neighbors in Westwood had much say about it when Ralphs decided to expand into the available space. Plus maybe there were other retailers proposing taking the space that could have been worse for the image of the neighborhood or something."

Oh, they did have a lot to say!

So many meetings, so many opinions, so many experts.

I'm sure they had a lot to say, but were they actually asked for input, or did they just want to talk?

My understanding is that since the space was already zoned for retail (former Best Buy) and the building has no historic designation, they didn't need any approval to expand, other than normal construction permits and such. Was this really a political issue?

[BillyGr]

The highest grossing Kroger stores are the Fred Meyer stores in remote parts of Alaska, I think Fairbanks is #1. It's not a big city, but they get customers from all over the state. They also have a Bush shipping program to fulfill orders by plane to remote regions that may not even have road access.

They may not be selling a lot of items, but if they are selling expensive items (furniture and appliances) at inflated Alaska prices, then that may be enough to propel them to the top spot.

Definitely not a surprise given the area and lack of options
Like you say, one store can have 700,000 potential customers (the approx. population of Alaska), which would not happen in any other location over such a large physical area (since it would have to cover more than one state anywhere else in the USA).

[veteran+]

"I don't think the neighbors in Westwood had much say about it when Ralphs decided to expand into the available space. Plus maybe there were other retailers proposing taking the space that could have been worse for the image of the neighborhood or something."

Oh, they did have a lot to say!

So many meetings, so many opinions, so many experts.

I'm sure they had a lot to say, but were they actually asked for input, or did they just want to talk?

My understanding is that since the space was already zoned for retail (former Best Buy) and the building has no historic designation, they didn't need any approval to expand, other than normal construction permits and such. Was this really a political issue?

I'm not sure about the politics but I would not be surprised if that was in the mix.

There were many meetings held for input from the neighborhoods that would be affected (according to friends of mine who lived there).

[storewanderer]

I'm not sure about the politics but I would not be surprised if that was in the mix.

There were many meetings held for input from the neighborhoods that would be affected (according to friends of mine who lived there).

Whatever topics came up it seems like everyone was reasonable and in the end this worked well. It is too bad that doesn't happen more often.