Lack of Whole Foods North County San Diego

[magowan]

There was a WF in Encinitas along the 101 that closed in 2015.

Aside from that the furthest north location is in Del Mar off the 5 and a smallish one at that.

I’m surprised there’s nothing at all near Carlsbad given the income and health focus of the market.

Is Jimbos that strong? I’d figure at this point Whole Foods is mainstream enough in big metros that it’s more of a “good grocery” than health food place. Like what a Pavilions used to be.

Lazy Acres seems to do fine now in Encinitas but pricing is higher than WF.

Sprouts is everywhere but price value isn’t great vs what WF offers esp for nice meats, seafood, gourmet cooking items.

I guess the legacy Sprouts + Jimbos presence is filling the need vs other metros that didn’t have much like that. But maybe there’s more to it.

[storewanderer]

It feels like there has been competition for sites among smaller/other operators and Whole Foods has never found the site there to put up a nice, large, flagship style store.

With regards to Jimbo's, I think they have a very loyal customer base. Maybe sometime in the pre Amazon era, Whole Foods would have bought them out.

Those may be some of Sprouts best stores too. If they run them the way much of Sprouts is run lately, that won't be the case for long. But profits are at a record level and stock is at record levels so I do not know what I'm talking about when it comes to Sprouts.

[ClownLoach]

Sprouts does very well up there. The Carlsbad store on the border with Oceanside near the old mall is allegedly one of their top 5 stores.

Whole Foods was supposed to be opening in Carmel Mountain but that site fell through.

Whole Foods is in Del Mar just south of Encinitas and does marginally well. The Gelsons across the street does exceptionally well.

Also do not underestimate the combination of Frazier Farms in both Oceanside and Vista which are both very busy and affordable stores, along with the legendary Seaside Market in Cardiff. Seaside expanded a few years ago and is jam packed with customers during every open hour. People flock there for Cardiff Crack. If you don't know what that is I suggest you go find out in person.

Between Sprouts, Frazier, Lazy Acres, Jimbos, Gelsons, and Seaside - that North SD market is pretty much saturated. Whole Foods couldn't get a quality location because of the intense competition, took a high rent oddball with parking garage, and died fast.

Whole Foods has struggled to get into this area and Temecula valley. Their new Murrieta site is officially dead, and even worse was taken by Sprouts who already has one of their worst operated stores about two miles south. Carmel Mountain fell through, and Oceanside fell through (was going into the closed Toys R Us but Burlington somehow wound up with the site). The closed Stater Bros that was a oversize Lucky is going to be Nordstrom Rack. This is one of those areas where Albertsons dominates conventional stores and won't close anything even though they have twice the store count they probably could get away with. Nowhere for Whole Foods to go.

And on top of all that, there are an abundance of quality roadside produce stands all over the area.

And since Whole Foods runs such a crappy, overpriced operation these days if they did find a site they would be killed by all of the above (Frazier, Seaside Jimbos, etc.) Everyone already has a superior alternative to WFM.

[storewanderer]

The old Whole Foods pre-Amazon would have found a way into this area and been successful. It probably would have involved acquisition.

This new Amazon Whole Foods- frankly, the area isn't missing anything with it not there. And those other smaller players - yes they are expensive- but they probably also have better pricing than the current pricing at Whole Foods.

[ClownLoach]

The old Whole Foods pre-Amazon would have found a way into this area and been successful. It probably would have involved acquisition.

This new Amazon Whole Foods- frankly, the area isn't missing anything with it not there. And those other smaller players - yes they are expensive- but they probably also have better pricing than the current pricing at Whole Foods.

Frazier Farms is arguably the best priced in the market. They don't have frills like a dumb bar serving 6 organic chicken wings for $24.95 with a small side of sweet potato fries. But they have solid produce and a vitamin department WFM can only dream of.

You're dead on, there is no need for today's lame WFM operation when there are much better options. And if someone really wants WFM then go to Del Mar or La Jolla, they're just a few minutes down I-5.

If you told me Seaside Market outperformed every WFM in SoCal, I would believe you. They slaughtered that Encinitas location.

Also allegedly WFM is going into Downtown San Diego, not far from where Target pulled out after deciding not to open a fully built out, brand new small format.

https://www.sandiegoville.com/2024/02/w ... g.html?m=1

[storewanderer]

The old Whole Foods pre-Amazon would have found a way into this area and been successful. It probably would have involved acquisition.

This new Amazon Whole Foods- frankly, the area isn't missing anything with it not there. And those other smaller players - yes they are expensive- but they probably also have better pricing than the current pricing at Whole Foods.

Frazier Farms is arguably the best priced in the market. They don't have frills like a dumb bar serving 6 organic chicken wings for $24.95 with a small side of sweet potato fries. But they have solid produce and a vitamin department WFM can only dream of.

You're dead on, there is no need for today's lame WFM operation when there are much better options. And if someone really wants WFM then go to Del Mar or La Jolla, they're just a few minutes down I-5.

If you told me Seaside Market outperformed every WFM in SoCal, I would believe you. They slaughtered that Encinitas location.

Also allegedly WFM is going into Downtown San Diego, not far from where Target pulled out after deciding not to open a fully built out, brand new small format.

https://www.sandiegoville.com/2024/02/w ... g.html?m=1

I see something about a new Sprouts in Downtown San Diego in that article too. Is that replacing the Jimbo's that closed during COVID?

[ClownLoach]

The old Whole Foods pre-Amazon would have found a way into this area and been successful. It probably would have involved acquisition.

This new Amazon Whole Foods- frankly, the area isn't missing anything with it not there. And those other smaller players - yes they are expensive- but they probably also have better pricing than the current pricing at Whole Foods.

Frazier Farms is arguably the best priced in the market. They don't have frills like a dumb bar serving 6 organic chicken wings for $24.95 with a small side of sweet potato fries. But they have solid produce and a vitamin department WFM can only dream of.

You're dead on, there is no need for today's lame WFM operation when there are much better options. And if someone really wants WFM then go to Del Mar or La Jolla, they're just a few minutes down I-5.

If you told me Seaside Market outperformed every WFM in SoCal, I would believe you. They slaughtered that Encinitas location.

Also allegedly WFM is going into Downtown San Diego, not far from where Target pulled out after deciding not to open a fully built out, brand new small format.

https://www.sandiegoville.com/2024/02/w ... g.html?m=1

I see something about a new Sprouts in Downtown San Diego in that article too. Is that replacing the Jimbo's that closed during COVID?

Horton Plaza, where the ill-fated Jimbos opened, has been mostly demolished and is being rebuilt as mostly offices with some retail. Sprouts is supposed to be part of the new development but I think it will be in a different part of the property. Jimbos was on an upper level and I only was in it once, beautiful store but I have no idea how one would get to the main parking garage with a cart of groceries. Too many weird stairs and corridors. They apparently had their own dedicated lot but I never located it. They were suing over the failed store, blaming the poor access and parking. I think there were different plans for the revamp of the center which fell through about the time they opened.

[magowan]

Good info, forgot about how Frazier has the far north end covered and Cardiff handling the coast. Leaves inner Carlsbad or Encinitas as the white space.

Amazes me the Gelsons in Del Mar is a strong performer. It's typically a ghost town inside and there's rarely activity in the sushi / to-go area.

The fresh meats/seafood are pretty unremarkable, more like what you'd find in a 'good' Vons. Same for the cheese and liquor. Guess they have enough overpriced shelf stable items in the center of the store to make it do well.

Speaking of Vons, the Solana Beach location got the upgraded Pavilion's like meats and seafood (Snake River, etc) in the last month.

[ClownLoach]

Good info, forgot about how Frazier has the far north end covered and Cardiff handling the coast. Leaves inner Carlsbad or Encinitas as the white space.

Amazes me the Gelsons in Del Mar is a strong performer. It's typically a ghost town inside and there's rarely activity in the sushi / to-go area.

The fresh meats/seafood are pretty unremarkable, more like what you'd find in a 'good' Vons. Same for the cheese and liquor. Guess they have enough overpriced shelf stable items in the center of the store to make it do well.

Speaking of Vons, the Solana Beach location got the upgraded Pavilion's like meats and seafood (Snake River, etc) in the last month.

I think the standards for what makes a "good store" for Gelsons are pretty low in general. None of them are ever all that busy, but they have a loyal customer base that buys full baskets at high, high prices. I've never been impressed with their meat or seafood in any of their stores, some locations like Irvine never even had a service case although they did sometimes have a butcher behind the low case of prepackaged meats. They also usually outsource the bakery counter. Their produce is usually both spectacular in quality as well as even more spectacular in how high the prices are. The deli seems to specialize in dishes that I am not interested in, like fancy pasta salads and smoked fish. It is a strange store that just does not appeal to me, nor a store I can afford to shop.

The Gelsons customer skews older and very rich. I should warn I might be mixing up the Del Mar and the La Jolla Gelsons as to which is the top in their relatively new SD County market, but they both were considered "strong" while the La Costa location was "weak" and problematic from day one. La Costa was physically downsized by Gelsons because of its low volume, a gymnastics place took over about a third of the store. When Haggen had all these sites, Del Mar was their best store in California (not saying much).

Also, I believe Gelsons acquires their sites whenever possible. I believe they even own the Irvine location despite being an Irvine Company property (it isn't unprecedented for them to sell sites, Home Depot owns their own building at Woodbury Town Center too). So they have a pretty decent private equity owner that self finances the costs of acquiring these buildings and doesn't try to bleed the stores of cash by charging them rent like an Apollo or Blackstone type owner would. Thus the stores do not need a lot of volume to become very, very profitable with customers who like to buy weird $15 jars of spaghetti sauce and $13 pints of fancy ice cream along with a $100 floral arrangement to put in the foyer this week.

[ClownLoach]

Speaking of Vons, the Solana Beach location got the upgraded Pavilion's like meats and seafood (Snake River, etc) in the last month.

I think they will probably do a light remodel and make it a Pavilions along with La Costa and possibly a few select Vons and Albertsons in the market. Pavilions had a rough start in San Diego County with that one location in Carmel Valley that didn't perform immediately after converting, but then the La Jolla store seems to be a firecracker. Best meat and seafood department Albertsons Cos. has anywhere in California, and the only location I've seen that is making real scratch breads that someone mentioned here might be coming from some of the NorCal Safeway operations like what was a fabulous sourdough. With the success of La Jolla which created a lot of positive buzz for the brand, now they can go out and selectively convert more stores to the format. Solana Beach is ideal because of its high visibility from the freeway, a billboard of sorts for the relatively new Pavilions brand in San Diego. Looking back at pictures as old as 5 years ago it seems that Solana Beach also had received the expanded organics assortment from Pavilions. Makes sense to finish the job and change the sign and decor. Only question is how the liquor performs as that is the keystone of the new Pavilions brand; if the store can't sustain sales in the expanded department then it does not get (or keep) the Pavilions nameplate.