QT expanding to Vegas

Gas stations & convenience stores (AM/PM, 7-Eleven, etc.)
ClownLoach
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: February 12th, 2024, 11:20 pm
ClownLoach wrote: February 12th, 2024, 6:02 pm
Well it's pretty hard to see what's going on in Vegas from the megayacht in Newport harbor where they spend their time. Wonder if they're actually involved in the business, or if they're just spending the money and living the rich playboy life? I would imagine a boat like that requires a large 24/7 crew, sailing or not. Can't imagine what they live in with a boat like that...
The two brothers and some other family members are highly involved in the business... constantly developing new projects/locations.

Newport Beach to Las Vegas isn't far on their jet. Probably 45 minutes in the air, 15 minute drive to the airport.
https://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInquir ... erTxt=668T

They know how to make money on gaming operations and using the other services as a light customer draw.
And I'm sure the yacht is registered in the oceans of Nevada, along with the jet and everything else for tax purposes. They probably only have to pay property tax on whatever mega mansions they own, meanwhile their income and holdings are safe and secure in Nevada.

Makes sense, have the Limo drive them to SNA for a quick flight to Vegas and be back in time for a helluva party on the yacht that night. Must be nice.
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: February 13th, 2024, 12:19 am
storewanderer wrote: February 12th, 2024, 11:20 pm
ClownLoach wrote: February 12th, 2024, 6:02 pm
Well it's pretty hard to see what's going on in Vegas from the megayacht in Newport harbor where they spend their time. Wonder if they're actually involved in the business, or if they're just spending the money and living the rich playboy life? I would imagine a boat like that requires a large 24/7 crew, sailing or not. Can't imagine what they live in with a boat like that...
The two brothers and some other family members are highly involved in the business... constantly developing new projects/locations.

Newport Beach to Las Vegas isn't far on their jet. Probably 45 minutes in the air, 15 minute drive to the airport.
https://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInquir ... erTxt=668T

They know how to make money on gaming operations and using the other services as a light customer draw.
And I'm sure the yacht is registered in the oceans of Nevada, along with the jet and everything else for tax purposes. They probably only have to pay property tax on whatever mega mansions they own, meanwhile their income and holdings are safe and secure in Nevada.

Makes sense, have the Limo drive them to SNA for a quick flight to Vegas and be back in time for a helluva party on the yacht that night. Must be nice.
Not sure on that. They've had that one gas station in Newport Beach for quite some time. So my guess is the residential property there, they have owned for quite some time.

I assume the jet's primary base is in Nevada given that is where the business is based, I was surprised to see it registered to Terrible Herbst Inc. as opposed to a completely separate subsidiary set up for just the jet which is what some companies do now. I think they have multiple airplanes. Maybe a Terrible Herbst branded helicopter.
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by ClownLoach »

storewanderer wrote: February 13th, 2024, 12:34 am
ClownLoach wrote: February 13th, 2024, 12:19 am
storewanderer wrote: February 12th, 2024, 11:20 pm

The two brothers and some other family members are highly involved in the business... constantly developing new projects/locations.

Newport Beach to Las Vegas isn't far on their jet. Probably 45 minutes in the air, 15 minute drive to the airport.
https://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInquir ... erTxt=668T

They know how to make money on gaming operations and using the other services as a light customer draw.
And I'm sure the yacht is registered in the oceans of Nevada, along with the jet and everything else for tax purposes. They probably only have to pay property tax on whatever mega mansions they own, meanwhile their income and holdings are safe and secure in Nevada.

Makes sense, have the Limo drive them to SNA for a quick flight to Vegas and be back in time for a helluva party on the yacht that night. Must be nice.
Not sure on that. They've had that one gas station in Newport Beach for quite some time. So my guess is the residential property there, they have owned for quite some time.

I assume the jet's primary base is in Nevada given that is where the business is based, I was surprised to see it registered to Terrible Herbst Inc. as opposed to a completely separate subsidiary set up for just the jet which is what some companies do now. I think they have multiple airplanes. Maybe a Terrible Herbst branded helicopter.
I just think it's all funny. Obviously they have made an impressive amount of money from running a solid business, and they are enjoying it. I stumbled upon the mega yacht, we were having breakfast at a local restaurant and it was docked there. Apparently that was it's base of operations. Very impressive, classy and beautiful huge boat. Like I said, they obviously spent a hundred million or more on it.... Possibly much more.
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by storewanderer »

ClownLoach wrote: February 13th, 2024, 3:34 pm
storewanderer wrote: February 13th, 2024, 12:34 am
ClownLoach wrote: February 13th, 2024, 12:19 am

And I'm sure the yacht is registered in the oceans of Nevada, along with the jet and everything else for tax purposes. They probably only have to pay property tax on whatever mega mansions they own, meanwhile their income and holdings are safe and secure in Nevada.

Makes sense, have the Limo drive them to SNA for a quick flight to Vegas and be back in time for a helluva party on the yacht that night. Must be nice.
Not sure on that. They've had that one gas station in Newport Beach for quite some time. So my guess is the residential property there, they have owned for quite some time.

I assume the jet's primary base is in Nevada given that is where the business is based, I was surprised to see it registered to Terrible Herbst Inc. as opposed to a completely separate subsidiary set up for just the jet which is what some companies do now. I think they have multiple airplanes. Maybe a Terrible Herbst branded helicopter.
I just think it's all funny. Obviously they have made an impressive amount of money from running a solid business, and they are enjoying it. I stumbled upon the mega yacht, we were having breakfast at a local restaurant and it was docked there. Apparently that was it's base of operations. Very impressive, classy and beautiful huge boat. Like I said, they obviously spent a hundred million or more on it.... Possibly much more.
I think when they made the exit from the Primm properties and most of the 2000's era casinos (along with Reno gas stations) they were in a serious scale back mode but they have recovered and come back stronger than before in my opinion. They have better assets now; smaller facilities that are modern even if they are in some very odd locations.
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by arizonaguy »

storewanderer wrote: February 8th, 2024, 11:30 am They should have done this a while ago.

Maverik hasn't built many locations there and hasn't done overly well. They have a couple very high performing locations though.

One of those very high performing Maverik units is at the next exit from this first QT. However the Maverik is extremely well positioned for warehouse traffic. The QT, not so much.

Circle K has been aggressively adding locations and so is Terrible Herbst.

The Circle K units are high traffic.

Terrible Herbst is really low traffic and they survive on gaming revenue and extremely high gas and store pricing. The Terrible Herbst stores are very very nicely finished inside (they spend a lot of money on flashy signs, nice tile work, and such).

There is a Shell operator called Green Valley Grovery owned by an investment group and also has been rapidly adding units and they follow a similar strategy to Terrible Herbst.

7 Eleven has also been building a few new stores.

AMPM is completely stagnant and shrinking.

Rebel (Anabi) is a mess of old stores, some Arcos, some unbranded, some they've even added 7 Eleven stores to. Just a mess. In the 90s Rebel with 76 at the time ran by far the highest volume units in the market and grew into the 00s..

The gas station field is very crowded in Las Vegas. QT should have done this expansion sooner. It will probably still work out but it will be more challenging to pick up the right sites.
I spent some time in Vegas over the last few days (mostly the non-touristy areas) and did observe this. It's a far cry from Phoenix where it's essentially high volume Circle K / high volume QT and a bunch of low volume independents with a few AMPMs and Minute Marts sprinkled in.

Terrible's gas pricing was, well, Terrible. I guess it's a good deal if you get a car wash with it (a lot of their locations had car washes) but otherwise, oof. Also it appeared that traffic in those stores was non-existent. I guess insane pricing will do that.

Rebel seemed to be the most common non Terrible Herbst operator and they looked a lot like Circle K did in Phoenix before QT entered the market with their random stores of various ages and conditions. Quick Trip entering Phoenix was great as it forced Circle K to up their game (Circle K has replaced dozens of older sites with new larger sites with better offerings).

The problem in Las Vegas is that there didn't seem to be a number of viable sites that don't already have an existing operator on them.
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by storewanderer »

arizonaguy wrote: February 22nd, 2024, 6:04 am
storewanderer wrote: February 8th, 2024, 11:30 am They should have done this a while ago.

Maverik hasn't built many locations there and hasn't done overly well. They have a couple very high performing locations though.

One of those very high performing Maverik units is at the next exit from this first QT. However the Maverik is extremely well positioned for warehouse traffic. The QT, not so much.

Circle K has been aggressively adding locations and so is Terrible Herbst.

The Circle K units are high traffic.

Terrible Herbst is really low traffic and they survive on gaming revenue and extremely high gas and store pricing. The Terrible Herbst stores are very very nicely finished inside (they spend a lot of money on flashy signs, nice tile work, and such).

There is a Shell operator called Green Valley Grovery owned by an investment group and also has been rapidly adding units and they follow a similar strategy to Terrible Herbst.

7 Eleven has also been building a few new stores.

AMPM is completely stagnant and shrinking.

Rebel (Anabi) is a mess of old stores, some Arcos, some unbranded, some they've even added 7 Eleven stores to. Just a mess. In the 90s Rebel with 76 at the time ran by far the highest volume units in the market and grew into the 00s..

The gas station field is very crowded in Las Vegas. QT should have done this expansion sooner. It will probably still work out but it will be more challenging to pick up the right sites.
I spent some time in Vegas over the last few days (mostly the non-touristy areas) and did observe this. It's a far cry from Phoenix where it's essentially high volume Circle K / high volume QT and a bunch of low volume independents with a few AMPMs and Minute Marts sprinkled in.

Terrible's gas pricing was, well, Terrible. I guess it's a good deal if you get a car wash with it (a lot of their locations had car washes) but otherwise, oof. Also it appeared that traffic in those stores was non-existent. I guess insane pricing will do that.

Rebel seemed to be the most common non Terrible Herbst operator and they looked a lot like Circle K did in Phoenix before QT entered the market with their random stores of various ages and conditions. Quick Trip entering Phoenix was great as it forced Circle K to up their game (Circle K has replaced dozens of older sites with new larger sites with better offerings).

The problem in Las Vegas is that there didn't seem to be a number of viable sites that don't already have an existing operator on them.
It will be interesting to see how Quik Trip handles the real estate situation in Las Vegas. To get sites as large as they need, they will need to put multiple parcels together. I'm watching their Denver build out; it is moving along... Chicago is going a lot slower... I think the situation in Chicago is similar to Las Vegas as far as finding sites.

Maverik entered Reno around the same time as Las Vegas and has more stores in Reno area than they have around Las Vegas. From what I see of Maverik in Las Vegas their sites are mixed performance-wise.

There are odd sections of Las Vegas with varying situations. I was surprised when I stayed up in the NW Corner of Las Vegas, there was no Circle K anywhere up there... they were just like missing from an entire slice like 1/6 of NW Las Vegas metro that has quite a bit of new development.

I also think had Speedway stayed an independent company they would have acquired Rebel as Anabi Oil is heavily involved with Marathon, and all of those would have converted into Speedway sites.

Then if you go down to SW Las Vegas there is a stretch of Blue Diamond that has like 2 less than 2 year old Circle Ks and a third Circle K that is less than a decade old.

Rebel (all are former 76 sites; 76 terminated its branding agreement with Rebel and left Nevada at one point entirely it appears they had to do that to get away from Rebel, notice they returned... read between the lines on that...) has been a mess; when Anabi bought Rebel (after the 76 termination), they got with Tesoro (Marathon now) for fuel and converted a bunch of sites to Arco and were cash/debit fee only and that obviously did not work well at all in a market full of tourists. Then they started to accept credit in the store but not for fuel- again- did not work well in a market full of tourists. Now Rebel at least accepts credit again but their locations seem neglected, some have converted to having 7-11 branding... just a mess. I'd take the Terrible stores over Rebel any day. Rebel even under Anabi Oil is a terrible operator. I am not sure when the last time Rebel/Anabi built a new store in Las Vegas was, or if they've built any new stores... I think they've taken over some other old run down sites.

Then some areas you see some 7-Elevens including some new less than 3 year old 7-Elevens. There are also about 5 Speedways (all former Albertsons stations) and maybe 10 Maveriks.
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by jamcool »

QT in Phoenix is mostly building along the freeway system-for example there will be two QT sites at the 91st Ave/I-10 interchange- one just N of I-10 and another S of I-10 (sharing a site with McDonald’s and Starbucks)
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Re: QT expanding to Vegas

Post by arizonaguy »

jamcool wrote: February 23rd, 2024, 7:03 am QT in Phoenix is mostly building along the freeway system-for example there will be two QT sites at the 91st Ave/I-10 interchange- one just N of I-10 and another S of I-10 (sharing a site with McDonald’s and Starbucks)
QT also doesn't seem to mind buying plots in existing shopping centers or even buying buildings to tare down and convert to one of their locations. They have been very aggressive in securing their sites.

However, Phoenix really doesn't have anyone else building new Cstores right now other than QT, Circle K, an expanding chain called Minute Mart (not Minit Mart) that sells Shell branded fuel, and a small handful of new construction 7-11s.
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